MBTI type and Success

[Mole]

We're making progress here, agreeing on basic premises and whatnot. But let's push things forward from that static, defeatist position. You see, if we can grant that MBTI is predictive of careerist and conformist approaches, then why not pry into the crevices and make use of the overlooked connections pertaining to individualistic, creative, and nonconformist features?

Why not pry into the crevices of astrology to find predictions of astronomy?

 

[Ashtart]

Carl Jung transferred his father fixation from Dr Sigmund Freud to the Fuhrer. So Jung worshipped the Fuhrer. And we worship Carl Jung.

First off, you sound like a broken record. Second, it's not the first time you call me a nazi, please think of a new insult because this one has gotten old (also, I'm jewish for fuck's sake!). Third, should I consider moving to Australia because I'm a loser? Fourth, if members of TypoC took a shot every time you mention Freud, Hitler and psychosis, we would all die of alcohol poisoning. Fifth, just out of curiosity, do you think the University of Toronto is a good university? In your opinion, do they teach critical thinking there?

 

[rvfvclv]

W

Critical thinking is higher order thinking. Critical thinking is not taught in Primary School, it is not taught in Secondary School, it is taught only at the University level, and only at the best Universities.

Thr Third World is noted for not only its lack of literacy but also for its lack of Universities.

Critical thinking requires literacy and emotional balance, because critical thinking causes cognitive dissonance which is emotionally painful.

And so naturally the Third World hates critical thinking and critical thinkers. Just today we have a critical thinker escaping from Saudi Arabia, with her life, in order to think freely in Canada.

And mbti is like the Third World in the hatred of critical thinking and critical thinkers.

I cannot speak for other third world countries, but I can speak for Brazil. In 2017, Brazil had more than 2400 universities, with an
illiteracy rate of only 7%. This may come as a shock to you, but from a list of 1000 best universities in the world (2018-2019), 20 of them are brazilian universities, whereas 28 of them are australian universities. The University of Canberra didn't even make the list. The University of São Paulo, ranked the 77th best in the world, is only behind three australian universities, and therefore, ahead of at least 25 of them. So no, there isn't a lack of criticial thinking nor universities in my third world country.

 

[Pionart]

Psychosis is only treated by professional, qualified psychiatrists.

In tribal socieities, psychosis is treated by shamans. The shaman is one who has mastered their psychosis, and the person with psychosis who they are treating will likely go on to be the next shaman.

Western society does not allow for such people to have a role in society, because Western society is based on materialism, and materialism, due to rejecting the existence of spiritual reality, is out of touch with reality. So a spiritual issue is treated as a "chemical imbalance" and "treated" by psychiatrists through the use of psychiatric drugs, specifically anti-psychotics, which are destructive to the mental and spiritual and physical and emotional and social well-being of the person who takes them. Unlike the shaman, the psychiatrist has not been through psychosis, and so has no direct understanding of it. Thus, they grossly misrepresent it and treat it in ways which make little sense regarding the reality of what is taking place. And society, having had the sheet of ignorance placed over them, believe the lies of the field of psychiatry that psychiatry can treat psychosis and is the only way to treat psychosis. So people with psychosis are subjected to widespread institutionalised abuse at the hand of psychiatrists, and their prognosis is not good.

One day society may begin to help people with psychosis, but under the materialistic regime of the West, this does not appear likely.

 

[Mole]

In tribal socieities, psychosis is treated by shamans. The shaman is one who has mastered their psychosis, and the person with psychosis who they are treating will likely go on to be the next shaman. Western society does not allow for such people to have a role in society, because Western society is based on materialism, and materialism, due to rejecting the existence of spiritual reality, is out of touch with reality. So a spiritual issue is treated as a "chemical imbalance" and "treated" by psychiatrists through the use of psychiatric drugs, specifically anti-psychotics, which are destructive to the mental and spiritual and physical and emotional and social well-being of the person who takes them. Unlike the shaman, the psychiatrist has not been through psychosis, and so has no direct understanding of it. Thus, they grossly misrepresent it and treat it in ways which make little sense regarding the reality of what is taking place. And society, having had the sheet of ignorance placed over them, believe the lies of the field of psychiatry that psychiatry can treat psychosis and is the only way to treat psychosis. So people with psychosis are subjected to widespread institutionalised abuse at the hand of psychiatrists, and their prognosis is not good. One day society may begin to help people with psychosis, but under the materialistic regime of the West, this does not appear likely.

