[Other/Multiple Temperaments] Fs whose values are T things?

[notmyapples]

I know not changing type is the "by-the-book" theory, but is there really any evidence to support this? What convinces you that it's not possible? Why?
Genuine question from a stance of wanting to hear your thoughts.

My opinion comes from my own experience with myself and other F types. Other than that "by-the-book" theory, many F types I've met who actively try to bring out their low-order functions in amounts that don't follow their stacking adopted very unhealthy tendencies due to those functions. I knew one ISFP who tried desperately to develop their Ni only to grow extremely insecure of everything in their life, read too deeply into mythologies like the zodiac and was constantly questioning her own mental state. I've met INFJs who attempted to bring out their Ti to almost a dominant position only to grow defensive of their logical theories and increasingly closed off from external information. It might be by-the-book, but it is supported by real life occurrences. I've never met someone who could actively change their type and the ones that tried ended up unhappy, unhealthy and barely functioning. Purposely trying to amplify a function past it's natural limits can have just as bad results as ignoring it because it is trying to change a core part of yourself. Even outside of MBTI, I don't believe that is something you can ever do.

But take that with a grain of salt, that is purely my experience and an opinion that is derived directly from so. I recommend you draw your own conclusions from your own.

 

[Mind Maverick]

[MENTION=35774]Digital Lion[/MENTION] Even after you're certain of your type, there are more questions. Those questions expand into more questions, and it just keeps going on and on and on until you walk away. That's the point I'm getting to now.
I that I'm an INTP, but no one can prove that MBTI is even real. Now I quite probably have my fake type for my false theory and for minuscule, if any, reason or profit to gain from it. How long did it take me to "find" my type (or solidify into my belief that I am a specific one, if the whole thing is a fallacy)? About 3-5 years and some professional help? It's like trying to dig to China to find gold, except you one day realize there is no China, and even if there was, you couldn't get there by digging and there's no gold in this spot. Meanwhile, if you dig elsewhere, there's gold galore, and you don't even have to go to China for it.

[MENTION=35569]notmyapples[/MENTION] Alright. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Mind Maverick]

My opinion comes from my own experience with myself and other F types. Other than that "by-the-book" theory, many F types I've met who actively try to bring out their low-order functions in amounts that don't follow their stacking adopted very unhealthy tendencies due to those functions. I knew one ISFP who tried desperately to develop their Ni only to grow extremely insecure of everything in their life, read too deeply into mythologies like the zodiac and was constantly questioning her own mental state. I've met INFJs who attempted to bring out their Ti to almost a dominant position only to grow defensive of their logical theories and increasingly closed off from external information. It might be by-the-book, but it is supported by real life occurrences. I've never met someone who could actively change their type and the ones that tried ended up unhappy, unhealthy and barely functioning. Purposely trying to amplify a function past it's natural limits can have just as bad results as ignoring it because it is trying to change a core part of yourself. Even outside of MBTI, I don't believe that is something you can ever do.

But take that with a grain of salt, that is purely my experience and an opinion that is derived directly from so. I recommend you draw your own conclusions from your own.

What makes you certain that it's not simply that these people are not sure how to change, but that change is possible and they have not figured out how?
That was worded pretty poorly, but I'm kind of in a hurry so I'll leave it. Sorry.

 

[notmyapples]

What makes you certain that it's not simply that these people are not sure how to change, but that change is possible and they have not figured out how?
That was worded pretty poorly, but I'm kind of in a hurry so I'll leave it. Sorry.

The fact that the overwhelming number who attempt this don't end up achieving their goals is proof enough for me. If there is a possibility that you can change MBTI types, which I personally don't believe but that's just subjective opinion, than you'd have to accept that everybody must be doing something wrong. I don't believe that. Even on online forums with people I have not met, I have never seen someone actually change their type past a hopeful mistyping. I'll believe it when I see it, but I have not seen it.

 

[Jaguar]

I know not changing type is the "by-the-book" theory

As long as the book wasn't written by Jung.
And let's not forget the people whose very identity hinges upon being classified a certain MBTI type. "Type doesn't change" because they don't want anything to change. They want to remain one-sided.

 

[Agent Washington]

As long as the book wasn't written by Jung.
And let's not forget the people whose very identity hinges upon being classified a certain MBTI type. "Type doesn't change" because they don't want anything to change. They want to remain one-sided.

