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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty Blue View Post
    The jungian cognitive function descriptions vary wildly from the mbti ones. could you post them?

    Be good to contrast these.
    Here are the descriptions from Carl Jung's "Psychological Types" for extraverted sensing and intuition, as is relevant to the thread.




  2. #22
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notmyapples View Post
    Here are the descriptions from Carl Jung's "Psychological Types" for extraverted sensing and intuition, as is relevant to the thread.



    I have read this before but it's good to have in the thread for reference. The only problem I have with this is that it is based on assessments of his own patients and in doing so it is extraordinarily geared towards those with (often acute) psychiatric issues. What i draw from this is just that they will be more exaggerated/an extreme version.

    Not to say I can not identify with the descriptions (and again it's be much more Ne than Se, probably more obviously so) but he deals in absolutes and I don't gel with rigidity so much.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty Blue View Post
    I have read this before but it's good to have in the thread for reference. The only problem I have with this is that it is based on assessments of his own patients and in doing so it is extraordinarily geared towards those with (often acute) psychiatric issues. What i draw from this is just that they will be more exaggerated/an extreme version.

    Not to say I can not identify with the descriptions (and again it's be much more Ne than Se, probably more obviously so) but he deals in absolutes and I don't gel with rigidity so much.
    Carl Jung's descriptions are a good place to start for a core explanation of the functions and to expand your knowledge from there. They give you a base understanding from the original source which is very useful if you wish to learn cognitive theory objectively without fear of misunderstanding or information bias.

  4. #24
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notmyapples View Post
    Carl Jung's descriptions are a good place to start for a core explanation of the functions and to expand your knowledge from there. They give you a base understanding from the original source which is very useful if you wish to learn cognitive theory objectively without fear of misunderstanding or information bias.

    Well yes, and he learned a lot form Freud. Seemingly building on the theory of three personality aspects, ID, ego and super ego. I did look at them both a while back. I think Socionics is more heavily based on Freud and MBTI more so Jung. Though both evolved the basis of personality typing.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  5. #25

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    Se

    Extraverted Sensors:
    – Are adaptable and easy-going
    – Are realistic and down-to-earth
    – Are practical and matter-of-fact
    Are excited by adventure and thrills
    – Live “in the moment” and prefer to focus on the here-and-now
    – Are fond of concrete facts and are aware of details
    – Learn best from hands-on experience
    Seek stimulation by experiencing life in a hands-on, immersive way
    – Have a “live and let live” mentality
    Tend to be impulsive and trust their impulses
    – Are fun-loving and optimistic
    – Pride themselves on being bold, unconventional and spontaneous
    Prize freedom
    – See all the details around them


    Extraverted Intuitives:
    Are always thinking of possibilities and what “could be”
    – Focus on the future much more than the present
    Are original and independent
    Love to start and initiate creative projects, but struggle with completing projects
    Work in bursts of impulsive energy
    Hate routine
    Seek and trust inspiration and are willing to follow it anywhere
    – Tend to be enthusiastic and good with people
    Love to inspire and motivate others
    Find hidden patterns, possibilities and potentials
    – See so many alternatives that they can have trouble focusing on just one thing
    – Are open-minded and slow to form premature conclusions
    – See things in impressions and focus on “the big picture”


    How the Extraverted Sensor Thinks:

    Extraverted sensors are some of the most realistic personality types. They see things as they are and accept facts readily, making the most of whatever situation they find themselves in. Where the Ne-user sees what “could be” and is always striving to see potential, the Se-user sees what “is” and tries to enjoy and use what they can in the moment. They are extremely observant and aware of all the details of their physical world, and often know how to maneuver throughout life in a graceful way because of their awareness.
    In language, Se-users are direct and concrete. They see little point in beating around the bush or rambling. They can quickly and practically evaluate situations and people to make sound estimations regarding their usefulness and abilities.

    Se-users enjoy the world, their surroundings, and the people in their lives without feeling the need to change them. This gives them a very easy-going, live-and-let-live personality which others find enjoyable and freeing to be around. They believe in accepting everyone for who they already are, and they’re unlikely to push anyone to fit a particular mold. This doesn’t mean they never get irritated at other people’s differences, but they’re unlikely to dwell on it for long, instead focusing on how to make the best of who that person already is without alterations.