Shamen believe psychosis is caused by demons, and so they cast out demons, just like Jesus.This is called exorcism.

 

[Pionart]

Shamen believe psychosis is caused by demons, and so they cast out demons, just like Jesus.This is called exorcism.

Psychiatrists try to exorcise demons with a pill.

There are various kinds of psychosis. Another name for psychosis is spiritual emergency and pyschiatrists are not trained to deal with the spiritual, so their corrective efforts are frequently devastating.

 

[Ashtart]

Psychiatrists try to exorcise demons with a pill.

There are various kinds of psychosis. Another name for psychosis is spiritual emergency and pyschiatrists are not trained to deal with the spiritual, so their corrective efforts are frequently devastating.

I'm a total layman on the topic but it made me curious: these types of psychosis you are referring to, specially those who were practiced by shamans (and I think is important to mention that when I think about shaman "treatment" I can only think of northwest Canada's/Alaska [Tingit, Qiakutil tribes etc] and the Azande people in Congo/Sudan because these are the only kinds of shamanism I really studied), need some sort of belief in a "higher being" or, at least, in a more broad concept of "soul", no? How could psychosis be treated in a shaman-like way in an atheist society, for example? Also, wouldn't it be a bit similar to the process of hypnosis (specially religious hypnosis)?

I apologize if the question is too lame, I'm really just an ignorant who got interested in the topic.

 

[Mole]

I'm a total layman on the topic but it made me curious: these types of psychosis you are referring to, specially those who were practiced by shamans (and I think is important to mention that when I think about shaman "treatment" I can only think of northwest Canada's/Alaska [Tingit, Qiakutil tribes etc] and the Azande people in Congo/Sudan because these are the only kinds of shamanism I really studied), need some sort of belief in a "higher being" or, at least, in a more broad concept of "soul", no? How could psychosis be treated in a shaman-like way in an atheist society, for example? Also, wouldn't it be a bit similar to the process of hypnosis (specially religious hypnosis)? I apologize if the question is too lame, I'm really just an ignorant who got interested in the topic.

Psychiatrists try to exorcise demons with a pill. There are various kinds of psychosis. Another name for psychosis is spiritual emergency and pyschiatrists are not trained to deal with the spiritual, so their corrective efforts are frequently devastating.

The Western Enlightenment replaced superstition and mysticism with evidence and reason.

Those who reject the Enlightenment are Islam, the Marxed Left, and the New Age. And they reject evidence and reason for mysticism and superstition.

And we have learnt, the sleep of reason brings forth monsters.

 

[Mole]

I'm a total layman on the topic but it made me curious: these types of psychosis you are referring to, specially those who were practiced by shamans (and I think is important to mention that when I think about shaman "treatment" I can only think of northwest Canada's/Alaska [Tingit, Qiakutil tribes etc] and the Azande people in Congo/Sudan because these are the only kinds of shamanism I really studied), need some sort of belief in a "higher being" or, at least, in a more broad concept of "soul", no? How could psychosis be treated in a shaman-like way in an atheist society, for example? Also, wouldn't it be a bit similar to the process of hypnosis (specially religious hypnosis)? I apologize if the question is too lame, I'm really just an ignorant who got interested in the topic.

Yes, shamanism is the practice of hypnosis. When we have no medical knowledge based on evidence and reason, we have no alternative but hypnosis.

 

[Mole]

And it is well worth saying, mbti is not based on evidence and reason, mbti is not based on Psychometrics. Like astrology mbti is a popular form of self hypnosis.

So mbti is anti-Enlightenment.

 

[Non_xsense]

And it is well worth saying, mbti is not based on evidence and reason, mbti is not based on Psychometrics. Like astrology mbti is a popular form of self hypnosis.

So mbti is anti-Enlightenment.

Everything in the human being paradigm is a ladder . Religion , pitagoras , copernico , newton , einstein , maxwell ... we can even use music if you want : pitagoras , bach , mozart , bethoven , chopin , debussy , ravel , ligeti , ect.

