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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Thank you for all your responses here, Dario.

    If nothing else, you may have opened many here to the understanding of the enormous and rich world studying typology and introduced some interesting resources.

    Having watched your Google talk a few years ago, it is disheartening to think that you are no longer teaching. So many academics are very boring and counterproductive to learning, while I suspect you greatly inspired and enlightened your students.

    Thank you for all your efforts and I look forward to your continued production of great resources.
    You're welcome. It was an interesting time. The week has given me an opportunity to look back and observe how my attitude about type has changed over the years, from enthusiast to apprentice to author to researcher to meta-commentator.

    I do teach occasionally. Particularly if you want to take an intro to computing course, or a big data and algorithms course at UCLA during summer session....

    While I enjoyed winning UCLA's Teacher of the Year in the 2011, I knew that the video and talk I gave on my "secrets" of teaching would likely fall on deaf ears. It's probably a calling, one that I would love to return to at some point.

    While I find Type valuable, I believe the community will benefit by embracing the topics of development and consciousness. It's just a tiny step from the Type pond to the ocean of Jungian studies! LOL. Writing "Jung on Yoga" has helped me getting some of the way there:
    Jung on Yoga: Insights and Activities to Awaken with the Chakras: Dario Nardi: 9780988523524: Amazon.com: Books
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  2. #132
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    Want to join a community where people use Type in a professional capacity?

    In the USA: Association of Psychological Type International. Or here on Facebook. Next conference is summer 2019. There are many local chapters.

    In Australia and New Zealand: Australian Association of Psychological Type (AusAPT). Or here on Facebook. Next conference is early October 2018.

    In the UK and Europe: British Association of Psychological Type (BAPT). Or here on Facebook. Next conference is mid April 2018.

    I am scheduled to be at all of these, and at least for the AusAPT and BAPT conferences, I will be offering brain imaging as well as pre and post conference events.
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  3. #133
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    Unless there are a few pressing questions, I'll close with one of my favorite training activities for perspective shifting. It take a couple hours but is well worth it. One of my favorite hobbies is creative writing, and I've seen people *of all types* do an amazing job writing from someone else's perspective.

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  4. #134
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    @AncientSpirits:

    If you're still answering questions, I think my questions from yesterday got lost in the debate.

    Here's the link to my post:

    Interview With Dario Nardi!

    ETA: Was repped by @highlander that the link doesn't work. Post #87 from yesterday. Copied it into spoiler:

    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    @AncientSpirits

    Your 4 creativity shows and you've kept 4 as a wing. Has your relationship to 4 feeling emotionally unpleasant evolved over time? What are your thoughts about the concept that humans are, at base, emotional beings (even T-types ) who rationalize, as opposed to rational beings?
    I'm definitely a different person emotionally now than at age 21. If I'm going to be vulnerable in a situation, then I understand I may feel hurt. But that's okay. I can just let it come up and feel it and live with it for a while, and it will likely dissipate as I learn something from it.

    When people feel negative emotions, particularly ones linked to temperament needs going unmet (esteem) or to deeper personal issues, they have a number of choices:
    -- shove it down and ignore it, where it will eat at the person
    -- analyze it, usually in a detached way to locate lessons
    -- let it all out, or perhaps use humor, typically asking for help
    -- temporarily relieve its weight with drugs, exercise, or such
    -- weaponize it as an ideological tool to rage and attack others
    -- others?

    Neuroscience research suggests that people are mostly irrational. Using the left prefrontal region, we can make up "just so" or "good enough" reasons to almost anything on the spot. This is sort of scary. At times, I feel we are all insane monkeys in various clown outfits with our fingers on dangerous weapons. At other times, I feel more charitable. I think when dealing with concrete life-or-death challenges, most people can get out of their fantasies and do what's needed to survive. And I do think objectivity-subjectivity sits along a spectrum. Feeling folks (in the social sciences or humanities) who think objectivity is "impossible" should maybe look closer to home. I have seen people with a Thinking preference actually engage the brain's major reasoning regions during debate and/or get into a mode of shutting out their limbic reactions in favor of abstract problem solving. So Type does make some difference, though the natural human inclinations toward fantasy (when life is easy) and survivalism (when life is hard) likely predominate.

    Would you give examples of what "missing referential index" and "casual violations" are, please?
    In linguistics, there's this idea of "surface structure" vs "deep structure". The surface structure is the actual utterance. But grammatically, that utterance is likely leaving empty a variety of slots or making certain assumptions. When we dig down, get at the deep structure, we can learn something about the speaker or at least we can ask the speaker some questions to clarify what is meant and perhaps shift their thinking.