    Se-users are very hands-on people, and tend to be kinesthetic learners as children. They learn best by doing, and would rather just get right into something and work with it with their hands than read a manual or spend a lot of time in intense study. They have remarkable physical knowledge and the ability to grasp how things work as they feel them physically.

    While Se-users may not be the ones to grab a manual when they’re trying to fix something, they still love to collect facts. They are curious and excited by new and novel things. They often have a tremendous storehouse of facts on random subjects in their mind and they are always curious to know more.

    Se-users thrive on experiencing new sensory pleasures; new food, scenery, people, activities, adventures. Se-users trust their impulses and believe in enjoying life to the fullest. They love physical enjoyment, from good food to quality clothes, music, artwork, and even the beauties of nature. They believe life is to be grasped and enjoyed, not changed or altered. They often make fun-loving companions, gifted storytellers, and open-minded confidantes.
    New things that cannot be grasped or enjoyed by the senses are less interesting to Se-users; abstract ideas, theories, or existential conversations. Because Se-users are above all focused on what is real, focusing on theories and unproven, unseen possibilities can bore them.
    Se-Users prefer to live without a detailed plan, and hate to be micro-managed. They thrive on freedom and taking care of problems as they arise. Because they are less focus on what things “could” be or how things “should” be, they are able to fully enjoy all the blessings of the moment. When it comes to a crisis, Se-users are the best types to have on hand. They are quick to find solutions and take in the details around them, finding rapid ways to alter their surroundings to solve a problem or get out of a precarious situation. They fully believe that they will find solutions as problems arise, and don’t waste time worrying about negative possibilities. Worry is deemed wasteful and useless to the Se-user. They thrive on being fearless, brave, and optimistic.


    How the Extraverted Intuitive Thinks:

    Ne-users are driven by their inspirations and by intuitive visions of what could be. They have extremely active minds that are always giving them flashes of potential outcomes. Ne users are driven by intense bursts of energy and inspiration that push them forward like a flood, urging them to realize their visions. They find the world of possibilities and new innovations and adventures nearly irresistible in its pull. The only problem with this, is that once their vision is seen or believed in by other individuals they can often lose their interest in it and be driven by another new idea or possibility. While Judging types might consider the Ne-lifestyle fickle and ever-changing, it’s not to be looked down upon. Ne-users make sure that human inspirations are not wasted, that dreams see the light of day, and that possibilities are believed in Walt Disney, an Ne-dominant personality type, conceived many more ideas than he ever built to completion, yet he was able to change the world and with his vision, and the help of other great minds, he was able to see many of his inspirations become a reality.

    Ne-dominants lives tend to be a series of projects; they live from one possibility to the next. Being their friend is sure to inspire you and open your mind to innovative new ideas. The Ne-users imagination is boundless and intensely creative. Oscar Wilde, Alduous Huxley, Hunter S. Thompson, J.R.R. Tolkien were all Ne-users who saw their imaginative visions come to life in their stories. Unlike Se-users, who see what “is” and have a very realistic, down-to-earth view of the world, Ne-users are driven by what “could be” and are rarely satisfied at leaving things as they are. Everything must be improved upon, everything must reach imaginative new heights.

    Ne-users are open-minded with their friends and loved ones. They enter relationships and friendships with a desire to be inspired and learn something new. They are slow to form conclusions or to judge anyone, and they’re always up for hearing a new perspective on something. They love discussing theories, plans, possibilities, and abstract ideas. They can enjoy a good debate and love long discussions about the endless opportunities and visions their intuition gives them.

    Ne-users are sometimes idealistic about their partners in relationships. Because they are so focused on the potential of everything, they can try to motivate their partners to try new things or reach new goals. This can be a very positive thing, but it can also be a negative thing if their partner feels like they are always being pushed to grow and are never okay just as they are.