Your quasi-Enlightenment is just your temporal context .

 

[Mole]

Everything in the human being paradigm is a ladder . Religion , pitagoras , copernico , newton , einstein , maxwell ... we can even use music if you want : pitagoras , bach , mozart , bethoven , chopin , debussy , ravel , ligeti , ect. Your quasi-Enlightenment is just your temporal context .

We perceive by making distinctions, and we misperceive when we fail to make clear distinctions.

Mispersception is created by the New Age in the interests of mysticism and superstition.

 

[Pionart]

I'm a total layman on the topic but it made me curious: these types of psychosis you are referring to, specially those who were practiced by shamans (and I think is important to mention that when I think about shaman "treatment" I can only think of northwest Canada's/Alaska [Tingit, Qiakutil tribes etc] and the Azande people in Congo/Sudan because these are the only kinds of shamanism I really studied), need some sort of belief in a "higher being" or, at least, in a more broad concept of "soul", no? How could psychosis be treated in a shaman-like way in an atheist society, for example? Also, wouldn't it be a bit similar to the process of hypnosis (specially religious hypnosis)?

I apologize if the question is too lame, I'm really just an ignorant who got interested in the topic.

Your question isn't lame - it's a good question because it gets to what I think is the root of the issue.

If psychosis is a spiritual issue - which I believe it is - then it requires spiritual processes to make sense of. If a non-spiritual organisation is trying to treat it, the only way to do so would be to use a model which is essentially equivalent to the spiritual model but with the disclaimer "this is just a model: there aren't really spirits". This would likely result in cognitive dissonance though, because it posits constructs which are at the same time being denied as existing.

As it stands though, we're relying on materialism beyond the scope to which materialism can be said to apply. It's a tragedy.

(oh, and I don't really understand these references to hypnotism, so I can't comment there)

 

[Mole]

The hypothesis that prayer or spiritual practice cure disease has been reality tested, and we found there is no evidence prayer or spiritual practice cure physical or mental illness,

 

[Mole]

Psychiatrists try to exorcise demons with a pill. There are various kinds of psychosis. Another name for psychosis is spiritual emergency and pyschiatrists are not trained to deal with the spiritual, so their corrective efforts are frequently devastating.

And they say drugs are the doorway to spiritual experience. The band The Doop sang about breaking on through to the other side before ODing in the bathtub.

 

[Ashtart]

The Western Enlightenment replaced superstition and mysticism with evidence and reason.

Those who reject the Enlightenment are Islam, the Marxed Left, and the New Age. And they reject evidence and reason for mysticism and superstition.

And we have learnt, the sleep of reason brings forth monsters.

From an anthropological stand point, suggesting that Islam (and its various complex ramifications and social-cultural influences) is anti Enlightenment couldn't be farther from the truth. If you take French-Argelians muslins from the Argelia to French diaspora in the 40 and, specially, the 60s you will see that in order to live and adequate yourself in.a Western society, Argelian muslins adapted many of their original islamic traditions (being overly simplistic, the same is applicable to what is slowing happening in the UAE nowadays), this is only possible because Islam in itself is a very mutable religion, in constant "upgrade-mode", contrary to what happens in its fellow abrahamic religions, which are stationary in its core. It is important to acknowledge that when Christianity was burning books, Islam and its followers were developing many areas of science and the Enlightenment itself benefited a lot from what came from the Maghreb-Mashreq region.

 

[Mole]

From an anthropological stand point, suggesting that Islam (and its various complex ramifications and social-cultural influences) is anti Enlightenment couldn't be farther from the truth. If you take French-Argelians muslins from the Argelia to French diaspora in the 40 and, specially, the 60s you will see that in order to live and adequate yourself in.a Western society, Argelian muslins adapted many of their original islamic traditions (being overly simplistic, the same is applicable to what is slowing happening in the UAE nowadays), this is only possible because Islam in itself is a very mutable religion, in constant "upgrade-mode", contrary to what happens in its fellow abrahamic religions, which are stationary in its core. It is important to acknowledge that when Christianity was burning books, Islam and its followers were developing many areas of science and the Enlightenment itself benefited a lot from what came from the Maghreb-Mashreq region.

