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  1. #1
    The Bat Man highlander's Avatar
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    Default How To Discern Extraverted vs Introverted Intuition

    I have noticed that the Kiersey Jung Test could give better results on Ni vs. Ne. People are tending to score high on both or low on both including not as much differentiation as I'd hoped. I would like to try and improve them. These are the respective lists of questions which are indicative of each function being used. Any thoughts or opinions on how to improve them?

    Ne
    I notice patterns as they surface and trust they will go somewhere
    I enjoy playing with random interconnections and patterns
    I keep following tangents and new ideas without limiting myself to one
    I am constantly generating new ideas and creative ways of doing things
    I wonder what else is possible
    I grasp what is going on behind the scenes and under the surface
    I consider possibilities that I may or may not act on
    I play hunches and trust my intuition
    I think about the present and how it affects the future
    I'm good at picking up at emerging patterns

    Ni
    I try to foresee the implications and likely effects
    I come up with new ways of seeing things
    When solving problems, I frequently have an "aha" moment which seems to come out of nowhere
    I'm good at synthesizing a lot of information, understanding complex patterns and arriving at insights
    I develop a fundamental change in the approach or underlying assumptions
    I think about the long range future
    If I get a new insight, it energizes me
    I search for the most important patterns and themes to understand meaning and significance
    I envision solutions to problems that others haven't yet recognized
    I come up with new ideas or perspectives by synthesizing various opposing points of view

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  2. #2
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I've found Ne is great at magpie-ing. That is finding distinct tidbits of info that are appropriate to the situation at hand and it recalls well where it got them. Ni is more of a mulcher. Lots of ideas and sources go into the mix to be transformed into a new product.

    Ni is great at recognizing what could be and helping with creating vision for what could be. It's why I like teaching grade four, five and six, where I can impact what is possible at a formative time, and also affect how students see themselves. Ne users would be the people who see what is and how it could be maximized or used in novel ways. They would be better with adults or older students who are more resistant to change or for making impacting changes in a person or group dynamic quickly by optimizing what's already there. It develops what is, rather than transforming or fundamentally changing. Ne can create instant results. Ni ideas require more time and would be more likely to focus on underlying principles or a grand vision. Ne is impressive but limited. Ni changes the world in a big way when it works, but is cumbersome, sometimes impractical and much slower.

    Most ni theorists or writers need some kind of person who can popularize their ideas. Ne users make great editors etc and have a great sense of where something will fir best or be most successful.


    These are just a few thoughts or observations made between the ni Doms and ne Doms I know personally. Don't know how much aux function influences it though.
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  3. #3
    Parody Parrot
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Ni
    I envision solutions to problems that others haven't yet recognized
    So true. The downside to this is that others will sometimes never even know what tragedies you just prevented. *whines*

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  4. #4
    darkened dreams Ravenetta's Avatar
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    Thanks for this thread. It is useful to spend more time on the perceiving functions. It's interesting how most discussions are about judging functions. I'm definitely in the position of scoring high for both Ni and Ne, and so not having a clear sense of the distinctions. I also wonder how to keep N descriptions clearly separate from T. For a long time I saw the N functions as analytical and some of the literature and description implies this, but it is important to be sure its intangible nature doesn't make the descriptions rely on an analytical framework. Both have to do with the subconscious processing, and so lack deliberate analytical processing.

    I think the emphasis on the present for Ne and the future, or longer-term for Ni is a good distinction. Perhaps there is also a contrast in how personalized the process is. Since Ne is external, it may be more likely to play with patterns without personal relevance. The connections don't require individual meaning, they aren't tied to an inner construct of reality.

    I'm also curious about whether there is a difference in the types of material that are processed. Do both process external events equally or is one more internally directed shaping the sense of self. Jung refers to Ne being a function used in politics and gaining a sense of what is going on in external systems in the world. However, I think some of the most prominent conspiracy theorists and such who focus entirely on the external world, are using Ni to construct a singular vision of what is happening. Some of the examples Jung uses for Ni has to do with having an intuition about the individual's own inner workings, so it becomes part of the concept of self. Does Ne have a way of perceiving and defining Self that is distinct from Ni? The question is how does Ni and Ne perceive external events vs. how does Ni and Ne perceive inner workings of Self?

    How do both functions approach imagination? Some people construct inner worlds of imagination, like Tolkien, and some people get fragmentary imaginative impressions. Would the more complex version be Ni or could it be Ne? Or another function? The way two perceiving functions interact? Or would the complex inner connected world of that type of imagination be a way of internalizing the systems Ne perceives? Or is it exactly an example of Ni? My sister creates complex imaginary worlds with backstories, but they are about other characters and ideas that are an extension of her personality, but not specially defining her as a person. My imagination is more sudden impressions that are unplanned, but are very individual about a single character I identify with, or about specific, individual emotions another person experiences. My imagination is not system-based. A good question to add is what is the difference between Ni and Ne imagination?

    What is the role of certitude between the two functions? Can both have varying degrees, or is Ni more certain in its impressions and Ne more open-ended? That would be the first assumption, but Ne could have certitude in the short-term, but less in the long-term, and Ni less certitude until its process is completed?

    Anyone have ideas on any of these points?
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Smilephantomhive's Avatar
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    Maybe make a question about divergence (Ne) and convergence (Ni).


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    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    For Ni and Se types, do you ever find your Ni and Se in a sort of "tug-o-war?"

