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Keirsey vs. Myers Briggs

G

Glycerine

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What are the major differences? If you are one type on the Myers Briggs, does that mean you are still the same type on the Keirsey?
 

Jack Flak

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Jul 17, 2008
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9,098
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type
The types correlate. Also: Keirsey rules, and Myers & Briggs suck it.
 

cloakofsnow

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Oct 16, 2007
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152
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INFx
Keirsey is temperament and Myers-Briggs is cognitive types. Theoretically they're supposed to correlate directly even though they're different models, so, yes, you have to be the same type in both systems.

I personally think of Keirsey as being related to the elements systems: earth, air, water, fire:

SJ - Earth
NT - Air
NF - Water
SP - Fire

Looking at it this way, it would explain why Keirsey thinks J-P makes a bigger difference to S types, and T-F a bigger difference to N types. It would be my answer to a question in another thread (sorry, can't remember the name of the thread) that asks why it's SJ and SP and not ST and SF, or why it's NT and NF rather than NP and NJ.

Myers-Briggs doesn't fit so neatly with the four elements system. ISTP, even though an SP according to Keirsey, is really a dominant Introverted Thinker according to Myers-Briggs. So elementally, should that be Fire or Air? Neither, it seems; or both. To me, that's how I can tell that the two systems are different.

Sorry if my response is a bit confusing. I just noticed that it isn't a completely direct answer to your question.
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
7,263
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INTP
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5w4
Keirsey conceptualizes introversion and extroversion, as well as judging and perceiving slightly differently from MB's. It's not that far off, though, so there are lots of correlates. Also, I believe that temperaments are Keirsey's creation, not MBs'. Keirsey expanded his operations beyond the workforce to include relationships, which you can read about in his books Please Understand Me, Please Understand Me II, and Are You Fucking Deaf or Stupid or What? Why Can't You Understand Me?.
 

edcoaching

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Jun 30, 2008
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752
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Also, Kiersey didn't publish any reliability/validity data on his assessment until this year. The tool was created out of his own experience which is a bit different from researched test items. That said, the reliability data wasn't awful. I read it but didn't keep a copy of the paper. Sorry.

Myers-Briggs is just one of the tools that helps people figure out their Jungian personality type. There's also the Golden, the PTI, the JTI and lots of other unresearched "pop" quizzes. Once you know either what Kiersey defines as your temperament or what Jung described as your psychological type, then you can access tons of resources on relationships, work satisfaction, leadership coaching, marriage, parenting, spirituality, fitness, wellness, counseling, aging, midlife, stress management, education, team building...
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
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Mar 29, 2008
Messages
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Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Keirsey is temperament and Myers-Briggs is cognitive types. Theoretically they're supposed to correlate directly even though they're different models, so, yes, you have to be the same type in both systems.

I personally think of Keirsey as being related to the elements systems: earth, air, water, fire:

SJ - Earth
NT - Air
NF - Water
SP - Fire

Looking at it this way, it would explain why Keirsey thinks J-P makes a bigger difference to S types, and T-F a bigger difference to N types. It would be my answer to a question in another thread (sorry, can't remember the name of the thread) that asks why it's SJ and SP and not ST and SF, or why it's NT and NF rather than NP and NJ.

Myers-Briggs doesn't fit so neatly with the four elements system. ISTP, even though an SP according to Keirsey, is really a dominant Introverted Thinker according to Myers-Briggs. So elementally, should that be Fire or Air? Neither, it seems; or both. To me, that's how I can tell that the two systems are different.

Sorry if my response is a bit confusing. I just noticed that it isn't a completely direct answer to your question.

Keirsey got several things mixed up, there.

Originally, the four elements, tied to the four humours as follows:

Earth: Melancholic (cold, dry)
Air: Sanguine (hot, wet)
Fire: Choleric (hot, dry)
Water: Phlegmatic (cold, wet)

Notice, he has NF as water, yet claimed it was Choleric. (SJ he correctly has as both earth and Melancholic). Then fire and air were reversed as well, though it is understandable to associate Sanguine with fire. However, it better fit air, because the temperament is light, and not as serious and potentially destructive as Choleric. In either case, the shared "hotness" would represent the expressiveness or extroversion. Dryness is seriousness.

As to which element a type like ISTP would be, remember also, that there is another four temperament matrix interlayed in the types: the Interaction Styles. (These are sort of reverse of the Keirseyan groupings, with T/F making a bigger difference to S types, and J/P making a bigger difference to N types). So ISTP is Chart the Course (Melancholic), in addition to SP-Sanguine. So it would be both earth and air.
 

mlittrell

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Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Messages
1,387
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9w1
The types correlate. Also: Keirsey rules, and Myers & Briggs suck it.
they are all (keirsey (who does rule btw), Myers & Briggs, and Jung) essential to the system we have today.
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
Keirsey conceptualizes introversion and extroversion, as well as judging and perceiving slightly differently from MB's. It's not that far off, though, so there are lots of correlates. Also, I believe that temperaments are Keirsey's creation, not MBs'. Keirsey expanded his operations beyond the workforce to include relationships, which you can read about in his books Please Understand Me, Please Understand Me II, and Are You Fucking Deaf or Stupid or What? Why Can't You Understand Me?.

haha, thank you!
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
they are all (keirsey (who does rule btw), Myers & Briggs, and Jung) essential to the system we have today.

