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  1. #11
    Potential is My Addiction Dreamer's Avatar
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    Awesome, thanks for the link!
    The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams
    -Eleanor Roosevelt


    ~Always, an Enthusiastic_Dreamer

  2. #12
    Phase-shifted beam Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    @Coriolis, would you happen to have any thoughts on any differences in patterns of text or thoughts expressed between the two function orders?
    I have copied the OP example below, and annotated it based on what J functions I see at work. This sorting is very top-level. Feel free to ask if you want further clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ely View Post
    Friend 1 said that if having a livable wage would fuck up the economy because that's just how capitalism works, we need to realize that capitalism is the problem.
    Fi supported by Te: Friend 1 is assigning relative values to the existence of a capitalist economy vs. a living wage, using a hypothetical cause-effect relationship as a threshold or criterion, implication being if a living wage doesn't mess up the economy (something that could be observed, hence Te), then capitalism would be OK (Fi value judgment).

    I commented that there is a trade-off between a higher min wage and an increase in unemployment and possibly also inflation, and I don't think there is a perfect solution.
    Seems more Ti: looking at the economic theory of how wages, unemployment, and inflation interrelate; and observing almost in a tautological sense that there is no perfect solution. Te is by contrast usually quite content with the 90% solution that can actually be implemented and make thinges better, if not perfect. Now an attempt to document that tradeoff by making observations about functioning economies over time relative to various influences would be more Te.

    Friend 2 mentioned how some studies have found that increasing the minimum wage didn't increase unemployment significantly.
    Te: providing external data to support a position.

    I countered that there are certain situations in which this could happen; if the minimum wages are initially very low they might be way below what e.g. the average fast food worker contributes to the company, so even after increasing the minimum wages it's still a net gain for companies to hire them. Another possibility is that there are confounding factors which hide an existing effect.
    A mixture of Ti and Te in that it considers hypotheticals, but does tie them to effects observable in the real world. If I had to choose one, it would be Ti/Ne.

    Friend 2's response to this was that the economy is a complex system and we can't be sure what the effect of a policy change was.
    Again, more Ti in focusing on the need for an all-encompassing and perfect solution, and the reality of how elusive that generally is.

    I generally maintain that I'll change my mind about pretty much anything, if I encounter proof of why I'm wrong... but tbh I just can't believe that there is no tradeoff between minimum wages and unemployment, as a rule. I just can't see how increasing minimum wages indefinitely wouldn't eventually lead to an increase in unemployment. (On an ethical level, I'd prefer that everyone had a good standard of living and I'm not opposed to having social security for unemployed people. If anything, I'd prefer to believe that there is no tradeoff, but I can't make sense of how it could be possible...)
    On balance this seems a mostly Te/Fi approach, in that it seeks evidence from external reality to support a change of position, and articulates personal values.
    Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. ~ Buddha
    Likes ugghh, Ely liked this post

  3. #13
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