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  1. #11
    Member SigningBeast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexcoder View Post
    If you're this confident you're not one, then why not just ignore them? You answered why they think you are an extrovert right there.
    I think it is because I am curious. *shrug* I am also really weird and my curiosity gets the best of me. Plus, sometimes people will think they are introverted but they are really an extrovert.

  2. #12
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Talkativeness correlates to extroverted judgement, so it may be more a trait of IxxJs than ExxPs.

    Being an introvert or extrovert isn't about whether you need to recharge from socialising, I don't think it is, anyway. You have to identify your function order to know, really.
    Likes Peter Deadpan liked this post

  3. #13
    Member SigningBeast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    Talkativeness correlates to extroverted judgement, so it may be more a trait of IxxJs than ExxPs.

    Being an introvert or extrovert isn't about whether you need to recharge from socialising, I don't think it is, anyway. You have to identify your function order to know, really.
    That make sense..
    Still just learning about all of this, ya know?

  4. #14
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigningBeast View Post
    That make sense..
    Still just learning about all of this, ya know?
    Yeah and there's not a lot of good information out there so it can be a slow learning process.

    I was still questioning my type until some time this year, and I got into typology in 2010.

    I like to think I know what I'm talking about with this stuff but there's still a ton to learn.

  5. #15
    ƃuıǝǝs | seeing Snow as White's Avatar
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    we are all just stabbing in the dark when we try and type someone who isn't us. we can see flashes and figures of other people but most likely never anything near to the whole. it's kind of like how 3D objects can look different as they pass through a 2D space.

    your friends may be considering you extraverted because of their perceptions on what extraversion is coupled with their own perceptions of how extraverted they are.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    Talkativeness correlates to extroverted judgement, so it may be more a trait of IxxJs than ExxPs.

    Being an introvert or extrovert isn't about whether you need to recharge from socialising, I don't think it is, anyway. You have to identify your function order to know, really.
    That would make sense...If extroverted perceiving functions don't necessarily need people for stimulation (Ne/Se), then recharging via socialization is not required in terms of utilization....However, we all need to socialize every once in a while to maintain sanity. I thought my older brother (ENTP) was an introvert since he never has much to say, yet it's where his energy is directed.....I've been called an ambiavert, especially when I get on a rapid spree of making continual puns/word-play/random connections to every single comment.

  7. #17
    幽霊||๏ sᴏʟɪᴛᴀʀʏ ʀᴇɪɢɴ Hexcoder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigningBeast View Post
    I think it is because I am curious. *shrug* I am also really weird and my curiosity gets the best of me. Plus, sometimes people will think they are introverted but they are really an extrovert.
    Yes, people on both ends mistake themselves for either.

    Re: "I'm an ambivert" => everyone is one. If anyone was purely E or I they would need to be in an asylum or something.

    In order to determine reasons...
    if you first examine the definitions of introversion vs extroversion, then find the ways you align / appear to align with extroversion, you will likely satiate said curiosity ("they think I seem like one because I match x, y, z like one"). If you're poorly aligned with it entirely, then your answer is simply that they are saying this due to stereotypes and misconceptions (and there are a dozen out there, who knows which ones?) Just don't forget to depend on reliable sources and not something like...say...a random person on PerC or TypoC making statements they don't back up with valid reading materials.


    Introversion

    • Inner / self focus
    • More independent-minded
    • More cautious, conservative, and discriminatingl "look before they leap"; rely heavily on forethought (especially IJs)
    • Prefer a slower, quieter, reflective life
    • More easily overwhelmed by external stimuli
    • Feel somewhat alien, uncomfortable, or inadequate in the world
    • Often less talkative (especially ISPs)
    • More self-reflective and self-aware
    • Require more time to themselves

    Extroversion

    • Outer / world focus
    • More collective-minded
    • "Act now, think later" (especially EPs); more assertive and risk-tolerant
    • Enjoy a busier, "on the go" lifestyle
    • Less concerned with being harmed or overwhelmed by world
    • Feel rather at home in the world
    • Often more talkative (especially ENJs)
    • More world-reflective and world-aware
    • Require less time to themselves


  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexcoder View Post
    Yes, people on both ends mistake themselves for either.