I would have to agree with you on that. Without the many different models, we would not have as in depth of a understanding of personality as we do. Although since personality types are just theoretical, there are still going to be a lot of flaws.
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
Keirsey is temperament and Myers-Briggs is cognitive types. Theoretically they're supposed to correlate directly even though they're different models, so, yes, you have to be the same type in both systems.

I personally think of Keirsey as being related to the elements systems: earth, air, water, fire:

SJ - Earth
NT - Air
NF - Water
SP - Fire

Looking at it this way, it would explain why Keirsey thinks J-P makes a bigger difference to S types, and T-F a bigger difference to N types. It would be my answer to a question in another thread (sorry, can't remember the name of the thread) that asks why it's SJ and SP and not ST and SF, or why it's NT and NF rather than NP and NJ.

Myers-Briggs doesn't fit so neatly with the four elements system. ISTP, even though an SP according to Keirsey, is really a dominant Introverted Thinker according to Myers-Briggs. So elementally, should that be Fire or Air? Neither, it seems; or both. To me, that's how I can tell that the two systems are different.

Sorry if my response is a bit confusing. I just noticed that it isn't a completely direct answer to your question.

No, your reponse was rather helpful. :D. So basically, there are some strong correlations between the two but also some major discrepancies?
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
Thank you everyone for your insights. Now I have a better understanding of the two.
 

mlittrell

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9w1
mbti is a model for something we dont understand (cognitive processes and subprocesses). for what it is, it is flawless. for understanding the brain as a whole...lol...well thats a different story.
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
mbti is a model for something we dont understand (cognitive processes and subprocesses). for what it is, it is flawless. for understanding the brain as a whole...lol...well thats a different story.

Well, I will admit that the cognitive processes of the INFJ sometimes uncannily match how I interact with the world. My NiFeTi are very strong and my Si is also fairly strong. Maybe that's why I continually tested as a sensor. (ex. ESTJ, ISFJ, ISTP, ISFP, ISTJ). I never tested as a N until I learned about the cognitive processes.
 

mlittrell

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if you took a function test i can tell you now its wrong about the Si. plus the tests in general are...for a lack of better words...pretty crappy. i wouldn't say horrible, but unless you take keirseys they are just..ehh. did the INFJ profile seem to jump out at you?
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
if you took a function test i can tell you now its wrong about the Si. plus the tests in general are...for a lack of better words...pretty crappy. i wouldn't say horrible, but unless you take keirseys they are just..ehh. did the INFJ profile seem to jump out at you?

The Keirsey profile did not really sound like me but almost everything else jumped out at me. Oh by the way, I did not take a CP test, it was just my opinion.

Here's some of my Si behavior:
I remember historical dates, doctor's appointments w/o writing them down, some things people say and I say, what people like and don't like. I sometimes connect past experiences with the present and become very nostalgic. But the reason why I don't think I dominant Si (ISFJ) is because I'm detail-oriented only on certain things and on many other things I'm more oblivious and the SJ temperament does not seem like me.
So for me, I'm probably Ni Fe Ti Si Ne Fi Te Se even though it goes against the theory.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what Si is?
 

mlittrell

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thats what i think it is. my mom is an INFJ and she is everything that you just described. also the functions dont work like that (Ni, Fe, Ti, Si) now i would immediately say that you are creating a synthetic version of Si by using Se and Ti together. also, if you think about it, your Se is filtering through two other introverted functions. thats all just personal ideas that im thinking of so take it very lightly. now, if you think that you are using Si (and though that isn't possible theory-wise lets assume that true) it would be shadow function and would be an unconscious cognitive process that wouldn't be immediately accessible or manifest itself directly.
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
thats what i think it is. my mom is an INFJ and she is everything that you just described. also the functions dont work like that (Ni, Fe, Ti, Si) now i would immediately say that you are creating a synthetic version of Si by using Se and Ti together. also, if you think about it, your Se is filtering through two other introverted functions. thats all just personal ideas that im thinking of so take it very lightly. now, if you think that you are using Si (and though that isn't possible theory-wise lets assume that true) it would be shadow function and would be an unconscious cognitive process that wouldn't be immediately accessible or manifest itself directly.

I think you have a much better understanding of it than I do so I trust your assessment. :) That definitely makes sense because it seems like I use Si a lot more than Se but not nearly as much as Ni Fe Ti. Thank you!
 
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