• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[MBTI General] Why Introverted Intuitives Struggle In The Modern World

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,578
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
So this person wrote a two part article. I'm interested in anyone's thoughts. I'll provide mine.

Why INFJ, INFP, INTJ, & INTP Types Struggle in Modern Life

Why INFJ, INFP, INTJ, & INTP Types Struggle in Modern Life (Part 2)

An excerpt: "Collectively comprising little more than 10% of the general population, the IN types (INFJ, INFP, INTJ, & INTP) are rare and unusual birds. If we harken back to humanity’s tribal days, we would likely find only a few INs in a given tribe. At that time, they would have assumed roles such as sage, healer, Shaman or prophet—anything that capitalized on their powers of insight and intuition. Indeed, their rare and unusual gifts would have made INs a precious commodity. Knowing that they played a critical role in their tribe’s well-being would have engendered a deep sense of self-worth in these types.

Fast-forwarding to the present day, INs find themselves in a very different and ultimately more difficult predicament. Instead of being born into a tribe and assuming a meaningful role within that community, INs must now find or create their own tribe, as well as their purpose within it. Unfortunately, many INs discover that the path to doing so is a rough and rocky one; finding themselves and their best-fit niche rarely proves as smooth or easy as they anticipate.

Further complicating this situation is the growing concentration of power and influence among a small subset of individuals. Due to the reach of the internet and other forms of mass media, a single individual can now command the attention of millions. And while this may be a boon for a fortunate few, it can leave many INs feeling as though their own ideas and insights are superfluous or unimportant.
"


What do you think about this?

I sort of think it's crap and here's why.

The article states that today's world is shifting - towards the EPs being prominent and in charge and that the introverted intuitives have such difficulty with the fast paced current world where we are bombarded with stimulation and information.

What? Let's take the statement, "At that time, they would have assumed roles such as sage, healer, Shaman or prophet—anything that capitalized on their powers of insight and intuition. Indeed, their rare and unusual gifts would have made INs a precious commodity."How many shamans, sages or prophets would there be? People would be rewarded for gathering resources - hunting, fishing, tending to crops, raising animals to eat, etc. Men who were strong, a good provider and could protect their families were valued. Let's go back to the year 1800 which is more recent - at the time when the right to bear arms was important. At that time, 80% of people were farmers in the US. It could be that INXXs would be great farmers but I don't think as a rule they would enjoy it so much as other things.

A fast paced world with a lot of change forces a lot of ambiguity upon us. I believe that intuitives have some natural advantages over sensors in dealing with this - well at least as compared to SJ types. The second thing is the increasing importance of the written word. Let's compare to fifty years ago and take a look at a typical office job. It was before email. You could hand write notes and type up memos on a typewriter but I imagine this was not an incredibly efficient way to communicate. So naturally people had lots of meetings, business lunches and dinners with each other and talked on the phone. It was an environment naturally suited for extraverts who liked to talk and introverts were at a distinct disadvantage in a room full of extraverts where they couldn't get in a word edgewise. The importance of electronic written communication in todays world cannot be underestimated and introverts tend to gravitate more towards this kind of communication than extraverts. They tend to be good at it. I suppose Facebook is more suited to EPs but how important is that particular medium to our everyday lives? It's mostly a form of entertainment and chance to snoop on what others you know or have known are up to.

Also, what is this about introverted intuitives being overwhelmed with information and that they can't keep up. Who says introverts can absorb information any better than extraverts? Are EPs better suited to texting each other throughout the day? Maybe. Then again, maybe using a mobile phone can waste a lot of time and interfere with our ability to relate to people (i know heresy).

Let's take the fact that personality types has become a mainstream things and INFPs, INFJs, INTPs and INTJs realize that there are actually other people out there like them. A LOT of them. That's a nice thing to know. It's certainly comforting, affirming and helps to build self acceptance and self esteem.

So mostly I think those articles are complete garbage - which typifies the junk about personality type on the Internet today. It surprises me to see the comments from those that are saying, "oh you are exactly right!". My guess is that today's world is ideally suited for introverted intuitives in a way that that hasn't been seen in history.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Introverted Intuitives are often at the cutting-edge of change and progress, and even make it possible. Eventually, those who could not have envisioned such progress, even if given a million years, take over and begin to rule things. These are typically the SJ types.
 
