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  1. #1
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Default A good way to tell the dominant from the auxiliary

    Articulating a way to distinguish dominant from auxiliary perspectives; this stemmed from thinking of how to really make sure I was not Ne dominant (as it may seem sometime).
    We often think of the two preferred functions as on an equal footing, but they are really not. The dominant is the one the ego really invests in. The auxiliary is just there, supplied by a “supporting” complex or ego state, because of the need for balance (to balance the dominant’s judging or perception with the opposite mode of rationality, and the dominant’s introverted or extraverted attitude with the opposite).
    I realized that what I’ve always most “relished” is judgments, of true (T), by my own internal (i) assessment. Ne is just what I will tend to apply those truths to, as “ideas”. Each of the dominant functions will be marked by a very ego-invested (emotionally energized) proclamation of what "is" (S; can also be simplified as "behold", "hark", etc) "imagine" (N), "true!"; "correct!" (T), and "good!"; "nice!" (F). The attitude will be determined by whether you look either out to the environment, or within to your individual reflection, to make the proclamation.
    Of course, all people do all of these things, but there will be one of these proclamations that your ego "lives for", for its own sake.


    So to start with my type, and compare with all the others:

    INTP:
    Ti ego: lives for the proclamation of “true! true! correct! correct!” as determined by the individual. I’ve recognized that I’m what’s called an “Intellectual narcissist”; I look back over my writings, [type, politics, other interests, etc.], noting the key points, and subconsciously relishing “true!” via the emotions (which are based on an impersonal declaration of “truth”, not on the emotional state in its own right). Things that are “false” bring very negative emotions, especially when affecting the ego, but at other times, can be totally trivial, like simple lack of symmetry of something. A nice symmetry brings a warm feeling of an un-spoken “true”. Broken symmetry will feel dissonant. When it’s a symmetry involving interaction with other people (such as “respect me as you want me to respect you”), then it’s particularly bad (because that now gets into negative Feeling).
    Ne support: draws them to the philosophical side of things; shares truths as “ideas”, telling others to “imagine” them as possibilities, to see the truth in them, or how they work

    ENP:
    Ne ego: lives to “imagine! imagine!” Already geared to the environment (patterns extracted from real life), so it’s not as much about sharing with others. It’s for them to relish the world of ideas. (Will not be as grounded upon “truth” or “goodness” as the Ji dominant. This was brought to mind by someone on a transit forum, who always puts out wild ideas of how to rearrange subway lines, even though many have shown him they will never be seen as efficient by the Transit agency. I myself had begin coming up with all sorts of ideas years ago, but quickly learned [and then internalized] the agency's principles of how to run things (and this even before working for the agency myself). Some may think someone ignoring "logic" like this might not be a Ti type; he might be an ENFP with an active tertiary Te. But the fact that his focus is so strongly on technical judgments of how to arrange things suggests a strong "mechanical" focus, and they are totally his judgments; ignoring the judgments of the external authority. An ENFP would not remain so focused on such impersonal elements. So it's not lack of Ti; it's Ne being perhaps a bit overdriven, and thus not grounded enough with the T judgment of whether the principles behind the ideas are "correct", and which when dominant and more mature, would also know when to back itself up with the opposite attitude perspective. An ENFP with an overdriven dominant will still have more of a "personal" focus, but not realize the ideas are not really doing anything for the people).
    Ti support (ENTP): draws them to the mechanics of things, and shares imaginations by showing others how the ideas work.
    Fi support (ENFP): draws them to the human side of things, sharing imaginations by showing others how the ideas affect people, like spreading happiness through “silliness”, or using theories like this to improve self and personal relationships

    INFP:
    Fi ego: lives for the proclamation of “good! good! nice! nice!”. I imagine they might look back over their things, noting the key points, and subconsciously relishing “good!” via the emotions, which are what are focused on.
    Ne support: shares niceties as “ideas”, telling others to “imagine” them as possibilities, to see the goodness in them

    ISTP, ISFP
    Se support: draws them to the practical side of things; shares truths or niceties as practical experience such as the arts, mechanics, etc. showing others how tangible things work, or how to experience the joys of life

