[Other/Multiple Temperaments] Fs whose values are T things?

[Mind Maverick]

We all naturally use one mode of operation within each category more easily and more frequently than we use the other mode of operation. So, we are said to "prefer" one function over the other. The combination of our four "preferences" defines our personality type. Although everybody functions across the entire spectrum of the preferences, each individual has a natural preference which leans in one direction or the other within the four categories.

Our Flow of Energy defines how we receive the essential part of our stimulation. Do we receive it from within ourselves (Introverted) or from external sources (Extraverted)? Is our dominant function focused externally or internally?

The topic of how we Take in Information deals with our preferred method of taking in and absorbing information. Do we trust our five senses (Sensing) to take in information, or do we rely on our instincts (iNtuitive)?

The third type of preference, how we prefer to Make Decisions, refers to whether we are prone to decide things based on logic and objective consideration (Thinking), or based on our personal, subjective value systems (Feeling).

These first three preferences were the basis of Jung's theory of Personalty Types. Isabel Briggs Myers developed the theory of the fourth preference, which is concerned with how we deal with the external world on a Day-to-day Basis. Are we organized and purposeful, and more comfortable with scheduled, structured environments (Judging), or are we flexible and diverse, and more comfortable with open, casual environments (Perceiving)? From a theoretical perspective, we know that if our highest Extraverted function is a Decision Making function, we prefer Judging. If our highest Extraverted function is an Information Gathering function, we prefer Perceiving.

Source: Information About Personality Type

So I was reading on this site and a thought occurred to me:
what if an F's personal, subjective value system was to be a T?
Like, say they were raised this way by a T and believe or feel very strongly that this is the right way to be...

Thoughts anyone?

Edit - I may just not be understanding Fs? When I read about F stuff I struggle to understand it.

 

[Yama]

Feeling is a rational function just like Thinking is. Honestly, the dichotomies are too extreme and very few people fall into one of the other neatly.

I understand what you mean though. For example, FJ males / men who value Fe often time appear to be Thinkers, because it aligns more with their "role" in society, and Fe is quite attuned to these roles.

But there is a difference between a Thinker, and a Feeler who wants to be a Thinker.

In the end, it's about cognitive preferences and what comes to us naturally, and how we think rather than what we do. And after all, we all have a Feeling and a Thinking function in us somewhere.

 

[Yama]

I should probably add that I mean feeling is a Rational function with a capital R, not little r, and jsut make that distinction. I mean Jungian Rational, not like logical rational, lol. (Although it can be that too.)

 

[Lead Guitar Wankery]

So I was reading on this site and a thought occurred to me:
what if an F's personal, subjective value system was to be a T?

Such people are prime suspects for mistyping as Thinkers.

On the other hand, if such a person consistently acts on that value system from early enough in life, maybe she would be a Thinker, just one who had developed a preference a bit more consciously than other people developed their cognitive preferences. But that seems unlikely because it would have to start in childhood.

 

[á´…eparted]

Kind of describes me, TBH.

 

[notmyapples]

You cannot healthily value becoming someone else. You can value the traits often associated with being a T, like logic or concrete thinking, but to value becoming someone you would have to actively be making efforts to change yourself. And do I think this is possible for an F? No. You cannot change who you are. If you are an F, you are a natural feeler and trying to overuse your low order Tx function will only cause unhealthy effects. You can use your Tx functions to help support your Fx functions, but you cannot replace your F with T.

But can you be a healthy feeler who values logic? Yes, definitely. A good amount do, but those people also value the things that make them who they are. You can experience life emotionally but still use logic to back that emotion up and vice versa, that process should not interfere with your core being. Personal, subjective value systems don't have to be illogical.

Off-topic but honestly, I'm really getting tired of the stigma that feelers need to develop their Tx function but thinkers don't because feelings are useless. A healthy type should be using all their functions properly in the right stacking. I think that every type should work on their lower functions, but it seems like some are expected to do this more than others.

 

[Coriolis]

Off-topic but honestly, I'm really getting tired of the stigma that feelers need to develop their Tx function but thinkers don't because feelings are useless. A healthy type should be using all their functions properly in the right stacking. I think that every type should work on their lower functions, but it seems like some are expected to do this more than others.

