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Thread: INFJ vs INFP

  1. #11
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heather235 View Post
    I've tested both INFP and INFJ. I recently read the post about role in groups, and I believe I am more Behind-the-Scenes than Chart-the-Course, and I understand Behind-the-Scenes is more INFP. I'm also famed for how I can flit from idea to idea, which I believe is more INFP.
    Although a friend from Columbia feels that zooming from idea to idea, ending up miles from where you started is classically Latino. Note: I am not Latino myself, so can't really comment on what is classically Latino :-) But yes, my Columbian friend is very much an idea flitter himself.
    According to the research done by the official MBTI folks, used by Isabel Briggs Meyers in Gifts Differing, there are strong connections to anyone sharing a letter, independent of anything else. INFPs and INFJs go about very differently, but can appear similar. Likewise, INTPs and INFPs can look similar.

    One good way to tell the difference is to look at them under stress, when they are in the grip of the inferior function. INFPs act like bad versions of a worse caricature of a ESTJ, while INFJs become spendthrift wild party animals.

    Also, Ne users tend to broaden their perspective when looking at the future, while Ni users tend to narrow to just one vision.

    Don't go by stereotypes that INFPs are hippies and INFJs are mystics, or crazy ideas like that.

    And both can hold strong individual values and either can conform to a group.
    “Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984

    “It is clear that thought is not free if the profession of certain opinions makes it impossible to earn a living. It is clear also that thought is not free if all the arguments on one side of a controversy are perpetually presented as attractively as possible, while the arguments on the other side can only be discovered by diligent search.”

    ― Bertrand Russell, Sceptical Essays

  2. #12
    Senior Member Turi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notmyapples View Post
    Fe does not equal selfless and Fi does not equal selfish.
    It literally does, remove F and we're speaking about introversion and extraversion.
    These are literally an orientation towards the outer world and objective data (e), and an orientation towards yourself and your own subjective data (i).

    So I mean, it literally is "selfless" vs "selfish" you just have to remove any positive and negative connotations from the words and understand them for what they actually are.
    Orientations outwards ie self-"less" - extraversion, and inwards ie of the self ie self-"ish" - introversion.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turi View Post
    It literally does, remove F and we're speaking about introversion and extraversion.
    These are literally an orientation towards the outer world and objective data (e), and an orientation towards yourself and your own subjective data (i).

    So I mean, it literally is "selfless" vs "selfish" you just have to remove any positive and negative connotations from the words and understand them for what they actually are.
    Orientations outwards ie self-"less" - extraversion, and inwards ie of the self ie self-"ish" - introversion.
    It literally doesn't. Selfless vs selfish isn't defined by whether you are oriented around the self or not, it's defined by how much you value the needs and desires of yourself versus others. Those are the definitions of the words, that is the context people use it in when applying them to Fe and Fi. If you are implying that Fi places it's own needs above others any more often than Fe does then you're just plain wrong.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Turi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notmyapples View Post
    It literally doesn't. Selfless vs selfish isn't defined by whether you are oriented around the self or not, it's defined by how much you value the needs and desires of yourself versus others. Those are the definitions of the words, that is the context people use it in when applying them to Fe and Fi. If you are implying that Fi places it's own needs above others any more often than Fe does then you're just plain wrong.
    Except, I'm not wrong.

    Selfless - "concerned more with the needs and wishes of others than with one's own".
    Selfish - "(of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for other people; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure."

    Whether you, or anyone else agrees with me or not doesn't matter - fact of the matter is, the above fit extraversion for selfless, and introversion for selfish - feel free to read some Jung, I'm coming from a Jungian perspective.

    Extraversion is oriented outwards towards objective data - this fits the idea of being more concerned with the needs of others etc etc than your own.
    Introversion is an orientation inwards, towards subjective data - this fits the idea of being more concerned with what you yourself think/feel etc etc than those of others.

    It's as simple as that, I'm down for a debate, if you're capable.

  5. #15
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    Here's my interp: i vs e for functions is about where the criterion for the judgment comes from---within vs without. That means that a Fi-dom can put another's pleasure above the Fi-dom's own, if the Fi-dom sees being this way as 'who they are' -- in this way, the criterion is coming from within, but the actions themselves are what society in basic lingo would call 'selfless.'

    I get this vibe from Arwen in LOTR, as in the movies. Seems very Fi-ish, but often this will include enduring hardship or danger for others.
    Likes Turi liked this post

  6. #16
    Senior Member Turi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GavinElster View Post
    Here's my interp: i vs e for functions is about where the criterion for the judgment comes from---within vs without. That means that a Fi-dom can put another's pleasure above the Fi-dom's own, if the Fi-dom sees being this way as 'who they are' -- in this way, the criterion is coming from within, but the actions themselves are what society in basic lingo would call 'selfless.'
    Within vs without - exactly, that's my position, from yourself (i) or outside yourself (e).

    I completely agree - Fi types can put others pleasure above their own, absolutely - but it's still (theoretically) going to be a self-driven position - it's not others oriented, it's looking at yourself and deciding you value the others pleasure above your own - so, it's still searching within yourself (i) for an answer, even if that answer appears on the surface to be self-"less".

    I'm not saying all Fi/Ti people are "selfish", insofar as all the negative connotations are concerned - just that, introversion in general is inwards - so, it's literally self-above-others in that respect. What the person does with that is on them.
    Likes GavinElster liked this post

  7. #17
    Senior Member great_bay's Avatar
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    INFP-Theorist while focusing on inner feelings
    INFJ- Foresees implications how other people feel
    5w4,4w5,1

    The Researcher

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turi View Post
    Within vs without - exactly, that's my position, from yourself (i) or outside yourself (e). I completely agree - Fi types can put others pleasure above their own, absolutely - but it's still (theoretically) going to be a self-driven position - it's not others oriented, it's looking at yourself and deciding you value the others pleasure above your own - so, it's still searching within yourself (i) for an answer, even if that answer appears on the surface to be self-"less". I'm not saying all Fi/Ti people are "selfish", insofar as all the negative connotations are concerned - just that, introversion in general is inwards - so, it's literally self-above-others in that respect. What the person does with that is on them.
    They are judging functions, not perceiving functions. So by your logic it should be Fi = judge self, Fe = judge others.

    Note that most Fi types have extroverted perceiving too, so typically a good awareness of surroundings and that is where they usually search for information.

    For threads like this where people are looking at understanding types, I think it is better to start from reality and what people of these types seem to be like, rather than trying to define things using assumed meanings of words and isolated logic.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Turi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueScreen View Post
    They are judging functions, not perceiving functions. So by your logic it should be Fi = judge self, Fe = judge others. Note that most Fi types have extroverted perceiving too, so typically a good awareness of surroundings and that is where they usually search for information. For threads like this where people are looking at understanding types, I think it is better to start from reality and what people of these types seem to be like, rather than trying to define things using assumed meanings of words and isolated logic.
    This is really wrong. You should do some reading up on Judging in MBTI and also Jungs rational types.

    It's not related to "judging" in the sense you're understanding the word.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turi View Post
    This is really wrong. You should do some reading up on Judging in MBTI and also Jungs rational types. It's not related to "judging" in the sense you're understanding the word.
    I thought we were playing the use dictionary definitions and ignore reality game. Sorry, my mistake.

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