    ESP:
    Se ego: lives to take in “what is”. Already geared to the environment, where emergent data is taken in ‘as is’, so it’s not as much about sharing with others. It’s for them to relish the moment of tangible reality. (Will not be as grounded upon “truth” or “goodness” as the Ji dominant. If too overdriven above a Ti sense of how things work, a person may do all sorts of stunts figuring from Se alone that he's mastered it, and yet make critical mistakes and get hurt. If too overdriven above an Fi sense of what affects people, may engage in offensive verbal or physical play).
    Ti support (ESTP): draws them to the mechanics of things, and shares experiences by showing others their sense of how the dynamics of them work.
    Fi support (ESFP): draws them to the human side of things, sharing experiences by showing others their sense of how they affect people, like spreading happiness through “fun”, or using internet venues like this to interact with others

    ISJ:
    Si ego: lives to draw on the experience of what “is”, as maintained and filtered by the individual. Relishes what’s “known”, used to navigate what currently “is“.
    Te support: (ISTJ): draws them to the mechanics of things, and shares practical knowledge by showing others how they work to produce efficiency.
    Fe support (ISFJ): draws them to the human side of things, sharing practical knowledge by showing others how to meet needs, like spreading happiness through service

    INJ:
    Ni ego: like Ne, lives to “imagine! imagine!”, but now the patterns are extracted from the individual’s own reflection or sudden insight, which do not come directly, immediately from the environment. This is for them to relish an internal world of ideas. (Will not be as grounded upon “truth” or “goodness” as the Je dominant)
    Te support: (INTJ): draws them to the mechanics of things, and shares their visions by showing others how they work to produce efficiency.
    Fe support (INFJ): draws them to the human side of things, sharing their visions by showing others how to meet needs, like spreading harmony through giving insights

    ETJ:
    Te ego: lives for the “truth” of efficient order. Will point to “objectivity”, but the ego still is gratified, relishing the “correctness” of how things work in creating order and frets at “incorrect“.
    Si support (ESTJ): draws them to the tangible side of things, drawing upon their individual knowledge of “what is” in how to create efficiency.
    Ni support (ENTJ): draws them to the philosophical side of things, drawing upon their individual visions of how to create efficiency

    EFJ:
    Fe ego: lives for the “goodness” of environmental personal harmony. Relishes “good!” “nice“, “liked” in the environment, and frets at “bad” or “disliked” as well.
    Si support (ESFJ): draws them to the tangible side of things, drawing upon their individual knowledge of “what is” in how to create interpersonal harmony.
    Ni support (ENFJ): draws them to the philosophical side of things, drawing upon their individual visions of how to create interpersonal harmony.



    While I have recognized how I totally don’t click with SFP’s (the cognitively furthest from my perspective), I’ve had to consider why I don’t seem to click any better with STP’s; including fellow-Ti dom. ISTP.
    From what I’m seeing, for Ti doms., the S/N clash is by itself enough to make them totally miss each other.

    Fe and Fi dominants will share a common focus on things human, regardless of S/N. Te dominants will focus on efficient logical order, regardless of S/N. In both cases, that will only shape the way they go about it.
    S dominants will focus on engaging the tangible world, and N dominants on their imagination, regardless of T/F.

    But Ti dominants seem to be interested in totally different things, and have little use for each other, because of the individual, impersonal nature of Ti. (It seems TiNe is more likely to engage the tangible things of TiSe than TiSe is to pay attention to the abstract world of Ne, which they find as irrelevant as much as any other S. Even tertiary Ni will not really get them interested but so much. Meanwhile even fellow TiNe types might “miss” each other, if their Ti conclusions are different, and the ego is invested in them enough for even Ne to consider the other idea. Still, from what I've seen, there will at least usually be a common respect and acknowledgement of it as valid as an idea).
    So the common Ti ego focus will only mean they both primarily process the mechanical side of things individually; but the type of data they are taking in for processing is completely different. Even when TiNe takes in current tangible data, they are usually just extracting Ne patterns out of it.


