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A rose, a flower, a spade...renaming to remove bias.

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
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Something occurred to me last night. What would be the difference if you relabelled extrovert and introvert as explorer and investigator? I don't think it's too far a stretch of the imagination to figure that extroverts want to do, like explorers, and that investigators are those who witness but do not necessarily partake, which is close to an introverts style.

It got me thinking, many of the problems with the MBTI system is that it was labelled up with a bias towards the NTP type. After all, when compared to "intuition" who would want to be labelled a "sensor", when compared to "thinking", who would want to be called a "feeler" and when compared to "perceptive", who would like to be known as "judgemental"?

These biases are daft as each preference has it's own use and speciality. So basically can we come up with words which, though still adequately defining the preference, remove these biases and produce a more neutral view of each preference? If not then can we relabel the preferences to something more appropriate perhaps even changing the letters E,I,N,S,F,T,J & P?
 

rivercrow

shoshaku jushaku
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I'd prefer to use my own system, which I've devised over years of consideration.

Extraversion=Outering
Introversion=Intering
Sensing=Realing
iNtuiting=Hunching
Thinking=Logicing
Feeling=Valuing
Judging=Actioning
Perceiving=Waiting
 

wildcat

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Something occurred to me last night. What would be the difference if you relabelled extrovert and introvert as explorer and investigator? I don't think it's too far a stretch of the imagination to figure that extroverts want to do, like explorers, and that investigators are those who witness but do not necessarily partake, which is close to an introverts style.

It got me thinking, many of the problems with the MBTI system is that it was labelled up with a bias towards the NTP type. After all, when compared to "intuition" who would want to be labelled a "sensor", when compared to "thinking", who would want to be called a "feeler" and when compared to "perceptive", who would like to be known as "judgemental"?

These biases are daft as each preference has it's own use and speciality. So basically can we come up with words which, though still adequately defining the preference, remove these biases and produce a more neutral view of each preference? If not then can we relabel the preferences to something more appropriate perhaps even changing the letters E,I,N,S,F,T,J & P?
Evolution has favoured the ESTJ.
They are the survivors.

Darwin was not one of them.
 

wildcat

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I'd prefer to use my own system, which I've devised over years of consideration.

Extraversion=Outering
Introversion=Intering
Sensing=Realing
iNtuiting=Hunching
Thinking=Logicing
Feeling=Valuing
Judging=Actioning
Perceiving=Waiting
Hence Te is outering logicing.
A cul de sac.

Well said.
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
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RC,
Based on that I fancy being an IRLA or an ORLA!!!

What is outering and intering? You wouldn't be just making words up now would you? ;)

Wildcat,
Me thinks you've just out tangented me. What? Why the reference to evolution? ESTJs are not favoured by the MBTI they may be favoured by the society which spawned the MBTI but the man behind the system does not appear to like them too much.
 

rivercrow

shoshaku jushaku
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RC,
Based on that I fancy being an IRLA or an ORLA!!!

What is outering and intering? You wouldn't be just making words up now would you? ;)
Much more pronounceable, too. IHVW would be "eeH-VU". It's a beautiful system.
 

Xander

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If T was Tactical, referring to precise movements to set criteria, then what would F be?

I suppose you could always go for Tactless and Fuzzy ;)
 

rivercrow

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Nah, surely it's I'VEW?

Btw, how did you arrive at the I/E words?

Tomato, tomahto.

The rationale behind my choice of words is obvious if one understands the theory.

My system has the added bonus of using a parallel constructed list.
 

Xander

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Tomayto, tomahto.
Corrected to compensate for accent.
The rationale behind my choice of words is obvious if one understands the theory.
Which is why I'm asking about your theory dummy. Now quit with the Neo and get with the xplainin!! :steam:
My system has the added bonus of using a parallel constructed list.
Wildcat has a system constructed entirely with parallels... yours appears different.
 

rivercrow

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Corrected to compensate for accent.

Which is why I'm asking about your theory dummy. Now quit with the Neo and get with the xplainin!! :steam:

Wildcat has a system constructed entirely with parallels... yours appears different.

:nerd:
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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It got me thinking, many of the problems with the MBTI system is that it was labelled up with a bias towards the NTP type. After all, when compared to "intuition" who would want to be labelled a "sensor", when compared to "thinking", who would want to be called a "feeler" and when compared to "perceptive", who would like to be known as "judgemental"?

When the words were selected, did they hold the same negative connotations in society as they do today?

Only if they did could you complain about a label bias towards NTP.

And Isabelle Myers didn't seem to have difficulty with the word "Feeler."
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
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When the words were selected, did they hold the same negative connotations in society as they do today?

Only if they did could you complain about a label bias towards NTP.

And Isabelle Myers didn't seem to have difficulty with the word "Feeler."
Well someone is feeling pedantic today. Did one stub one's pinky on the keyboard or is there something you can point to as the source of your ire?

As to your current stated objections, if I prepared each post to be semantically invulnerable then I would not post a damn thing and thereby neither should you based on the same criteria to which you hold me. It's all about the grey areas my friend and what shade you prefer.

I think are missing each other on the intention of this thread. I myself do not have a problem with the words. I recognise them as symbols for the meaning held behind them. They are but icons. However it would explain the route cause of some of the misinterpretation shown by some and also hopefully by changing the words it may ward against those who are unfamiliar with the system trying to obtain a certain result due to bias about the words used for the types.

Admittedly this is done from an NTP position so perhaps my bias is showing (bias being the same as preference) and therefore perhaps we can rely on others naturally accepting the labels assigned to their preferences but I rather feel that such would be a little idealistic and short sighted.

As an example should a bloke be typed as F, in most countries this is not considered the appropriate style for a man and so they get coached in T regardless. Now this itself cannot be stopped realistically but where as now the bloke will approach the MBTI, look at the title feeler and perhaps feel awkward or refute the preference no matter what the test says, if it instead only listed values instead of principles as the title then perhaps the reaction would not be so marked?

I have seen people reject their type based on the words it uses. I have seen non extroverted extroverts and I am a pretty non introverted introvert (hey I even chat to people!!!).. I just figure the words hold meaning which is not necessarily linked to the meaning they have within the system so perhaps better words can be chosen.

Perhaps... maybe... ideas... discuss...There is no argument here one way or another.
 

wildcat

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Since you want to study the ESTJ the best guide book I know is the 1984 of George Orwell.
The ESTJs are sharers. They are a brotherhood. Every weekend they have a party where they share.

Ira Levin also wrote a book about the phenomenon. It is called the Stepford women. In Stepford they had the Men's Club. It was the local ESTJ club.
It was the place where the ESTJs shared.

In the book the heroess thought there is something wrong in the water.
It was not the water.
 
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