    Ne-dominant personalities are known for being labeled ‘gifted’ in school. They tend to score above average on aptitude tests, but they perform middle-of-the-road in terms of grades.
    ENFPs sometimes struggle in school, because they need something that sparks their imagination to keep their mind focused on their studies. Rote bookwork and repetition is incredibly boring and frustrating for them to live with. Their minds wander to more imaginative pathways if they aren’t being stimulated by what their teachers are showing them. For this reason they sometimes are mislabeled as ADHD because they can have trouble paying attention in class if their teachers are more focused on repetition, memorization, and cold hard facts.

    As someone deciding between INFP and ISFP (definitely a Fi dominant), this does seem to suggest INFP.

  6. #26
    Taking Brief blessblessblessblessbless Break RadicalDoubt's Avatar
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    Se

    Extraverted Sensors:
    – Are adaptable and easy-going
    – Are realistic and down-to-earth
    – Are practical and matter-of-fact
    – Are excited by adventure and thrills
    – Live “in the moment” and prefer to focus on the here-and-now
    – Are fond of concrete facts and are aware of details
    – Learn best from hands-on experience
    – Seek stimulation by experiencing life in a hands-on, immersive way
    – Have a “live and let live” mentality
    – Tend to be impulsive and trust their impulses
    – Are fun-loving and optimistic
    – Pride themselves on being bold, unconventional, and spontaneous
    – Prize freedom
    – See all the details around them


    Extraverted Intuitives:
    Are always thinking of possibilities and what “could be”
    Focus on the future much more than the present
    – Are original and independent
    – Love to start and initiate creative projects, but struggle with completing projects
    – Work in bursts of impulsive energy
    – Hate routine
    Seek and trust inspiration and are willing to follow it anywhere.
    – Tend to be enthusiastic and good with people
    Love to inspire and motivate others
    – Find hidden patterns, possibilities, and potentials
    See so many alternatives that they can have trouble focusing on just one thing
    Are open-minded and slow to form premature conclusions
    – See things in impressions and focus on “the big picture”


    How the Extraverted Sensor Thinks:

    Extraverted sensors are some of the most realistic personality types. They see things as they are and accept facts readily, making the most of whatever situation they find themselves in. Where the Ne-user sees what “could be” and is always striving to see potential, the Se-user sees what “is” and tries to enjoy and use what they can in the moment. They are extremely observant and aware of all the details of their physical world, and often know how to maneuver throughout life in a graceful way because of their awareness.
    In language, Se-users are direct and concrete. They see little point in beating around the bush or rambling. They can quickly and practically evaluate situations and people to make sound estimations regarding their usefulness and abilities.

    Se-users enjoy the world, their surroundings, and the people in their lives without feeling the need to change them. This gives them a very easy-going, live-and-let-live personality which others find enjoyable and freeing to be around. They believe in accepting everyone for who they already are, and they’re unlikely to push anyone to fit a particular mold. This doesn’t mean they never get irritated at other people’s differences, but they’re unlikely to dwell on it for long, instead focusing on how to make the best of who that person already is without alterations.

    Se-users are very hands-on people, and tend to be kinesthetic learners as children. They learn best by doing, and would rather just get right into something and work with it with their hands than read a manual or spend a lot of time in intense study. They have remarkable physical knowledge and the ability to grasp how things work as they feel them physically.

    While Se-users may not be the ones to grab a manual when they’re trying to fix something, they still love to collect facts. They are curious and excited by new and novel things. They often have a tremendous storehouse of facts on random subjects in their mind and they are always curious to know more.

    Se-users thrive on experiencing new sensory pleasures; new food, scenery, people, activities, adventures ,. Se-users trust their impulses and believe in enjoying life to the fullest. They love physical enjoyment, from good food to quality clothes, music, artwork, and even the beauties of nature. They believe life is to be grasped and enjoyed, not changed or altered. They often make fun-loving companions, gifted storytellers, and open-minded confidantes.
    New things that cannot be grasped or enjoyed by the senses are less interesting to Se-users; abstract ideas, theories, or existential conversations. Because Se-users are above all focused on what is real, focusing on theories and unproven, unseen possibilities can bore them.
    Se-Users prefer to live without a detailed plan, and hate to be micro-managed. They thrive on freedom and taking care of problems as they arise. Because they are less focus on what things “could” be or how things “should” be, they are able to fully enjoy all the blessings of the moment. When it comes to a crisis, Se-users are the best types to have on hand. They are quick to find solutions and take in the details around them, finding rapid ways to alter their surroundings to solve a problem or get out of a precarious situation. They fully believe that they will find solutions as problems arise, and don’t waste time worrying about negative possibilities. Worry is deemed wasteful and useless to the Se-user. They thrive on being fearless, brave, and optimistic.