    Something that should also be addressed in understanding the attitudes, is what we mean to begin with, when we say "internal" and "external". It can be hard to determine what's really "internal", because really, all of our processes are technically "internal":

    External world (environment) source of all data
    Internal world (individual) where we receive and process all data

    [collective unconscious— Starts out also external, but internalized; both personal and collective]

    The process of data going from the environment to the individual is perception (“input”)
    The process of data being internally assessed as right or wrong is judgment (“processing”)
    The process of data going from the individual to the environment is behavior (“output”)

    So, the attitude is determined by:

    The extraverted subject [or complex/ego-state] simply goes to the environment to get to the [objective] source of the incoming data.
    The introverted subject filters it within

    (Input is differentiated as a perception function and processing differentiated as a judgment function when connected to a typological complex. Extraverting is more than passive perception; it’s the ego state actively engaging the environment; seeking the input. With Se, tangible data is constantly coming in, but the ego state is already going out seeking it, and thus “paying more attention” [as we’ve often put it] to it.)


    So can anyone else (who's sure of their type) identify with these dominant perspectives? Does it help anyone who may not be sure of their type, or which two functions they think they prefer, but not sure which is dominant, to give them a better idea ?
    Last edited by Eric B; 12-17-2017 at 10:17 AM.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    ENTJ turns right on red and heads on down the highway.
    ESTJ waits at the light and makes sure no one runs the damn thing.

    ENTJ waves to ESTJ in its rear-view mirror: See ya, bye.

  3. #3
    Senior Member asynartetic's Avatar
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    ESTP doesn’t slow down and runs the red light with a fleet of police cruisers in pursuit
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asynartetic View Post
    ESTP doesn’t slow down and runs the red light with a fleet of police cruisers in pursuit
    What, no middle finger out the window? Disappointing.
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  5. #5

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    INFP gets run over by ESTP while contemplating how conditioned human beings can become to obey a colored light.
    There is no mysterious essence we can call a 'place'. Place is change. It is motion killed by the mind, and preserved in the amber of memory.
    J. A. Baker
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  6. #6
    Member BAD1973's Avatar
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    ENTP pulls over to defend the INFP even though, in a similar situation they may have acted in the exact same way as ESTP...just after making sure no INFPs would be harmed in the process.
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  7. #7
    cute lil war dog Bush's Avatar
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    Your discussion about how someone who comes up with subway patterns that might be illogical or impractical might seem ENFP; but it's more likely an ENTP if you look at the domain and what he's doing, what he's playing with, but that he's not necessarily grounded in Ti -- reminds me of Socionics's treatment of the aux as the "creative" function: the domain in which the person mentally plays around. It's also, of course, in line with the notion that the dom is the captain and everyone else acts in service of it.
    To answer the question, then, I do think it can help. What's in service of what? Where's an individual most grounded?


    ISFJ.. vacuums up the highway after things settle down after all of the flipping off and crashing and the vehicular manslaughter.

  8. #8
    Can't be satisfied. Peter Deadpan's Avatar
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    ENFP - Probably parked just a bit off the side of the road behind some trees having wild spontaneous sex.
    Perpetual mood


    “Sometimes I think I have felt everything I'm ever gonna feel.
    And from here on out, I'm not gonna feel anything new.
    Just lesser versions of what I've already felt.”


    - look it up yourself


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  9. #9
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bush Did 9/11 View Post
    Your discussion about how someone who comes up with subway patterns that might be illogical or impractical might seem ENFP; but it's more likely an ENTP if you look at the domain and what he's doing, what he's playing with, but that he's not necessarily grounded in Ti -- reminds me of Socionics's treatment of the aux as the "creative" function: the domain in which the person mentally plays around. It's also, of course, in line with the notion that the dom is the captain and everyone else acts in service of it.
    To answer the question, then, I do think it can help. What's in service of what? Where's an individual most grounded?
    Yes, I see that the "Creative" is defined as "Used to Interact with others; feel: needed when used to help solve others’ problems", which would mach the Parent (though the part about "mentally playing around" sounds more like the tertiary or "child" archetype, which in Socionics would be the "Mobilizing" function).
    It's all in service to the ego, and its dominant functional world-view.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
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