I must agree with this, at least in a general sense. I am not sure there is universal agreement on what constitutes the "right" stacking, just some prevailing models that are difficult to validate. But everyone both thinks and feels, or more accurately, applies both objective (logic) and subjective (values) judgment in life. We will either do this well, or do this poorly, depending on how much attention we give to that aspect. Our feelings will indeed be useless, or worse, harmful, if we cannot address them constructively. In general, we do better to develop our strengths than to work on our weaknesses, but some minimum proficiency across the board is needed, as well as the willingness to accept help or collaboration from people whose skills and preferences complement our own.

As for the need to be yourself, I agree entirely. I for one find it almost impossible to do anything else, and the thought of even trying makes me want to go crawl under a stone somewhere.

 

[Norexan]

Fs types who has Te or Ti as their ter function could project themselves as real T types.
It is like people who has ter Ni or Si who view themselves as J types as well and project it well.

 

[notmyapples]

Fs types who has Te or Ti as their ter function could project themselves as real T types.
It is like people who has ter Ni or Si who view themselves as J types as well and project it well.

This is very possible and does cause mistyping. I'm not sure why, but many types seem to have a fascination with their tertiary functions. Maybe it's because you're both conscious of it since it is low-order and it functions more naturally in comparison to your inferior, but this still shouldn't be able to override your dominant, even in a mistyping scenario.

 

[Jaguar]

Good question and, yes.

A perfect case is from this forum. There was a guy who had my type in his profile for years. The problem was, nearly every argument of his was based on an obvious moral compass and righteous indignation. (Where the hell was the logic?) He posted with force which led many people to buy his type even more, but my eye was where it should be - his arguments. I thought he was ENFP, not ENTJ. It was that obvious to me. I decided to take a walk through his old threads since I had a hunch I'd find the answer, hiding. I did. He started a thread asking whether he was ENFP or ENFJ. In that thread he admitted that his STJ father probably "trained" him to be an ENTJ. Trained? I'm guessing his father was an STJ military-type prick, hammering the ENFP's idealism right out of him and now the ENFP was forced to "TJ" his way through life so Daddy would approve.

For years people thought this guy was the classic ENTJ. Why? Force. That's about it. If I had a dollar for every NFP typed as a TJ because of their mouth . . . we even went through a run of female ENFPs suddenly typing themselves as ESTJs. I'm talking about women who we already knew were ENFPs, then got a wild hair up their ass and decided to start a thread proclaiming "I have a Te hammer!" (Notice the force reference, again?) Typically, the thread would go on and on and on and on and on and on and on until an INTP and myself stepped in and asked if everyone in the thread had gone mad. Type is not about force or pleasing Daddy. The goal is to become whole.

 

[Tilt]

I am most likely F-dom and I place high value on logic....in the truest sense of the word because I like things to make sense and follow some sort of coherent order.

 

[Tilt]

Good question and, yes.

A perfect case is from this forum. There was a guy who had my type in his profile for years. The problem was, nearly every argument of his was based on an obvious moral compass and righteous indignation. (Where the hell was the logic?) He posted with force which led many people to buy his type even more, but my eye was where it should be - his arguments. I thought he was ENFP, not ENTJ. It was that obvious to me. I decided to take a walk through his old threads since I had a hunch I'd find the answer, hiding. I did. He started a thread asking whether he was ENFP or ENFJ. In that thread he admitted that his STJ father probably "trained" him to be an ENTJ. Trained? I'm guessing his father was an STJ military-type prick, hammering the ENFP's idealism right out of him and now the ENFP was forced to "TJ" his way through life so Daddy would approve.

For years people thought this guy was the classic ENTJ. Why? Force. That's about it. If I had a dollar for every NFP typed as a TJ because of their mouth . . . we even went through a run of female ENFPs suddenly typing themselves as ESTJs. I'm talking about women who we already knew were ENFPs, then got a wild hair up their ass and decided to start a thread proclaiming "I have a Te hammer!" (Notice the force reference, again?) Typically, the thread would go on and on and on and on and on and on and on until an INTP and myself stepped in and asked if everyone in the thread had gone mad. Type is not about force or pleasing Daddy. The goal is to become whole.