    How the Extraverted Intuitive Thinks:

    Ne-users are driven by their inspirations and by intuitive visions of what could be. They have extremely active minds that are always giving them flashes of potential outcomes. Ne users are driven by intense bursts of energy and inspiration that push them forward like a flood, urging them to realize their visions. They find the world of possibilities and new innovations and adventures nearly irresistible in its pull. The only problem with this, is that once their vision is seen or believed in by other individuals they can often lose their interest in it and be driven by another new idea or possibility. While Judging types might consider the Ne-lifestyle fickle and ever-changing, it’s not to be looked down upon. Ne-users make sure that human inspirations are not wasted, that dreams see the light of day, and that possibilities are believed in. Walt Disney, an Ne-dominant personality type, conceived many more ideas than he ever built to completion, yet he was able to change the world and with his vision, and the help of other great minds, he was able to see many of his inspirations become a reality.

    Ne-dominants lives tend to be a series of projects; they live from one possibility to the next. Being their friend is sure to inspire you and open your mind to innovative new ideas. The Ne-users imagination is boundless and intensely creative. Oscar Wilde, Alduous Huxley, Hunter S. Thompson, J.R.R. Tolkien were all Ne-users who saw their imaginative visions come to life in their stories. Unlike Se-users, who see what “is” and have a very realistic, down-to-earth view of the world, Ne-users are driven by what “could be” and are rarely satisfied at leaving things as they are. Everything must be improved upon, everything must reach imaginative new heights.

    Ne-users are open-minded with their friends and loved ones. They enter relationships and friendships with a desire to be inspired and learn something new. They are slow to form conclusions or to judge anyone, and they’re always up for hearing a new perspective on something.
    They love discussing theories, plans, possibilities, and abstract ideas. They can enjoy a good debate and love long discussions about the endless opportunities and visions their intuition gives them.
    Ne-users are sometimes idealistic about their partners in relationships. Because they are so focused on the potential of everything, they can try to motivate their partners to try new things or reach new goals. This can be a very positive thing, but it can also be a negative thing if their partner feels like they are always being pushed to grow and are never okay just as they are.

    Ne-dominant personalities are known for being labeled ‘gifted’ in school.] They tend to score above average on aptitude tests , but they perform middle-of-the-road in terms of grades.
    ENFPs sometimes struggle in school, because they need something that sparks their imagination to keep their mind focused on their studies. Rote bookwork and repetition is incredibly boring and frustrating for them to live with. Their minds wander to more imaginative pathways if they aren’t being stimulated by what their teachers are showing them. For this reason they sometimes are mislabeled as ADHD because they can have trouble paying attention in class if their teachers are more focused on repetition, memorization, and cold hard facts.
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  7. #27
    6960 Magic silverknightgothic's Avatar
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    Extraverted Sensors:
    – Are adaptable and easy-going
    – Are realistic and down-to-earth
    – Are practical and matter-of-fact
    – Are excited by adventure and thrills
    – Live “in the moment” and prefer to focus on the here-and-now
    – Are fond of concrete facts and are aware of details
    – Learn best from hands-on experience
    – Seek stimulation by experiencing life in a hands-on, immersive way
    – Have a “live and let live” mentality
    – Tend to be impulsive and trust their impulses
    – Are fun-loving and optimistic
    – Pride themselves on being bold, unconventional, and spontaneous
    – Prize freedom
    – See all the details around them

    Extraverted Intuitives:
    – Are always thinking of possibilities and what “could be”
    – Focus on the future much more than the present
    – Are original and independent
    – Love to start and initiate creative projects, but struggle with completing projects
    – Work in bursts of impulsive energy
    – Hate routine
    – Seek and trust inspiration and are willing to follow it anywhere.
    – Tend to be enthusiastic and good with people
    – Love to inspire and motivate others
    – Find hidden patterns, possibilities, and potentials
    – See so many alternatives that they can have trouble focusing on just one thing
    – Are open-minded and slow to form premature conclusions
    – See things in impressions and focus on “the big picture”