    I see it frequently with my Ne/Si axis. Having some semblance of Si I often find myself wanting to master something like some kind of skill or some particular bit of knowledge. I can 'see' myself going 'all-in' and often conjure up, ahead of time, the ways I would go about doing that. I know I have to stay dedicated to it and eventually I will become much better at it. But somewhere in the process I get disinterested (typically bored or distracted) and I find something else I want to 'master.' I also get really excited at first but the excitement doesn't always persist. I always find myself, whether I like it or not, back in a place where I'm not devoted to a particular path but rather at the point of convergence between many paths and I casually stroll each of those paths at my leisure.

  7. #7
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    @ZNP-TBA

    Im not a ni dom, but I think of it less like a tug of war, more like a two way valve. When I think of tug of war, I think of resistence or struggle. I think there is more of a crossing guard aspect. Put the stop sign up for one, so the other can pass. Then repeat. They join eventually on the other side.
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  8. #8
    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    @ZNP-TBA

    Im not a ni dom, but I think of it less like a tug of war, more like a two way valve. When I think of tug of war, I think of resistence or struggle. I think there is more of a crossing guard aspect. Put the stop sign up for one, so the other can pass. Then repeat. They join eventually on the other side.
    For you the divergence would be more significant with Ti and Fe wouldn't it?

    I think my Ti/Fe work more like you describe which would make sense being aux and tert functions. For me though, the Ne/Si is a bit of a struggle since my Si impulses are typically overridden by Ne habits.
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  9. #9
    The Bat Man highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilephantomhive View Post
    Maybe make a question about divergence (Ne) and convergence (Ni).
    I had the same thought. What would the questions be - in a simple way that won't confuse people?

    Quote Originally Posted by labyrinthine View Post
    Both have to do with the subconscious processing, and so lack deliberate analytical processing.
    Do you think there are questions that could be asked related to this and the differences between introverted and extraverted orientation?

    Quote Originally Posted by labyrinthine View Post
    I think the emphasis on the present for Ne and the future, or longer-term for Ni is a good distinction.
    Interestingly, I weakened the focus on this because what I found is the INFJs did not have the same type of long term future orientation as much as the INTJs and so the questions were not working. I'm still a little torn on this. As an INTJ, I am totally about the long term and it is a distinguishing characteristic of all my thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by labyrinthine View Post
    Perhaps there is also a contrast in how personalized the process is. Since Ne is external, it may be more likely to play with patterns without personal relevance. The connections don't require individual meaning, they aren't tied to an inner construct of reality.

    I'm also curious about whether there is a difference in the types of material that are processed. Do both process external events equally or is one more internally directed shaping the sense of self. Jung refers to Ne being a function used in politics and gaining a sense of what is going on in external systems in the world. However, I think some of the most prominent conspiracy theorists and such who focus entirely on the external world, are using Ni to construct a singular vision of what is happening. Some of the examples Jung uses for Ni has to do with having an intuition about the individual's own inner workings, so it becomes part of the concept of self. Does Ne have a way of perceiving and defining Self that is distinct from Ni? The question is how does Ni and Ne perceive external events vs. how does Ni and Ne perceive inner workings of Self?
    What questions can you think we could ask related to this for Ni vs Ne?

    Quote Originally Posted by labyrinthine View Post
    How do both functions approach imagination? Some people construct inner worlds of imagination, like Tolkien, and some people get fragmentary imaginative impressions. Would the more complex version be Ni or could it be Ne? Or another function? The way two perceiving functions interact? Or would the complex inner connected world of that type of imagination be a way of internalizing the systems Ne perceives? Or is it exactly an example of Ni? My sister creates complex imaginary worlds with backstories, but they are about other characters and ideas that are an extension of her personality, but not specially defining her as a person. My imagination is more sudden impressions that are unplanned, but are very individual about a single character I identify with, or about specific, individual emotions another person experiences. My imagination is not system-based. A good question to add is what is the difference between Ni and Ne imagination?
    That's an interesting angle. Gets back to the convergence/divergence thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by labyrinthine View Post
    What is the role of certitude between the two functions? Can both have varying degrees, or is Ni more certain in its impressions and Ne more open-ended? That would be the first assumption, but Ne could have certitude in the short-term, but less in the long-term, and Ni less certitude until its process is completed?
    It does have more certitude for me. I do rely on these intuitions. They come in the forum of a conclusion of sorts and it almost feels judgy to me. It would be helpful if someone who experiences Ne would comment on how it works for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZNP-TBA View Post
    For Ni and Se types, do you ever find your Ni and Se in a sort of "tug-o-war?"

    I see it frequently with my Ne/Si axis. Having some semblance of Si I often find myself wanting to master something like some kind of skill or some particular bit of knowledge. I can 'see' myself going 'all-in' and often conjure up, ahead of time, the ways I would go about doing that. I know I have to stay dedicated to it and eventually I will become much better at it. But somewhere in the process I get disinterested (typically bored or distracted) and I find something else I want to 'master.' I also get really excited at first but the excitement doesn't always persist. I always find myself, whether I like it or not, back in a place where I'm not devoted to a particular path but rather at the point of convergence between many paths and I casually stroll each of those paths at my leisure.
    I don't know if it is a tug of war but this raises an interesting possibility in the line of questioning in whether or not it is reasonable to ask questions which are related to using tandem functions vs. just focusing on the one function such as Ni or Ne itself. The assumption would be there that we actually do use functions in tandem which I know is the theory but how this actually manifests, I have not seen a lot written about.

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  10. #10
    cute lil war dog Bush's Avatar
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    One question to ask, using these lists as one anchor of sorts -- how many Ne'ers here actually relate to each of the items in t he Ne list? In fact, what about Ne'ers and the items in the Ni list? (If a lot of them relate to a particular Ni item, then that item is likely not measuring what it's trying to measure.)

    Apply to the Ni folks as well of course
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