Isn't the "Te Hammer" the perfect example of describing one's tertiary (childlike) function? I always found that ironic. It's interesting how tertiary functions play out. Like with ENxJs, tertiary Se seems to give sudden flashes of environmental astuteness and an urgency to set things into motion at the present moment.

 

[Norexan]

This is very possible and does cause mistyping. I'm not sure why, but many types seem to have a fascination with their tertiary functions. Maybe it's because you're both conscious of it since it is low-order and it functions more naturally in comparison to your inferior, but this still shouldn't be able to override your dominant, even in a mistyping scenario.

You ter function can be ignored as well controlled while your inf function cannot. Most like you are very little aware of what does it do now. For example my feelings suddenly appear without any consequences and this is what confuse me most while on the same time I have little understanding of others feelings (mechanism), I cannot manipulate other feelings to get what I want. But yeah I can appear as funny, spunky and smiling person while on the same time inside there is nothing or appear after while time. For example if someone tells me a joke I will probably instinctively laugh because he/she is laughing while I am at home I will laugh at my head first while after 10 minutes laughing is appear. Happiness is just one side of coin. Same with sadness. I can be happy around everybody, I can be happy even when I am alone but when I lay into bed everything runs out. I was crying because I am terrified how much feelings I had and how much I suppress it Sadness, fear...sadness... burst in me like a flame.. and then suddenly they all dissaper like nothing was happened! My feelings are more like post-active acute state who can appear out of nothing. Very unstable yet very controlled in sense of ignorance.
I cannot be anger at ease but I can be irradiated very easily. My voice tone is natural high but I tend to speak in quiet manner. People also think that I am angry when I shout at them but I just loose control of my voice. Also I naver explain my reasons why I act like that , first I natural want to fix things (that is what is first get in my mind when everything goes down) and then if he/she doesn't want or nor participate in communication in this moment I just move on (but I am keep on mind change of things and most like I know what is gonna happened with or without my interaction) Also if someone tells me something with clarity and do exactly same thing and I will do it no meter if he/she remember or not. I like direct, straightforward conversation but I when I am bored with some theme in my mind I like to produce another theme and then another...and then another one... and then in the middle I like to start another one. But when I talk about some my project I like to steak with that one and push only this one in every next conversation. I can be obsess with one idea to the point that I want to just talk about it, only think about it no metter does other side like it or not I will force everyone to listen me anyway,only do it alone at home and constantly improve it until I reach perfection.

 

[Jaguar]

Isn't the "Te Hammer" the perfect example of describing one's tertiary (childlike) function? I always found that ironic. It's interesting how tertiary functions play out. Like with ENxJs, tertiary Se seems to give sudden flashes of environmental astuteness and an urgency to set things into motion at the present moment.

Perhaps becoming whole means you have to trip over a few chairs in the room.

 

[Tilt]

You ter function can be ignored and well controlled while your inf function cannot. Most like you are very little aware of what does it do now. For example my feelings suddenly appear without any consequences and this is what confuse me most while on the same time I have little understanding of others feelings (mechanism), I cannot manipulate other feelings to get what I want. But yeah I can appear as funny, spunky and smiling person while on the same time inside there is nothing or appear after while time. For example if someone tells me a joke I will probably instinctively laugh because he/she is laughing while I am at home I will laugh at my head first while after 10 minutes laughing is appear. Happiness is just one side of coin. Same with sadness. I can be happy around everybody, I can be happy even when I am alone but when I lay into bed everything runs out. I wasn't crying because I am terrified how much feelings I had and how much I suppress it Sadness, fear...sadness... burst in me like a flame.. and then suddenly they all dissaper like nothing was happened! My feelings are more like post-active acute state who can appear out of nothing. Very unstable yet very controlled.
I cannot be anger at ease but I can be irradiated very easily. My voice tone is natural high but I tend to speak in quiet manner. People also think that I am angry when I shout at them but I just loose control of my voice. Also I naver explain my reasons why I act like that , first I natural want to fix things (that is what is first get in my mind when everything goes down) and then if he/she doesn't want or nor participate in communication in this moment I just move on (but I am keep on mind change of things and most like I know what is gonna happened with or without my interaction) Also if someone tells me something with clarity and do exactly same thing and I will do it no meter if he/she remember or not. I like direct, straightforward conversation but I when I am bored with some theme in my mind I like to produce another theme and then another...and then another one... and then in the middle I like to start another one. But when I talk about some my project I like to steak with that one and push only this one in every next conversation. I can be obsess with one ideas to the point that I want to just talk about it and improve it until I reach perfection.