    Re: "I'm an ambivert" => everyone is one. If anyone was purely E or I they would need to be in an asylum or something.

    In order to determine reasons...
    if you first examine the definitions of introversion vs extroversion, then find the ways you align / appear to align with extroversion, you will likely satiate said curiosity. If you're poorly aligned with it entirely, then your answer is simply that they are saying this due to stereotypes and misconceptions (and there are a dozen out there, who knows which ones?) Just don't forget to depend on reliable sources and not something like...say...a random person on PerC or TypoC making statements they don't back up with valid reading materials.


    Introversion
    • Inner / self focus
    • More independent-minded
    • More cautious, conservative, and discriminatingl "look before they leap"; rely heavily on forethought (especially IJs)
    • Prefer a slower, quieter, reflective life
    • More easily overwhelmed by external stimuli
    • Feel somewhat alien, uncomfortable, or inadequate in the world
    • Often less talkative (especially ISPs)
    • More self-reflective and self-aware
    • Require more time to themselves

    Extroversion
    • Outer / world focus
    • More collective-minded
    • "Act now, think later" (especially EPs); more assertive and risk-tolerant
    • Enjoy a busier, "on the go" lifestyle
    • Less concerned with being harmed or overwhelmed by world
    • Feel rather at home in the world
    • Often more talkative (especially ENJs)
    • More world-reflective and world-aware
    • Require less time to themselves
    It's more of a spectrum, so in that regard yes, everyone would be an ambivert (especially function wise). Yet, the closer you tend towards the middle, the harder it gets to differentiate and hence, determine type......Someone at the extreme end (INTJ w/ highly developed Ni and undeveloped Te) would be viewed more strongly as an introvert than (INTJ w/ highly developed Te). Thus, development of lower functions can mask the effect of a dominant extroverted function and vice versa.

  9. #19
    幽霊||๏ sᴏʟɪᴛᴀʀʏ ʀᴇɪɢɴ Hexcoder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurl3y4456 View Post
    It's more of a spectrum, so in that regard yes, everyone would be an ambivert (especially function wise). Yet, the closer you tend towards the middle, the harder it gets to differentiate and hence, determine type......Someone at the extreme end (INTJ w/ highly developed Ni and undeveloped Te) would be viewed more strongly as an introvert than (INTJ w/ highly developed Te). Thus, development of lower functions can mask the effect of a dominant extroverted function and vice versa.

    TBH, it gets a bit crazy and confusing to use that method. Personally, I think Harold Grant's Cognitive Functions are basically garbage until proven otherwise. There's no evidence out there that's really deeming functions authentic. I don't use this as a primary typing method, I go by dichotomies more...but I'll still entertain others' methods and do things from their own preferred angles if someone else doesn't see things the way I do generally. Now that I've established my actual stance, I'll commence with approaching from your angle here (just bear in mind that I don't actually firmly believe in half the shit I'm about to say, since again...I think functions are utter shit until proven otherwise).

    Your statement contains the presumption that introversion and extroversion are determined by strength of a function in a stack:
    [Ni] Lv 5
    [Te] Lv 4
    more extroverted than
    [Ni] Lv 5
    [Te] Lv 2
    ...to illustrate / lay out the concept in a more visual manner.

    However, there is really no finalized or conclusive evidence either for or against whether or not each function axis itself would actually be operating on a spectrum (or in other words, basically x2 Fe users, both with Aux Fe, but one more prominently Fe than the other)

    Person 1:
    [Fe] ----•--------- [Fi]

    Person 2:
    [Fe] -•------------ [Fi]


    So, I mean...what a mind fuck to try to type anyone through that...I don't really feel like getting into all of that. It's an impasse without actual research involved, so all we would do is run in circles around inconclusive hypotheticals without any real answers in the end.

