[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Recognizing Te and Ti discussion/argument style

[Dashy CVII]

Also by their description, Te/Fi types care more about their own values than the values of others (which has little to do with F,) and then they can't do their own thinking, if you can factually call it cognitive 'Thinking.' It's the most insulting description to Te/Fi types I've seen around on these parts! This is why I say, find something useful and meaningful for understanding the people around you, something typology has thoroughly accomplished with our descriptions of Te, Ti, Fe, and Fi. It doesn't have to be my description on Ti/Te, even though I particularly enjoy my description.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

What Thinking (Te/Ti) isn't is letting others and the group make important decisions for you or making them together. Yes it's absolutely essential in this day and age to trust scientific knowledge, experts in their individual fields, to be cooperative in group environments like a project or workplace, and to be communicative and sensical if you want to advance your ideas. In everyday life however, the Thinking type does his/her own thinking, about all important matters, always. If it's something we feel we can entrust to someone else, it's moved along.

If you say this about thinking, then it must stand for feeling, and that just isn't the case. Je is frequently oriented toward some level of consensus. Perhaps you'll see it more in tertiary/inferior Je types due to a lack of confidence, but it's still there as a whole.

Every time this thread surfaces and I read this, I think I must be misunderstanding this.

I mean, you identify as an NFP. Which is supposedly a Te-preferring type. So (assuming you subscribe to type theory and) by disagreeing with this paragraph, are you saying that you do let the group do your thinking for you? More than TPs or FJs?

 

[highlander]

Fixed. As far as 'speed' of thought, the speed of Ti/Te depends on if it's the individual's primary function, seeking resolve, or if P is their primary function, seeking exploration. For INTPs and ENTJs, T has no perceiving primary function to elongate it. These types are primary judgers who come to quick decisions.

The true difference between Ti and Te, since they're both inclined to deep thought and decisiveness, is whether it comes to decisions via a firm internal worldview (Ti) where the "definitions" are clear and assured (Ti), Or whether its rationale is about individual external contexts (Te) where the "factors" are clear and assured (Te.) That's usually why they say thinking is thinking, xNTJ does whatever an xNTP can do, but they have different values cognitively:

The introverted function is manifesting viewpoints via -> the subject, while the extraverted function is processing base information via <- the outside. Thus xNTJs stay with an open-minded worldview (Pi) while preferring resolve in factual summaries (Je.) xNTPs stay with building a solid worldview (Ji) while preferring participation in the change of new outside perceptions (Pe.)

Thus, xNTJs will look at one thing in a hundred different ways (JePi), while xNTPs will look at a hundred things in the same way (PeJi). The 'way' is the internal processing (Xi), the 'thing' is the outside objective fact (Xe) we're dealing with. This is the J vs P difference in general. Has very little to do with if you have a decisive tendency to life, that is if you're Judging primary or not. Nothing to do with Te. Te is about assuming order to outside factors and objects.

True J vs P thus is about whether the external situation has been summarized and an object chosen, or whether the external situation has been left open to perceive and an object not yet chosen. I hope this opens you up to the more rational and technically correct way of viewing the cognitive functions as they occur.

Of all the things in this thread, these things resonate with me the most. I'm in consulting and we use frameworks a lot . I like them because they are useful in framing your thinking and you can see what parts might be missed but I am not talented at developing them. I think people who prefer Ti are better at developing things like this. I am very much a Te vs Ti style thinker . I don't care if the thinking is right . What matters to me is that the answer is right . What makes it right? It is most likely to result in desired outcomes . It leads to results . It's right. It's fair . Etc .Ti thinkers tend to be more about the process whereas Te thinkers are about the outcome . Interestingly I have found that depending on your profession you develop certain kinds of thinking styles . While Im fascinated by shiny new objects, I'm a businessman and I want things that are practical and work . If I were a scientist, my style of thinking might look like Ti because I'm around so many people who think that way I would too. But no I don't want or need a clear and comprehensive framework to make decisions by .It's way to damn confining and realities change. The future is unpredictable. Think about all the factors, concrete evidence, likely outcomes and make a decision. Decisions don't need to be perfect or forever if they don't work or are wrong you can change them.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Every time this thread surfaces and I read this, I think I must be misunderstanding this.

I mean, you identify as an NFP. Which is supposedly a Te-preferring type. So (assuming you subscribe to type theory and) by disagreeing with this paragraph, are you saying that you do let the group do your thinking for you? More than TPs or FJs?

No, not at all. I do like to think out loud though, and sometimes simple decisions can feel stressful to me, like where to eat if our primary plan falls through. It's stressful because I see 227 options, but I still wanna make sure my partner is happy with where we go, so I prefer to decide together. For harder decisions, I like to discuss options and hear logical feedback. Telling me "go with your heart" does not help... I wanna hear "okay, well that won't work because _______" or "that sounds like a great plan".

For decisions at work that involve things like fairness and efficiency and quality of completed tasks, I usually throw out suggestions and want people to see the value in those suggestions and agree, or at least compromise.

I'm very stubborn for certain things though.

 

[Dreamer]

No, not at all. I do like to think out loud though, and sometimes simple decisions can feel stressful to me, like where to eat if our primary plan falls through. It's stressful because I see 227 options, but I still wanna make sure my partner is happy with where we go, so I prefer to decide together. For harder decisions, I like to discuss options and hear logical feedback. Telling me "go with your heart" does not help... I wanna hear "okay, well that won't work because _______" or "that sounds like a great plan".

For decisions at work that involve things like fairness and efficiency and quality of completed tasks, I usually throw out suggestions and want people to see the value in those suggestions and agree, or at least compromise.

I'm very stubborn for certain things though.

Seriously, what I’ve found that can work wonders for me when trying to decide between hundreds of options is to ask the other person, “what’s your deal?” Or basically, what are they trying to get out of the situation? If we’re both hungry, I’ll ask the other person, what kind of cuisine do you want? What sort of environment? Asking these sorts of questions very quickly narrows down that bajillions of options out there and it takes SO much anxiety off my shoulders. And, because I’m asking the other person what they are sort of gravitating towards, it takes the burden off my hands for having to decide because at that point, it’s more about solving a problem for someone else. I’m usually super easy going with group stuff and what we do, so that’s why I tend to defer to others’ opinions, the ones that would complain most often.

Now, trying to decide what I wanna eat or do when I’m alone...nope, haven’t figured that one out yet