The Inferior can be controlled to some extent... It just takes a concerted, conscious effort to use it in an effective manner. It just will never be as nuanced or as advanced as those who use it higher in their stack. The amount of effort needed often surpasses the efficacy when under high stress or when its usefulness is relegated to lower priority relative to other tasks/objectives (often dictated by the dominant or auxiliary).

 

[á´…eparted]

Isn't the "Te Hammer" the perfect example of describing one's tertiary (childlike) function? I always found that ironic. It's interesting how tertiary functions play out. Like with ENxJs, tertiary Se seems to give sudden flashes of environmental astuteness and an urgency to set things into motion at the present moment.

Haha yup that definitely explains what I do when I am pissed off.

 

[Yara the Corpse]

Self-control, patience, and intuitively knowing what is a stupid idea (I suck at being taken away by feelings enough to do most things)... I have too much control over what I say and do to the point where sometimes I feel like I'm overthinking things and need to just live in the moment instead of anal-yzing everything. Where as other feelers might be more comfortable with people and relationships I would be cautious and neurotic as well.

This is best explained by my enneagram 5(w6) though.

 

[Tater]

Sure. I've also seen it the other way around: Thinkers who systematize Feeling things like social protocols and interpersonal psychology.

 

[Digital Lion]

God...why did I come in here? Because now that evil son a bitch Uncertainty is all up in my face again...and I hate that bastard. Sheesh.

Coincidentally, the other night I had a dream that I was an INFP. lol And I love INFPs, btw. Perhaps the dream was due to me 1.) recently learning/realizing that I've been very close to (and very attracted to) more INFPs than I ever realized and 2.) I've been consciously and actively working on better engaging/acknowledging my feelings (Fi development) for a few years now. And furthermore, there are many times when I act and look just like a hardcore ENFJ friend of mine--I tend to admire a shit ton of them as well.

Compounding matters, just yesterday I was at the movies with some friends (I'd been unintentionally neglecting them so this was conciliatory in nature), which I normally don't do with this particular group of friends because I hate their theater etiquette with a fiery intensity that starts in my balls and ends in my eye sockets. Horny mountain gorillas with nerve damage possess more grace and civility than these unruly MFers do within confined spaces--they talk to the screen, brazenly interact with each other as if no one else exists or matters, and eat and drink so obnoxiously loud I honestly just want to Death Note the whole fucking lot of em in permanent, thick ass black marker. Seriously.

The whole time I'm literally threatening them with bodily harm, "shooshing" them, giving them intentional NTJ death stares, all that. The thing is, I was very mindful of those surrounding us because I didn't want their experience to be ruined (because I hate for mine to be) and I also felt like polite theater decorum was being violated. Now would that qualify more as a Fe attempt at trying to impose "harmony" on my immediate environment for the sake of others or more of a violation of an Fi based principle rooted in a "do unto others" notion of fairness?

The thing is, I know that my "F" is rather developed for a twenty something (alleged) ENTJ; I do instinctively resonate with Te directness and blunt candor and always have. But as a kid, that wasn't received well and so I was literally slapped down until I learned to make it look more like Fe. For this reason, I honestly came to despise "Fe values" even though I'm quite adept at utilizing them when I want to and many times, this happens reflexively; But I still believe that I adopt it in order to more effectively achieve a desired outcome (usually attached to some goal of mine). But now I'm not so sure. And I want to be sure, god damn it.

EDIT: temporary identity crisis averted--back to being an ENTJ again. lol

 

[Mind Maverick]

You cannot healthily value becoming someone else. You can value the traits often associated with being a T, like logic or concrete thinking, but to value becoming someone you would have to actively be making efforts to change yourself. And do I think this is possible for an F? No. You cannot change who you are.

I know not changing type is the "by-the-book" theory, but is there really any evidence to support this? What convinces you that it's not possible? Why?
Genuine question from a stance of wanting to hear your thoughts.