    How the Extraverted Sensor Thinks:

    Extraverted sensors are some of the most realistic personality types. They see things as they are and accept facts readily, making the most of whatever situation they find themselves in. Where the Ne-user sees what “could be” and is always striving to see potential, the Se-user sees what “is” and tries to enjoy and use what they can in the moment. They are extremely observant and aware of all the details of their physical world, and often know how to maneuver throughout life in a graceful way because of their awareness.
    In language, Se-users are direct and concrete. They see little point in beating around the bush or rambling. They can quickly and practically evaluate situations and people to make sound estimations regarding their usefulness and abilities.

    Se-users enjoy the world, their surroundings, and the people in their lives without feeling the need to change them. This gives them a very easy-going, live-and-let-live personality which others find enjoyable and freeing to be around. They believe in accepting everyone for who they already are, and they’re unlikely to push anyone to fit a particular mold. This doesn’t mean they never get irritated at other people’s differences, but they’re unlikely to dwell on it for long, instead focusing on how to make the best of who that person already is without alterations.

    Se-users are very hands-on people, and tend to be kinesthetic learners as children. They learn best by doing, and would rather just get right into something and work with it with their hands than read a manual or spend a lot of time in intense study. They have remarkable physical knowledge and the ability to grasp how things work as they feel them physically.

    While Se-users may not be the ones to grab a manual when they’re trying to fix something, they still love to collect facts. They are curious and excited by new and novel things. They often have a tremendous storehouse of facts on random subjects in their mind and they are always curious to know more.

    Se-users thrive on experiencing new sensory pleasures; new food, scenery, people, activities, adventures. Se-users trust their impulses and believe in enjoying life to the fullest. They love physical enjoyment, from good food to quality clothes, music, artwork, and even the beauties of nature. They believe life is to be grasped and enjoyed, not changed or altered. They often make fun-loving companions, gifted storytellers, and open-minded confidantes.
    New things that cannot be grasped or enjoyed by the senses are less interesting to Se-users; abstract ideas, theories, or existential conversations. Because Se-users are above all focused on what is real, focusing on theories and unproven, unseen possibilities can bore them.
    Se-Users prefer to live without a detailed plan, and hate to be micro-managed. They thrive on freedom and taking care of problems as they arise. Because they are less focus on what things “could” be or how things “should” be, they are able to fully enjoy all the blessings of the moment. When it comes to a crisis, Se-users are the best types to have on hand. They are quick to find solutions and take in the details around them, finding rapid ways to alter their surroundings to solve a problem or get out of a precarious situation. They fully believe that they will find solutions as problems arise, and don’t waste time worrying about negative possibilities. Worry is deemed wasteful and useless to the Se-user. They thrive on being fearless, brave, and optimistic.

    How the Extraverted Intuitive Thinks:

    Ne-users are driven by their inspirations and by intuitive visions of what could be. They have extremely active minds that are always giving them flashes of potential outcomes. Ne users are driven by intense bursts of energy and inspiration that push them forward like a flood, urging them to realize their visions. They find the world of possibilities and new innovations and adventures nearly irresistible in its pull. The only problem with this, is that once their vision is seen or believed in by other individuals they can often lose their interest in it and be driven by another new idea or possibility. While Judging types might consider the Ne-lifestyle fickle and ever-changing, it’s not to be looked down upon. Ne-users make sure that human inspirations are not wasted, that dreams see the light of day, and that possibilities are believed in. Walt Disney, an Ne-dominant personality type, conceived many more ideas than he ever built to completion, yet he was able to change the world and with his vision, and the help of other great minds, he was able to see many of his inspirations become a reality.

