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Five Temperaments test!

Eric B

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Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,621
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
548
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I forgot; have you ever explained why you see NF/NT that way (and it wasn't exactly "the other way around" as you said NF could be either Choleric or Melancholic.

I earlier explained why the Supine was a separate temperament: http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...6956-five-temperaments-test-4.html#post543460

All of this is all about the two-factor matrix. For original temperament, it was I/E vs people-task. Interaction Styles directly fits this, so there does not seem to be any dispute there which style is which temperament:

IST/INJ (Chart the Course) Melancholic
EST/ENJ (In Charge) Choleric
ISF/INP (Behind The Scenes) Phlegmatic*
ESF/ENP (Get Things Going) Sanguine
"Expressive Behavior": High=E; Low=I
"Responsive Behavior": High="Informative" (F and/or P); Low="Directive" (T and/or J)

the conative area is the same temperament matrix, but in another area of personal interaction: leadership and action, instead of social skills. This matrix is overlayed over the other one, so that each of 16 combinations shares a temperament from both matrices. So E/I is no longer the "expressive" factor in this new matrix.
Keirsey's Cooperative/Pragmatic fits that better, with the Sanguine and Choleric is "pragmatic", (more "expressive" in action), and Phlegmatic and Melancholic as "cooperative'; which is slower to action, trying to work within either the social structure, or maintain harmony. Then, structure vs motive is the other dimension, with Sanguine and Phlegmatic as more "motive" focused (another kind of "people"-focus), and Melancholic and Choleric as Structure-focused (which is more about tasks).

If NF=Choleric, NT=Phlegmatic, then it would be the Phlegmatic that would share "Structure" focus with the Melancholic. Structure would then represent the conative counterpart to "introversion", since Melancholic and Phlegmatic were both "introverted". Choleric and Sanguine would then share Motive-focus, which would become the conative counterpart to their common "extraversion" (expressiveness). NT would fall into the "low Sublime" category along with SP, which would equate to "pragmatism" which would then be the conative coupterpart to "people-focus", shared by Phlegmatic and Sanguine. Meanwhile, the Choleric and Melancholic would share "cooperative" (which would then equate to Kant's "Sublime" recognition, and the conative counterpart to "task-focus"). But none of this makes sense, now. Choleric is definitely not "cooperative", nor "motive-focused"; and this is perhaps the biggest proof that NF can't be Choleric! For the indirect Control temperaments (eC≠wC), what Keirsey basically ended up doing is reversing the "high" scores, and substituting making the Choleric high want(motive)/low express(cooperative), and the Phlegmatic high express (pragmatic)/low want (structure).
A similar problem results if NF is Melancholic. Melancholic is by all accounts a very "structure" (task)-focused temperament, but NF is Motive (people)-focused. SJ is cooperative, but Choleric is definitely pragmatic.

Hence the best fit is:
SJ (Guardian/Stabilizer) Melancholic
SP (Artisan/Improviser) Sanguine
NF (Idealist/Catalyst) Phlegmatic*
NT (Rational/Theorist) Choleric in Control
"Expressive Behavior": High="Pragmatic" (T and/or P) Low="Cooperative" (F and/or J)
"Responsive Behavior": High="Focus on Motive"(F or P); Low="Focus on Structure"(T or J)

* In both matrices, Supine is derived by realizing that Phlegmatic is really moderate in both dimensions (hence why it is a tricky fit for either the "exciteable" NF or the logical NT), and that the true low expressive/high responsive is Supine (which provides the NF with its energy).
 

katerp

New member
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
33
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Choleric - 19
Phlegmatic - 46
Melancholy - 67
Sanguine - 35
Supine - 56
 

Silent Stars

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
410
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Choleric=33
Phlegmatic=58
Melancholic=65
Sanguine=22
Supine=67
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
4,602
From this test, I appear to be most Supine, followed by a tie between Phlegmatic and Melancholy, then Choleric, then Sanguine. Could this by why I have a hard time typing myself?
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
6,880
MBTI Type
xNFP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Self test (spontaneously done, thinking 1-3 seconds per answer)

Choleric: 47
Phlegmatic: 35
Melancholy: 69
Sanguine: 58
Supine: 60

Heh, my initial thinking was correct - Supine Melancholy
 

Eric B

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Messages
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sp/sx
Supine-Melancholy combinations could probably be either IxFJ. So both of you might be ISFJ. Disney, what type were you wearing before? What's making you think ISTJ now?
 
