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  1. #1
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Default Would this match your experience of the 8th place function?

    Been realizing more and more the connection of the "Demonic Personality" archetype/complex and "inner objects" (and the "anima", associated with the inferior function deals in inner "object"-relations), especially in light of Beebe's mention in his book that the complex is in particular, "pathologically narcissistic", and seeks "integrity" (and in the wrong way). I've come to see how this plays out in my own psyche. My father (who was rather abusive at times, especially when I was having trouble adapting to the world, and he thought I needed sharp "motivational" rhetoric, so there was a lot of "truth" about "life", but no emotional support) became the main basis of this "object" for me. I come to hear this voice telling me I'm doing wrong (Fi), and project it onto people in positions who talk authoritatively. I look to the world through the inferior (Fe), and this "object" constantly attacks this, making the ego feel gravely threatened at its core.

    So I took this, and extended it the other judgment functions easily, but found it a bit more difficult to do the perception functions. As a judgment dominant type (where the whole "spine" or 1-4-5-8 functions) are about determining "right/wrong", I by experience don't really know what it's like to have a dominant ego perspective (and thus, spine) that lives to only take in information. I figure if the "Rational" daemonic "object" makes you "wrong" (challenges what's "right" regarding you), then the irrational one challenges what "is" regarding you, somehow.

    So can anyone else identify with this? You would look for the inner "voice" that is always trying to "undermine" ego's dominant goal, through the opposite function in the same attitude as the dominant.


    “Demonic” judgment devalues the ego (makes it “wrong”)

    Fi “demon” object says you are internally a bad person (especially for your internal logical conclusions). You fight it through moral narcissism (e.g. self justification) and trying to “take down” others' moral stances.

    Ti “demon” object tells you you are stupid (especially for your internal feelings). You fight it through intellectual narcissism, and sometimes trying to take down others intellectually.

    Fe “demon” object tells you no one appreciates you (for your logical ordering). You fight it through social narcissism, and try to take down others socially

    Te “demon” object tells you you are inefficient (particularly at serving others). You fight it by through organizational narcissism, and try to take down others' organization.


    “Demonic” perception [negates the ego's {presence; knowledge; awareness; ability}? Makes it insignificant?]

    Se “demon" object observes your ineptitude in the current situation? You fight it by narcissistically trying to prove your ability, often in a rash fashion

    Ni “demon” object observes negative “big pictures”. You fight it through narcissistically claiming to know what will happen in the future.

    Si “demon” object observes negative past experience. You fight it through narcissistically denying the reality of your role in situations or manufacturing alternate histories

    Ne “demon” object observes negative hypothetical possibilities [in which you are extremely limited?]. You fight it through narcissistically taking wild chances [even apart from your normal sensory focus which knows when something is truly possible; i.e “do-able” in the current moment].
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  2. #2
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    My 8th function is Se. I can relate somewhat (doubting my own capabilities and feeling the need to prove myself), and i think this is a very well thought out piece. I just tend not to notice Se honestly. Of course we in theory use all 8 functions to some degree. I just feel that Se is never consciously on my radar or has been only a handful of times.

  3. #3
    Talk to me. Merced's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Fe “demon” object tells you no one appreciates you (for your logical ordering). You fight it through social narcissism, and try to take down others socially
    I know for a fact that I am e2, so I identify with this deeply but I can't say whether not it is a result of functional preferences, a side effect of being 2w3, or just general hang ups that I have accumulated.

    Could you elaborate on the differences between the Te and Fe demons, as well as the differences between the Ne and Se demons?
    I am currently looking for someone to give me an in depth typing. Willing to pay money.