I love Jung, the rest can ... gtfo

 

[Mind Maverick]

The fact that the overwhelming number who attempt this don't end up achieving their goals is proof enough for me. If there is a possibility that you can change MBTI types, which I personally don't believe but that's just subjective opinion, than you'd have to accept that everybody must be doing something wrong. I don't believe that. Even on online forums with people I have not met, I have never seen someone actually change their type past a hopeful mistyping. I'll believe it when I see it, but I have not seen it.

it's interesting to think about.
I have obsrved some inborn personality traits that don't seem malleable, but I genuinely and beyond a shadow of a doubt believe that universal character traits are malleable. not sure if individualistic personality is malleable.
how close is mbti to identifying a pattern among those personality traits, if there is one?
of that I'm not certain.
I'm fully persuaded of the introversion and extroversion spectrum, and I do currently subscribe to the notion that were all ambiverts to some extent, but the line between introversion n extroversion is to thin to have a true middle. I think everyone just has a subjective balance, and sometimes if that balance is fenced on, people can feel ambiverted. I'm an introvert who can have some social skills, make customers laugh, etc bc my dad is extroverted n convinced me to push myself enough...but in the end, I just don't have the ability to maintain that for long durations...I HAVE to go back into quiet solitude after some time. I am energized by quiet thinking time and it's harder to recognize when I need socialization than it is to recognize my hunger for solitude. this is an open ended belief: I don't think I could ever truly change that. Furthermore, I have tried to become more Se-like for years, long before I knew anything about mbti functions. at the end of the day I just struggle so hard to come out of my head and rely on essential oils (since ADD meds had unwanted side effects) to bring me into the here and now clearly.
I'm with a friend now so I'll have to come back to this.

 

[Tilt]

[MENTION=35774]Digital Lion[/MENTION] Even after you're certain of your type, there are more questions. Those questions expand into more questions, and it just keeps going on and on and on until you walk away. That's the point I'm getting to now.
I know, that I know, that I know, that I'm an INTP, but no one can prove that MBTI is even real. Now I quite probably have my fake type for my false theory and for minuscule, if any, reason or profit to gain from it. How long did it take me to "find" my type (or solidify into my belief that I am a specific one, if the whole thing is a fallacy)? About 3-5 years and some professional help? It's like trying to dig to China to find gold, except you one day realize there is no China, and even if there was, you couldn't get there by digging and there's no gold in this spot. Meanwhile, if you dig elsewhere, there's gold galore, and you don't even have to go to China for it.

[MENTION=35569]notmyapples[/MENTION] Alright. Thanks for sharing.

I had a similar experience. I identify most with ENFJ but I still have my doubts at times because I most often test as XNTJ.

 

[Mind Maverick]

As long as the book wasn't written by Jung.
And let's not forget the people whose very identity hinges upon being classified a certain MBTI type. "Type doesn't change" because they don't want anything to change. They want to remain one-sided.

Actually, I think that was written by Jung. It might have been Katherine Briggs or Isabel, though...it was on the official MBTI site. I recall it saying that Jung believed (what I refer to as a default setting) would resurface like a beach ball under water after time.

It's been a few years, and my memory on it is hazy. I'd have to refresh to verify.

 

[Jaguar]

Actually, I think that was written by Jung.

Carl Jung: "Psychological types are not static." | Carl Jung Depth Psychology

 

[Introspector]

My values are a little in the murky middle. Most of them are F-ish ideas with T-like execution.

-Loyalty and devotion/not being super flighty and commitment

-A hard work ethic and a feeling of responsibility for yourself and others

-Strong and steadfast beliefs but also respecting other beliefs (although not afraid to pick them apart a little)

-No fake/fair weather friend behavior or putting yourself on a pedestal

-A care for other people paired with a logical and grounded perception of things

-Not making a big fuss/acting like the world is against you

Just a few off the top of my head. As an Fi-dom, I do find myself making strong opinions and beliefs a lot.

 

[Mind Maverick]

Carl Jung: "Psychological types are not static." | Carl Jung Depth Psychology

interesting. ok. here's what I was remembering vaguely, I looked it up again

If the use of your dominant and auxiliary functions is not supported by your environment, it will still press to reach the surface, like a beach ball held under water. When a function is never allowed to develop naturally, a person can experience stress and frustration.


As you develop your tertiary and least-preferred functions later in life, the range of behaviors available to you opens up even further. But the dominant and auxiliary functions will always be the core functions of your conscious personality.

http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-...dynamics/lifelong-type-development.htm?bhcp=1

 

[Sacrophagus]

It all boils down to your decision-making process.