G

garbage

Guest
Well,

CHOLERIC: 56
PHLEGMATIC: 52
MELANCHOLY: 55
SANGUINE: 43
SUPINE: 60

This is pretty much exactly the opposite that I usually score, though I don't really know anything about the classic temperaments. Choleric/Sanguine tends to describe me well.

I think, in this test, the Choleric and Sanguine traits tend to balance each other--a Choleric is disciplined and somewhat decisive but insensitive toward others, where Sanguine loves to motivate people but is somewhat undisciplined and spontaneous. Here's the breakdown:

CHOLERIC: 56
4__Optimistic
4__Goal Oriented
4__Self Confident
3__Activist
2__Domineering
2__Aggressive
5__Leadership Ability
4__Tenacious
4__Strong Willed
2__Hot Tempered
1__Insensitive
2__Unsympathetic
4__Determined
3__Decisive
1__Sarcastic
3__Practical
4__Outgoing
4__Self-Sufficient

PHLEGMATIC: 52
2__Very Quiet
1__Pessimistic
1__Introvert
4__Not Aggressive
4__Indecisive
2__Slow & Lazy
5__Easy Going
4__Calm & Cool
4__Efficient
4__Dependable
2__Witty, Dry Humor
2__Teases
1__Selfish
4__Orderly Habits
3__Stingy
2__Stubborn
2__Spectator in life
5__Works well under pressure

MELANCHOLY: 55
4__Deep feeling
4__Sensitive
1__Self-Centered
3__Easily Offended
4__Faithful Friend
4__Self-Sacrificing
1__Likes Behind the Scenes
2__Suspicious
5__Introspective
5__Perfectionist
4__Harbors Resentment
4__Creative
1__Moody
2__Critical
4__Indecisive
1__Pessimistic
4__Idealistic
2__Introvert

SANGUINE: 43
1__Emotional
1__Difficulty keeping resolutions
4__Compassionate
1__Impractical
3__Easily Discouraged
1__Undisciplined
2__Weak-Willed
3__Talkative
3__Enjoyable
3__Friendly
4__Restless
3__Difficulty Concentrating
2__Lives in present
1__Egotistical
2__Impulsive
1__Difficulty keeping appointments
4__Optimistic
4__Outgoing

SUPINE: 60
2__Reserved
4__Gentle
4__Difficulty saying NO
4__Suppresses feelings
4__Caring
3__Reactionary
4__Relationship focused
4__Dependable
5__Diligent
3__Harbors Anger
4__Indecisive
3__Service oriented
2__Weak-Willed
4__Loves tasks
2__Manipulative
2__Insecure
4__Loyal
2__Giving
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Choleric- 48
Phlegmatic- 56
Melancholy- 60
Sanguine- 46
Supine- 42
 

lane777

nevermore
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
635
Wow, compared to everybody else' scores, I'm obviously a very unbalanced individual :cry:
 

Eric B

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It's not about "balance". According to the full theory, you'll be three temperaments in social skills, leadership skills and deep personal relationship skills. (Could be the same temperament, in which case, you're a "pure" type). This test (picking traits out of a list) is a very inexact method of estimating the temperament. So, Melancholy/Supine-Phlegmatic would seem to fit INFJ.
Well,

CHOLERIC: 56
PHLEGMATIC: 52
MELANCHOLY: 55
SANGUINE: 43
SUPINE: 60

This is pretty much exactly the opposite that I usually score, though I don't really know anything about the classic temperaments. Choleric/Sanguine tends to describe me well.

I think, in this test, the Choleric and Sanguine traits tend to balance each other--a Choleric is disciplined and somewhat decisive but insensitive toward others, where Sanguine loves to motivate people but is somewhat undisciplined and spontaneous.