  4. #4
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucieCat View Post
    My 8th function is Se. I can relate somewhat (doubting my own capabilities and feeling the need to prove myself), and i think this is a very well thought out piece. I just tend not to notice Se honestly. Of course we in theory use all 8 functions to some degree. I just feel that Se is never consciously on my radar or has been only a handful of times.
    Thanks! Rather than "use all functions", I now put it in terms of the products of all functions (i.e. what each function sorts out of an otherwise undivided reality) are normally undifferentiated (meaning "mixed together" in every situation), and that when we speak of them as functions (i.e. differentiated), it's because either the ego, or another complex, has sorted it out. So this "Demonic Personality" is the one that takes hold of the eight function, and generally tends to "use" it in an "undermining" way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merced View Post
    I know for a fact that I am e2, so I identify with this deeply but I can't say whether not it is a result of functional preferences, a side effect of being 2w3, or just general hang ups that I have accumulated.
    Oh, that's one of those rare pairings, though PersonalityHacker has done profiles of all possible MBTI/Enneagram combos, so I guess it's legitimate. Don't know how that works, when 2 seems very F-like (usually associated with Fe, but then the EFP's get it commonly too).
    Could you elaborate on the differences between the Te and Fe demons, as well as the differences between the Ne and Se demons?
    Well, the difference is simply the functional perspective (Te vs Fe and Se vs Ne), and that perspective is what this complex will use to undermine the ego somehow.
    If you're Te dominant, then you will approach the world very impersonally, and considerations of humanness in general (in its own right, not just as objects or part of goals) will be less conscious, (but still needed, in dealing with people) and so will be a "weak spot". You'll generally tend to turn inward to gauge others through your own values, but this will be very vulnerable, and you'll fear, ultimately, that externally that your worth is in question, and thus in certain negative situations, look for clues of not being appreciated by others.
    Fe dominant approaches the world very interpersonally, and logical order is less conscious, but also needed, so that will be a weak spot. They turn inward to determine for themselves what's true or false, but when applying it in the real world, will struggle with being judged totally inefficient, and may try to overdo it (My wife is Fe dominant, so I see this all the time).

    Again, the perception functions I don't understand as well in "spine" positions, and Ne/Se were the hardest to put together. (I grew up with ISTJ's, and so could figure how demonic Ni was playing out, and I've seen evidence of demonic Si in INJ's).
    But Se involves current tangible reality, in which you can take action according to what's before you, and Ne is about possibilities not yet readily doable, but involves changing something. So both may involve taking wild chances, but for Ne, you're setting aside your normal focus on what's actually doable, and leaping into the hypothetical, and for Se, you're I imagine acting as if your picture of what's "possible" is actually immediately doable, even if it isn't.
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    Talk to me. Merced's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Oh, that's one of those rare pairings, though PersonalityHacker has done profiles of all possible MBTI/Enneagram combos, so I guess it's legitimate. Don't know how that works, when 2 seems very F-like (usually associated with Fe, but then the EFP's get it commonly too).
    Try not to get too caught up sources like that. Enneagram and MBTI measure two separate things, so your typing in the two systems are mutually exclusive.

    Well, the difference is simply the functional perspective (Te vs Fe and Se vs Ne), and that perspective is what this complex will use to undermine the ego somehow.
    If you're Te dominant, then you will approach the world very impersonally, and considerations of humanness in general (in its own right, not just as objects or part of goals) will be less conscious, (but still needed, in dealing with people) and so will be a "weak spot". You'll generally tend to turn inward to gauge others through your own values, but this will be very vulnerable, and you'll fear, ultimately, that externally that your worth is in question, and thus in certain negative situations, look for clues of not being appreciated by others.
    Fe dominant approaches the world very interpersonally, and logical order is less conscious, but also needed, so that will be a weak spot. They turn inward to determine for themselves what's true or false, but when applying it in the real world, will struggle with being judged totally inefficient, and may try to overdo it (My wife is Fe dominant, so I see this all the time).