    Ne-dominants lives tend to be a series of projects; they live from one possibility to the next. Being their friend is sure to inspire you and open your mind to innovative new ideas. The Ne-users imagination is boundless and intensely creative. Oscar Wilde, Alduous Huxley, Hunter S. Thompson, J.R.R. Tolkien were all Ne-users who saw their imaginative visions come to life in their stories. Unlike Se-users, who see what “is” and have a very realistic, down-to-earth view of the world, Ne-users are driven by what “could be” and are rarely satisfied at leaving things as they are. Everything must be improved upon, everything must reach imaginative new heights.

    Ne-users are open-minded with their friends and loved ones. They enter relationships and friendships with a desire to be inspired and learn something new. They are slow to form conclusions or to judge anyone, and they’re always up for hearing a new perspective on something. They love discussing theories, plans, possibilities, and abstract ideas. They can enjoy a good debate and love long discussions about the endless opportunities and visions their intuition gives them.
    Ne-users are sometimes idealistic about their partners in relationships. Because they are so focused on the potential of everything, they can try to motivate their partners to try new things or reach new goals. This can be a very positive thing, but it can also be a negative thing if their partner feels like they are always being pushed to grow and are never okay just as they are.

    Ne-dominant personalities are known for being labeled ‘gifted’ in school. They tend to score above average on aptitude tests, but they perform middle-of-the-road in terms of grades.
    ENFPs sometimes struggle in school, because they need something that sparks their imagination to keep their mind focused on their studies. Rote bookwork and repetition is incredibly boring and frustrating for them to live with. Their minds wander to more imaginative pathways if they aren’t being stimulated by what their teachers are showing them. For this reason they sometimes are mislabeled as ADHD because they can have trouble paying attention in class if their teachers are more focused on repetition, memorization, and cold hard facts.


    Se is probably the function with which I am most comfortable, so I'm not surprised I related to it more based on these descriptions.
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  8. #28
    Junior Member everdream's Avatar
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    NP and SP types are very different to me. The way they speak, vocabulary used, body languages, movements, all are vastly different.

    For example, both SPs and NPs can be hyperactive but the way they move around is different. NPs move around as if scanning for ideas while SPs just move because they can't sit still. NPs movements are chaotic but smooth, while SPs movements are abrupt and crisp.

    NPs are much more compelling communicators, and have vibrant vocabulary.
    SPs exude confidence in actions and hard-boiled experience.

  9. #29
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by everdream View Post
    NP and SP types are very different to me. The way they speak, vocabulary used, body languages, movements, all are vastly different.

    For example, both SPs and NPs can be hyperactive but the way they move around is different. NPs move around as if scanning for ideas while SPs just move because they can't sit still. NPs movements are chaotic but smooth, while SPs movements are abrupt and crisp.

    NPs are much more compelling communicators, and have vibrant vocabulary.
    SPs exude confidence in actions and hard-boiled experience.

    Interesting observations. I still have aspects of both of those though. Bolded the parts I self identify with. I really don't think my movements are smooth at all, i least identify with that.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  10. #30
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    Extraverted Sensors:
    – Are adaptable and easy-going
    – Are realistic and down-to-earth
    – Are practical and matter-of-fact

    – Are excited by adventure and thrills
    – Live “in the moment” and prefer to focus on the here-and-now
    – Are fond of concrete facts and are aware of details
    – Learn best from hands-on experience
    – Seek stimulation by experiencing life in a hands-on, immersive way
    – Have a “live and let live” mentality
    – Tend to be impulsive and trust their impulses
    – Are fun-loving and optimistic
    – Pride themselves on being bold, unconventional, and spontaneous
    – Prize freedom
    – See all the details around them



    Extraverted Intuitives:
    – Are always thinking of possibilities and what “could be”
    – Focus on the future much more than the present

    – Are original and independent
    – Love to start and initiate creative projects, but struggle with completing projects
    – Work in bursts of impulsive energy
    – Hate routine
    – Seek and trust inspiration and are willing to follow it anywhere.
    – Tend to be enthusiastic and good with people
    – Love to inspire and motivate others
    – Find hidden patterns, possibilities, and potentials
    – See so many alternatives that they can have trouble focusing on just one thing
    – Are open-minded and slow to form premature conclusions
    – See things in impressions and focus on “the big picture”
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    Do we want to remind you of something? Yes: the world is good and we belong here.
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