So you're Supine-Choleric! That's like me:hi:. On one hand, I would say that would suggest INTP, but Supine is actually very funny that way. The "Expressed" behavior is low, like an introvert, yet it has been called an "Introverted Sanguine", because the need for people is as high as Sanguine. Phlegmatic is actually moderate in his need for people, but on the old four temperament matrix was next to Sanguine in being "people-focused" or "Informing". So you could be Supine-Choleric and still ENTP. I have some extraverted energies that I attribute in part to being Supine, and I at one point considered ENTP (as a tentative compromise between ENFP and INTP), but settled back on INTP because the archetypes fit better (tertiary/relief Si, inferior Fe, trickster Se, etc)

I believe this missed temperament explains all the supposed EN-P "introverted extraverts", because Supine basically is described in five temperament theory as an introverted extravert. It also would explain a lot of T/F problems.

Supine is also basically a bit more "feely", which I know gives me T/F ambiguities as well. So I've been called ENFP, and that's what you were wearing for a while, so this would explain it for both of us! It's the Choleric that pushes us to the T side (though perhaps barely), and at the same time might make us identify with ENTJ like you once did (That came up as my "preferred type" on Jung Explorer from Similarminds, and ENFP was the "attraction type", and INTP was "actualized type").
 

Eric B

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Here is a diagram showing the transition from four to five on the temperament matrix:
4to5.jpg
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
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Messages
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I've noticed in your charts that you put phlegmatic in the middle of all of them. Is that why there is a need for a fifth temperament?
 

Eric B

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Yes, that is apparently how it was discovered.
In the first table, we see that Phlegmatic appears to be equal to Sanguine in "response sustain" or "people-focus", and Melancholy in "response delay" or introversion. The people who derived the theory used the FIRO-B scales, which graded expressiveness and people/task from 0-9. When the four ancient temperaments were mapped to this, it turned out Phlegmatic fit score ranges in the 4's and 5's, with the purest in dead center. And that makes sense, because when you really think of it, Phlegmatic is really moderate in expression (not as shy and reserved as the Melancholy), and in the "people/task scale, also moderate, ("can take them or leave them"). This is what is conveyed by the second table, where Phlegmatic does not quite reach the extreme ranges Sanguine and Melancholy do.

So the upper right corner is people with a high need for association like a Sanguine, yet are as shy and reseved as a Melancholy. Because of this, they have a lot of problems getting their need met, and are often very frustrated, and want people to "read their minds" (IIRC, one INFP here even testified to this). And apparently other "four-temperament" theorists, including LaHaye, were mentioning people who did not fit into the other four, and were like Sanguines who for some reason were "passive".
So the Christian counseling theorists named the Arno's deduced that this range was a previously unrecognized temperament. It was all along mistaken for a Melancholy or Phlegmatic, but really has quite distinct temperament needs.
And it fit me like a glove, and explained a lot! Hence, why I became fascinated by temperament theory, and wanted to cross-map the two systems!
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
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Messages
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Isn't phlegmatic just a useless temperament then? No wait... scratch that. What I mean is, isn't it a little too ambiguous to be a temperament? Or something like that... I'm not really sure...
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
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Jul 1, 2007
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8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
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4w5
I couldn't figure out how to take the test. It looks extremely complicated with all those numbers, and adding, and getting other people... I can't see how everyone else managed it.
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
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Messages
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I couldn't figure out how to take the test. It looks extremely complicated with all those numbers, and adding, and getting other people... I can't see how everyone else managed it.

The instructions are on the page. =/
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
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INFJ
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4w5
The instructions are on the page. =/

I've been out of school too long, I guess. :doh:

I'm so used to automated tests and pure writing or binary choice that the thought of having to plug in and add things up manually is actually stressful. Feels too much like math.

Plus, grading things on a scale is hard for me in the first place, because I don't know if they're supposed to be relative to each other, to some internal standard, or what.

I guess I'll wait until someone makes a less confusing and demanding test (or I can turn my brain back on, whichever comes first) to figure out where I fall.
 

Eric B

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Isn't phlegmatic just a useless temperament then? No wait... scratch that. What I mean is, isn't it a little too ambiguous to be a temperament? Or something like that... I'm not really sure...
No, it's just moderate both in expressiveness and responsiveness. I believe those two factors are driven by energies that push you towards or away from others, so Phlegmatic is just in the middle, not really driven much of anywhere. (So they remain calm, peaceful, and can take people or leave them).
movement.jpg

That's why it was always characterized as "slow" like Phlegm. Confirming your question, is that at one point (centuries ago, I believe), Phlegmatic was in fact being considered the absence of temperament! That is technically what it is in this conception.
 
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