    Again, the perception functions I don't understand as well in "spine" positions, and Ne/Se were the hardest to put together. (I grew up with ISTJ's, and so could figure how demonic Ni was playing out, and I've seen evidence of demonic Si in INJ's).
    But Se involves current tangible reality, in which you can take action according to what's before you, and Ne is about possibilities not yet readily doable, but involves changing something. So both may involve taking wild chances, but for Ne, you're setting aside your normal focus on what's actually doable, and leaping into the hypothetical, and for Se, you're I imagine acting as if your picture of what's "possible" is actually immediately doable, even if it isn't.
    Ah, thanks. I see what you mean here.
    I am currently looking for someone to give me an in depth typing. Willing to pay money.

  6. #6
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merced View Post
    Try not to get too caught up sources like that. Enneagram and MBTI measure two separate things, so your typing in the two systems are mutually exclusive.
    When you mentioned Enneagram, it seemed to be in conjunction with what you quoted regarding Fe, so I thought you were comparing them or saying it affected how Fe played out for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    When you mentioned Enneagram, it seemed to be in conjunction with what you quoted regarding Fe, so I thought you were comparing them or saying it affected how Fe played out for you.
    Ohh, I get what you mean. My bad
    I am currently looking for someone to give me an in depth typing. Willing to pay money.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Fi “demon” object says you are internally a bad person (especially for your internal logical conclusions). You fight it through moral narcissism (e.g. self justification) and trying to “take down” others' moral stances.
    Yup, very much so.

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    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Yup, very much so.
    You mean for yourself? If ENFJ, the Demonic personality would be Te (reflecting the dom. Fe.) Demonic Fi is for Ti doms. only.
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  10. #10
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    @Eric B

    Well, I can relate to three of them in a "demonic" sense, Fe, Te, and Se, although my actual 8th function is supposed to be Se.

    Fe “demon” object tells you no one appreciates you (for your logical ordering). You fight it through social narcissism, and try to take down others socially

    I can relate to feeling unappreciated, despite feeling like I have to try 10x as hard as a more "likable" person to live up to what I perceive as the performance standards, and even then, being considered the most expendable person. (I'm not sure what you mean by "for your logical ordering". Unappreciated for your logical ordering?)

    Te “demon” object tells you you are inefficient (particularly at serving others).

    I try very hard to be efficient and to be an excellent part of any team. This is similar to the Fe one, above, in that I feel like no matter how efficiently I work, and no matter how hard I try and how much I get done, it never seems to be enough to satisfy others. What really happens, though, is that they get pissed because of arbitrary reasons like "You didn't kiss my ass that day when I bent over and told you to," and despite my excellent performance, they say, "Your performance was half-assed. You failed to fulfill the requirements," even though that's not true; I exceeded the requirements. What this makes me feel like is that I'm inefficient, even though I'm not, and not at serving others--it makes me feel manipulated into a position in which "my place in life is to serve others," to go get them coffee and bullshit like that, when that's not my job. (I've had jobs that were straightforward coffee-pouring jobs, but that's not what I'm talking about.)

    You fight it by through organizational narcissism, and try to take down others' organization.

    Nah. I'm fighting it by training for a new career in a field that I hope attracts more down-to-earth types of people than my old field. So far, so good. I don't have a problem with organization (except for being somewhat prone to disorganization myself). I appreciate reliability. It's an admirable trait, and I work hard to be reliable. I'm not interested in sabotaging others' hard work and organization.

    Se “demon" object observes your ineptitude in the current situation?

    I feel less adept at physical situations, like finding a radial pulse on a medical actor. I can get the whole theory and routine down perfectly, but when it comes to taking vital signs, it's trickier. Finding the pulse, also deflating the blood pressure cuff at the right speed. I don't have trouble with driving, though; I drive like I know what I'm doing, and I do. So I'm sure that with practice, I will get better at specific physical actions, though I might not be a natural at first try.

    You fight it by narcissistically trying to prove your ability, often in a rash fashion

    LOL. I don't know; maybe? I'd have to ask people I work with if I come across this way. I would say that there's a chance.

    I don't think I "narcissistically" try to prove my ability. I do try very hard actually to be capable, though, because I'm afraid that, at heart, "inside", I'm really just a slob who can't get shit done.
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