    Yet, if we also examine each of the function axes in their dominant state, there is no differentiation between Ne Dom and Extroversion--at least, by definition. This is because we are talking about cognitive extroversion (which is likely easiest to summarize as "the focal point of a person," and whether that would be on the outer world or inner.) Why would anyone spend the majority of their time in their Aux fcuntion naturally rather than their Dom? There is therefore no separation between Cognitive I/E, Functions (when Ti = cognitive introversion and Se = cognitive extroversion since the directional flow is toward an inward or outward state which is entirely overlapped with the baseline definition of cognitive I/E), or Dichotomy I/E...by definition. Sadly, in reality, this turns out being flawed and people don't always align so well in reality because Harold Grant's Cognitive Function Stacks are too restrictive and impractical, which means you can thus be an ISTP with Inferior Ni.

    tl;dr
    Your Aux function is not what determines your I/E levels according to theories anyways, btw.

    It's better to type in each system separately in order to obtain accuracy.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexcoder View Post
    TBH, it gets a bit crazy and confusing to use that method. Personally, I think Harold Grant's Cognitive Functions are basically garbage until proven otherwise. There's no evidence out there that's really deeming functions authentic. I don't use this as a primary typing method, I go by dichotomies more...but I'll still entertain others' methods and do things from their own preferred angles if someone else doesn't see things the way I do generally. Now that I've established my actual stance, I'll commence with approaching from your angle here (just bear in mind that I don't actually firmly believe in half the shit I'm about to say, since again...I think functions are utter shit until proven otherwise).

    Your statement contains the presumption that introversion and extroversion are determined by strength of a function in a stack:
    [Ni] Lv 5
    [Te] Lv 4
    more extroverted than
    [Ni] Lv 5
    [Te] Lv 2
    ...to illustrate / lay out the concept in a more visual manner.

    However, there is really no finalized or conclusive evidence either for or against whether or not each function axis itself would actually be operating on a spectrum (or in other words, basically x2 Fe users, both with Aux Fe, but one more prominently Fe than the other)

    Person 1:
    [Fe] ----•--------- [Fi]

    Person 2:
    [Fe] -•------------ [Fi]


    So, I mean...what a mind fuck to try to type anyone through that...I don't really feel like getting into all of that. It's an impasse without actual research involved, so all we would do is run in circles around inconclusive hypotheticals without any real answers in the end.

    Yet, if we also examine each of the function axes in their dominant state, there is no differentiation between Ne Dom and Extroversion--at least, by definition. This is because we are talking about cognitive extroversion (which is likely easiest to summarize as "the focal point of a person," and whether that would be on the outer world or inner.) Why would anyone spend the majority of their time in their Aux fcuntion naturally rather than their Dom? There is therefore no separation between Cognitive I/E, Functions (when Ti = cognitive introversion and Se = cognitive extroversion since the directional flow is toward an inward or outward state which is entirely overlapped with the baseline definition of cognitive I/E), or Dichotomy I/E...by definition. Sadly, in reality, this turns out being flawed and people don't always align so well in reality because Harold Grant's Cognitive Function Stacks are too restrictive and impractical, which means you can thus be an ISTP with Inferior Ni.

    tl;dr
    Your Aux function is not what determines your I/E levels according to theories anyways, btw.

    It's better to type in each system separately in order to obtain accuracy.
    Yes, of course the aux functions won't determine I/E....I haven't read into the theory, but I proposed that method since the idea of "spectrum" can apply to multiple concepts. Function development is determined by environmental stimulus....That is, if you're a Ti user and you're confined daily within a room of prominent Fe users (hypothetical), then Ti development will suffer since people tend to conform to the events that they're situated in....For instance, suppose you follow multiple different paths (butterfly effect)...Then your development & alignment of functions will differ per scenario...

    Since you're INTP, suppose you wake up and everyone is ENTP (strong Ne)....Since you must adapt to the new situation, you will need to feed your Ne more frequently. Thus, your Ne function will gain more strength over time relative to a scenario in which there exists mixed personalities. Your associations can alter the strength of any particular function over time....Yet introversion will still dominate since that's your pulling function (function you gravitate towards)...Thus, from the above scenario you outlined, person 2 may be perceived more strongly as an extrovert than person 1, yet the dominant functions still overrules. The point I was attempting to make was that the "spectrum" may induce a masking effect, which can make it more difficult to pinpoint whether you are E or I.

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