Islam rejects Ancient Greece as infidel. And because the Renaissance and the Enlightenment arr based on Ancient Greece, Isam rejects the Western Enlightenment as infidel.

In order to show bona fide do read "Infidel" by Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

 

[Ashtart]

Islam rejects Ancient Greece as infidel. And because the Renaissance and the Enlightenment arr based on Ancient Greece, Isam rejects the Western Enlightenment as infidel.

In order to show bona fide do read "Infidel" by Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

*face palms*

I propose an anthropological discussion about Islam and the process of Enlightenment in the Western World and you tell me to read an autobiography. Even though Ali's history is touching, you can't take the experience of one person to define a religion and its history, I hope you know that.

I propose you read "Islam Observed" by Glifford Geertz.

 

[Pionart]

The hypothesis that prayer or spiritual practice cure disease has been reality tested, and we found there is no evidence prayer or spiritual practice cure physical or mental illness,

One data point doesn't necessarily constitute evidence, but here's a data point: The Shamanic View of Mental Illness — JaysonGaddis.com

To test his belief that the shamanic view of mental illness holds true in the Western world as well as in indigenous cultures, Dr. Somé took a mental patient back to Africa with him, to his village. “I was prompted by my own curiosity to find out whether there’s truth in the universality that mental illness could be connected with an alignment with a being from another world,” says Dr. Somé.

Alex was an 18-year-old American who had suffered a psychotic break when he was 14. He had hallucinations, was suicidal, and went through cycles of dangerously severe depression. He was in a mental hospital and had been given a lot of drugs, but nothing was helping. “The parents had done everything–unsuccessfully,” says Dr. Somé. “They didn’t know what else to do.”

With their permission, Dr. Somé took their son to Africa. “After eight months there, Alex had become quite normal, Dr. Somé reports. He was even able to participate with healers in the business of healing; sitting with them all day long and helping them, assisting them in what they were doing with their clients . . . . He spent about four years in my village.” Alex stayed by choice, not because he needed more healing. He felt, “much safer in the village than in America.

On sites regarding spiritual emergency, there are mentions that they use various methods to guide people through the experiences, although I can't find any research on it per se.

Spiritual Emergencies: Understanding and Treatment of Psychospiritual Crises - Reality Sandwich

If they are correctly understood and supported, these psychospiritual crises can result in emotional and psychosomatic healing, remarkable psychological transformation, and consciousness evolution (Grof and Grof 1989, 1990).

It's mentioned that not all psychosis is spiritual emergency. For example, psychosis with identifiable biological origin ("organic"), for example from a brain tumour, is not regarded as spiritual emergency. I don't know to what extent functional psychosis overlaps with spiritual emergency, but I'd say it's some very high percentage of cases. It wouldn't much surprise me if all of them were, but it wouldn't surprise me if the number was more modest. What I do think is clear is that a great many diagnosed psychoses are spiritual in nature, and need to be treated as such.


It has not been shown - indeed, it isn't even claimed - that anti-psychotics "cure" schizophrenia (note that the whole idea of "curing" schizophrenia is a bit strange, given its healing and transformative nature). What is shown is that anti-psychotics reduce the rate of psychosis in the short-term. In the long-term, psychosis rates approach those of a person not being treated, however functionality is reduced.

Recovery in remitted first-episode psychosis at 7 years of follow-up of an early dose reduction/discontinuation or maintenance treatment strategy: ... - PubMed - NCBI

RESULTS:
The DR patients experienced twice the recovery rate of the MT patients (40.4% vs 17.6%). Logistic regression showed an odds ratio of 3.49 (P = .01). Better DR recovery rates were related to higher functional remission rates in the DR group but were not related to symptomatic remission rates.

Psychiatric treatment works by suppressing symptoms, not curing an illness. I believe it contributes to illness - that's my takeaway from my experience and research, at least. Basically, if you're going through a natural process, even if it's something most people don't experience, then that process - at least in the case of psychosis - is something that needs to play out. So, they key is to help guide people through the process so that they manage it well and get through to the other side with the gifts that can be received from going through it. Suppression misses the point entirely and can stunt a person's development.

 

[Mole]

Mbti will increase our income at the cost of our self respect.