    For example:
    Utterance: That's bad.
    Need clarifications: Who's the origin of this judgement? What's "that?" Bad really means, "worse than X", so what's X? Have is always been this way? And so forth.

    I should have said Lost Performative for Ti; while Missing Referential Index is more Fi.

    Lost Performative: The judge of the sentence is left out.
    Utterance: That's illogical.
    Corrective: Who decided that? (presumably the speaker thinks this, but prefers to not take responsibility for their opinion).

    Missing Referential Index: Who we're talking about is unclear.
    Utterance: Nobody likes me.
    Corrective: Nobody at all, really? Who in particular comes to mind? (usually, broad words like always, never, everyone, no one, etc, are a mask for someone in particular).

    Causal Violation: One person can cause another person's emotional or mental state.
    Utterance: My wife makes me so mad.
    Corrective: How specifically? Does she use a specific word or action?

    Mind-Reading: Presuming you know someone else's mental state.
    Utterance: He loves me.
    Corrective: What are some clues that tell you how he feels?

    Nominalization: Converts an ongoing process into a static object.
    Utterance: Communication is key.
    Corrective: What typically helps two people to start talking?

    There are many more. I probably did a poor job with the corrective. It's literally 20 years since I took a course in this stuff. But I designed the Socialbot AI to pick up these patterns and ask follow up questions to elicit greater meaning and specificity from the human user.
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  6. #136
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AncientSpirits View Post
    Want to join a community where people use Type in a professional capacity?

    In the USA: Association of Psychological Type International. Or here on Facebook. Next conference is summer 2019. There are many local chapters.
    I can vouch for apti. I have been to local chapter events and found them to be interesting with some knowledgeable people. I would go to more except i travel so much and am often unable to go. The best thing I did was a two day training event with Linda Berens which was awesome.
    Last edited by highlander; 12-17-2017 at 02:38 PM.
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  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    @AncientSpirits
    This. So much this. My questions are an attempt at learning from another view point, seeing where my models are lacking and where they have merit.

    However, my experience has been that instead of listening, engaging in discussion, and learning from one another, what happens is an almost automatic defensiveness of one's perspective. I'm guilty of that defensiveness and am trying to be more aware of it. Also, I think that understanding one another has gotten more difficult as our communities grow and change because communication is based on a lot of assumptions about common experiences and cultural norms.
    That people get emotional, political, etc in the Type community reminds us that Type by itself is not enough.

    For me, I can get defensive when I feel that I have something to lose. So the the root of that suffering is me staying attached. I believe, since we each have some karmic obligations, staying attached may be appropriate. In those cases, the trick is to remain present, to allow everything to well-up and express itself, and once it's had its say, to let go of it.

    Here's a page from Jung on Yoga. While Jung and Ram Dass are talking in terms of chakras, you can just think of them as levels of consciousness.



    What are your thoughts on how people can better coordinate?
    I suggest joining a women's or men's group, the kind that emphasizes practicing how to interact with honesty and respect for yourself and others. If you can stay looking at someone in the eye, allowing each person to speak and act without fancy language or anger, allowing questions to confirm integrity, then that goes a long way. Moreover, if you can set some commitments for yourself each week, no matter how small, and follow through on those, that's also helpful. I might use playing tennis a metaphor. Dancing is fine too. In order to play or dance together, you need to practice with the other person, sure, and to do that well, have respect for them and for you, including knowing when it's time to move on to someone else or doing something different with that person.

    Some tools:

    -- Learn tennis, dance or such to practice pairs-work
    -- Perspective shifting using tools like Type
    -- "Mindfulness" practices (minding self and others)
    -- Powerful shared experiences can act as a glue
    -- Staying in the moment (stay relevant and present to what's in front of you now)
    -- Do a stress relieving activity so those things don't interfere in your relationships
    -- Striving for virtue rather than the lowest common denominators
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  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I can vouch for apti. I have been to local chapter events and found them to be interesting with some knowledgeable people. I would go to more except i travel so much and am often unable to go. The best thing I did was a two day training event with Linda Berens which was awesome.
    Thanks for the personal recommendation. :-)

    On a related topic, it's important to keep in mind that some of us professionals have been involved with type for twenty, thirty, even forty years. Most of the booklets I wrote with Linda Berens are 15 to 20 years old. Of course, some of our language and methods have changed during that time. Linda learned temperament from David Keirsey personally in the early 70s. Naturally, some innovations and shifts in perspective have occurred. Broadly, in the type community, a lot happened with the 8 cognitive processes, particularly during the mid 1990s to mid 2000s, before I started my neuroscience research, and shifts are still occurring ten years later....

  9. #139
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    Here are some potential stocking stuffers for the holidays:

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  10. #140
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    Goodbye Dario Nardi.

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