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  1. #381
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Nov 2008
    ILE None


    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacuss View Post
    It really is interesting. My theory is that they cannot stomach the idea that they were the offender. Especially if you call them out on it - there is too much at stake. Their self-perception requires that they seem themselves as "nice" people. If they relent, then they would have to admit their bloody hands. Their distorted understanding of themselves requires that they never admit this.

    I wonder if it is that they are truly batshit and unable to see it or in fact conducting thought experiments to see how people react to the dissonance of their being an ultra-nasty piece of work while laying claim to righteousness.
    Funny how this fits the jackflack patern.
    Just saying .. I'm getting bored by the general lack of objectivity at times.

    Blind people calling others hypocrites. That's just sad.

    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  2. #382
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Jun 2008
    2 sx/so


    I don't know about Zergling but I wish Bluemonday and InaF came back to post.

  3. #383
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Apr 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    They're different from infractions which are always discussed and agreed on before being given out. But people seem to respond to them identically.
    Emotionally, the two methods (being warned and infractions) are identical unless they carry an immediate effect (ie: the difference between punishment and a lecture are pretty minute when both are lectures that say "don't do it again"). Both are wired into being called down socially, so that's only real effect it has.

    Using the parent-child analogy, it's rather like a parent 'counting to three'. Some people are wired to avoid it entirely and play by the rules, while others understand it as a literal "I can wait until the last count". The system here pretty much models that, and a lot of life does too. It's an effective model.

    Uhhh... rambling aside, the point was that those that care and react to warnings/infractions means they are reacting to be called on something (the range of reactions is broad), while those that do not are the ones who will want to push as far as possible (normally in defiance of social norms as a need).

    My general opinion, to clarify the point, is not to make too much effort to make the two different. You will tend to lose (net) effectiveness by doing so.

  4. #384
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Sep 2008
    5w4 sx/sp


    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Oh and, how about this one:


    bluemonday has left the building."

    And I'd appreciate it if you'd answer my question as to what the following quote means and when did I do that specifically:
    Re: "Laters"
    At the risk of giving you an unnecessary etymological lesson, that expression actually implied that I would be back, later, in fact. I see no contradiction there.

    Why are you being so petty/defensive? This isn't personal, on my part at least.

    I was borrowing spirilis's analogy. I made no claim. I didn't say anyone did anything (this is your confessional thread after all). Is there an epidemic of literitus going around? Seems so. By your reasoning I apparently trashed your server.
    I merely suggested that there are expectations on both sides.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    The "backlash" looks to me to be usual combination of people over invested, people who don't care less, and a few who like to see a train wreck.
    I don't know, I haven't read it. Others have told me it's been pretty nasty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #385
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Apr 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I see no contradiction there.
    Well I guess a lot of people thought you were leaving based on the statements I quoted above, - plus PMs, I'd imagine - and we all had it wrong. Or, maybe you just wanted to allude to that for some other purpose. Either way, I for one am glad that you're staying.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Why are you being so petty/defensive? This isn't personal, on my part at least.
    Because you made false accusations (or, alluded to them as I'm sure you'd state) against the forum and the Madmin based on misinformation, half-truths, and complete exaggerations. So . . . this is my job.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I made no claim.
    Then I guess they were just allusions to things that might not have ever happened.

    Hmmm, interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I didn't say anyone did anything (this is your confessional thread after all).
    Right. Thanks for clarifying.

    So when I make a thread in order to inform, it's a "confessional"? Hilarious. No wonder you, "rub people the wrong way." It's pretty clear that you do it on purpose.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I merely suggested that there are expectations on both sides.
    Right. "Merely suggested." Got it.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."

  6. #386
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Jun 2008
    7w6 sx
    SEE Fi


    I just re-read this entire topic, and I have to say that the posts I made in it are my favorite parts.

    Also, I'm re-pissed at Night for not telling me what the heck he was saying about me.

    And thirdly, so I'm still on topic, everybody go visit Zerg at his new forum,
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

    "I like the sigs with quotes in them from other forum members." -- Oberon

    The SP Spazz Youtube Channel

  7. #387
    wholly charmed Spartacuss's Avatar
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    Apr 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Funny how this fits the jackflack patern.
    Just saying .. I'm getting bored by the general lack of objectivity at times.

    Blind people calling others hypocrites. That's just sad.

    Please elaborate on the application of my statements to "the jackflack pattern." What exactly is "the jackflack pattern?" Are you referring to the colorful celebration of his banning by some or the mourning by others?

    What is the lack of objectivity you mentioned, specifically?

    And what blind people are calling others hypocrites? Do you mean that the people who point out those "nice people" who are in fact a nasty piece of work are themselves doing the same thing (pretend niceness, then ...). How so?

    Help me make sense of what, right now, looks like an incoherent response.
    Ti (43); Ne (41.8); Te (33.7); Fi (30.5); Ni (27.5); Se (24.7); Si (21.5); Fe (17.3)
    The More You Know the Less You Need. - Aboriginal Saying

  8. #388
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Apr 2007
    594 sx/sp
    LII Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    ...And thirdly, so I'm still on topic, everybody go visit Zerg at his new forum,

    It doesn't work.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #389
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Sep 2007

    Default Unforgivably Long Post Because No One Else is Responding

    I'll tell you Blue Monday and lurkers, a lot of the points you bring up have been brought up and discussed before in previous bannings. Please see The Great Uber Banning of 2007 (or 2008?). There was A LOT of discussion about forum policy, community standards, responsibility towards community members, etc. etc. etc.

    This is also I think why there's been some resistance - older forum members are simply tired and unwilling to revisit these conversations that they feel they've already expended energy on and made their points on.

    But not me! I got energy for days! And these points and questions are valid if there are members currently who still have these concerns. So here we go~

    There are several members of this forum that I find deeply offensive/annoying on a personal level. I don't complain about them or report posts because that isn't my style - it doesn't even occur to me. I just ignore them. It's really quite simple. I don't know why others can't adopt a similar approach.
    Because you're not them and you don't have the right to dictate how people are allowed to respond or feel about things. I am allowed to be offended by something, period. I don't need your permission or anyone else's permission to feel and think what I do.

    Just like I can't make you report posters that you find offensive, or dislike people who I dislike.

    Community rules and standards are in place so that seeming opposite reactions and preferred methods of handling 'offense' can co-exist.

    I will say what disturbed me about the JF incident: I think the ugliness on display in *that* thread was uncharacteristic - I have had more than my fair share of heated arguments with Jack and he has never been abusive in my experience.
    Don't take this personally, but that means NOTHING.

    Your personal experience is your own. It has no more importance than mine or the next person's. Please do not elevate your own personal selective experience and extrapolate the 'average' or 'base' experience that 'anyone' interacting with Jack would have.

    Evan, myself, Ivy, and other members HAVE had unpleasant and even 'abusive' run-ins with him. I know what I know. Do you know what I know?

    I appreciate you sharing your own experience but

    1) you are but one of MANY members on this forum
    2) yours is but one of MANY Jack Flak interactions on this forum
    3) we're looking at overall patterns, not just Jack and BlueMonday patterns
    4) we're talking about BANNABLE BEHAVIOR not how nice of a guy he was

    I think he lashed out because a) he was intoxicated and b) he was mocked after revealing a vulnerability seldom expressed.
    Are you seriously suggesting it was okay how he acted because he's an emotional drunk???

    I agree that Jack was being an angry, belligerent drunk and lashing out.

    So...I'm not sure what your point was here? I really am hoping you aren't trying to justify his bad behavior.

    Which is the greater crime - lashing out in the heat of the moment, or calculatedly trying to destroy another's peace of mind /reputation?
    Please show me who did this. I'm serious.

    I was actually in the thread as Jack had his last hurrah. Who was trying to destroy Jack's mind? Do you mean a member has been out 'to get him' for a while now, or do you mean in that thread?

    And the 'heat of the moment' lasted about an hour (mods, correct me if I'm wrong)

    I guess it comes down to whether you'd rather have an F.U. to your face or a knife in your back. I know which I'd prefer.
    If it makes you feel any better, I think both can be bannable offenses.

    I don't understand why it wasn't possible to suspend his account immediately until he had cooled off/sobered up, rather than giving him enough rope to hang himself - unless that was the intended outcome, of course.
    I can't answer the first question, but I know it was QUITE late when 'the incident' happened and not a lot of members were online. I think Edahn and Ivy were the only two mods/admin up and maybe only Ivy has the access to freeze accounts. I'm pretty sure she was working on it as the first shots were fired.

    The second part -- do you honestly think there was a conspiracy afoot? I'm not being facetious, I just really want to know if you and other members think that other members 'set' Jack up or that the Madmin were in on it somehow.

    And finally -- NO. Jack is a grown man who has to stand behind his own words and actions. Liquor does not give you carte blanche to be an asshole or make it "okay". There is no rope to give someone in this situation, they weave it themselves.

    Ultimately, I believe Jack to be a person of integrity, who made a mistake...or several.
    I respect your POV. Can you respect mine and other's who had different and equally valid experiences with him who disagree?

    Personally, I don't disagree or agreee or even care to comment about Jack's integrity. I never bring up member's "integrity" or "essential qualities" (banned or not) because

    1) I don't know you IRL, I cannot say
    2) It doesn't matter

    You are banned because of specific BEHAVIOR and ACTIONS that are recorded in a specific moment of time.

    All I speak to are a member's own ACTIONS and WORDS and BEHAVIOR. That is the only thing I pass judgement on and the only thing the Mods are supposed to pass judgement on when it comes to bannings.

    I have a real problem with banning people because I have witnessed the effects of 'shunning' people in other situations and it disturbs me.
    Me too.

    Let's say Jack really had been depressed and out of it that night, how might he have reacted?
    Who cares?

    I don't. I really don't. I could give a good goddamn.

    Because, to me, he's a complete stranger. I owe him absolutely nothing other than a minimum of respect, and he lost when he started being disrespectful. If I remained respectful, it was my choice, not his right.

    I don't have the time or inclination to babysit or psycho-analyze complete strangers who lash out.

    I have a real life with real people who need me, need my compassion, my affection, and my support.
    I have absolutely zero of the above ^^ to succor random people online who are acting like 12 year olds having a tantrum.

    In other words, NO. And I am no less of a compassionate or empathetic or caring or worthy person than you or others who favor reaching out to members who act out.

    If you and other members make the choice to reach out, I can respect that, but I'm not participating. It is not an obligation.

    If you want to discuss respect and duty in a community, don't forget your duty to respect me

    I worry about the handling of vulnerable people
    Why is Jack vulnerable? Because he is now banned after the fact and therefore now the underdog?

    BTW, I take exception to your reframing of this situation putting Jack as the victim. Who then are the aggressors in the situation, if not Jack himself?

    Jack may have been feeling emotionally vulnerable that night. Or he might have been hopped up on PCP and feeling super aggro. Or he might have XX XX X X XX X.

    None of us know exactly why he made the choice as a grown adult with all his mental faculties - to do what he did.

    It makes me uncomfortable to associate myself with that kind of vibe. I guess that's really what this is all about, for me.
    I'm glad you came to this realization, and as well-intentioned and I think ultimately constructive your post was -- I really wish you could have gotten around to it a lot sooner. Your cry for dialogue has gotten mired down in a lot of extraneous drama because you waited so long to actually explain what you are doing.

    Also, I don't think you've fully thought out what it is exactly that bothers you.

    What exactly do you mean by "that kind of vibe"? If you feel uncomfortable, does that necessarily mean that other people are doing something 'wrong' or 'bad'?

    I appreciate you putting yourself out there to have this discussion, so I hope you stick around (at least long enough to hash this all out! )
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux


  10. #390
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Jun 2007


    I get it now I was wondering why this thread got bumped to the top. but now i understand. it's so everyone can be reminded how "terrible" the mods are, and how we should all realize this. is febuary hate people with power month? I mean if you really feel so strongly there's an x on the top left or right corner click that. nothing's going to change, just going to stir up old drama again, really what's the point?

    ps if this is taken the wrong way i'm sorry i can't make it sound right.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

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