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
5,100
I think your assessment is fair. The internet is introvert friendly as far as I’m concerned. I’ve amassed how many comments here since May? You’d be lucky to get that much conversation out of me IRL in a decade! Plus my thoughts are easily conveyed in written form. Pre internet me was a very quiet inarticulate (as far as conversing with others) guy. I was that quiet brooding guy reading a book in the corner. This medium lends itself to introverts in private and business life. Hell most of the people who brought about the technological revolution are/were most likely also introverts. As my friend said a few months back, it took a while but the nerds have won.
 

Red Memories

Haunted Echoes
Joined
Jun 3, 2017
Messages
6,280
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
215
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I'm sorry, I fail to see how the world is even run better by EPs. Many tasks seem centered around Te, Fe, and Si. Intuitives of any type may have trouble surviving mundane every day things, let alone someone who is something like an Fi dom (includes some sensors even!)

But get this,
these perceivers are the ones who try and invent new ways to do things, or new orders in the system. Sure, you need all types, but without these types, who is going to do anything?

And personally, I think Ni is actually one of the greatest functions for "innovation", more because Ni draws connects to find solutions to a bigger picture. Not all may use their Ni for this, but speaking strictly of the function, it very well could.
 

LucieCat

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
665
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I really don't see the world as being run by EPs. Of course, I'm not saying that ENFPs, ENTPs, ESFPs, and ESTPs can't be great leaders. But I feel like those types aren't usually seen as good leaders by the majority.
If Se and Ne dominated the entire world, nothing would ever get done. Just kidding of course.
I'm an ENFP and no one ever thinks of me as a "leader" in the traditional sense. Maybe that also has to do with my Enneagram. I thought I was a 6w7, but I was reading a book about the Enneagram leadership styles and I really resonated completely with the Type 7 description- leading through inspiring others and encouragement. So maybe I'm really 7w6.
ENFPs do have the tendency to be really good at seeing people's good qualities and strengths. I've often found that ability useful to help others. I've been called an optimist for it, but I think I'm really neither an optimist nor a pessimist. I can just see the talent and potential and positive qualities in many people when they just can't see it in themselves.
Regardless, I love the insight the IN types bring to the world. I wish there were more of them.
We also desperately need more well-developed Ti in the world too. And well developed Ni. And well, more well-developed versions of every cognitive function.
 

caspar

New member
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Messages
14
MBTI Type
INTJ
I think your assessment is fair. The internet is introvert friendly as far as I’m concerned. I’ve amassed how many comments here since May? You’d be lucky to get that much conversation out of me IRL in a decade! Plus my thoughts are easily conveyed in written form. Pre internet me was a very quiet inarticulate (as far as conversing with others) guy. I was that quiet brooding guy reading a book in the corner. This medium lends itself to introverts in private and business life. Hell most of the people who brought about the technological revolution are/were most likely also introverts. As my friend said a few months back, it took a while but the nerds have won.

Just wanted to add that I think in the past the internet favored introverts, but today's internet (and in the future) actually favors extroverts. Social media is dominated by extroverts, and social media dominates internet usage. A number of companies check applicants social media presence before hiring. If your social media presence is negligible, they either assume you have something to hide and that you don't show your real accounts, or that you are a hermit.

Edit:
To give an example, a friend told me her boss "forced" her to become friends on fb and that she should like all his "great" posts of nothingness. He's more of a narcissistic extrovert and presents himself as the best person ever on social media.
 
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
5,100
Just wanted to add that I think in the past the internet favored introverts, but today's internet (and in the future) actually favors extroverts. Social media is dominated by extroverts, and social media dominates internet usage. A number of companies check applicants social media presence before hiring. If your social media presence is negligible, they either assume you have something to hide and that you don't show your real accounts, or that you are a hermit.
Bah. I’ve never touched Facebook or similar venues. Never will. Forums are as close as I get. Well, leave it to extroverts to ruin a good thing. Kidding! Kidding. Partially.
 

caspar

New member
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Messages
14
MBTI Type
INTJ
Bah. I’ve never touched Facebook or similar venues. Never will. Forums are as close as I get. Well, leave it to extroverts to ruin a good thing. Kidding! Kidding. Partially.

I agree with you, I prefer forums over social media, as forums are more about substance then style. I'm just afraid that that's not the case for a majority of people, who have "taken over" the internet, but I get your point that it also does help introverts to get their opinions across.
 

Atomic Fiend

New member
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
7,275
So mostly I think those articles are complete garbage - which typifies the junk about personality type on the Internet today.
There ya go.
It surprises me to see the comments from those that are saying, "oh you are exactly right!". My guess is that today's world is ideally suited for introverted intuitives in a way that that hasn't been seen in history.
Really? It does? Because that seems like the most obvious thing in the world, to get behind an idea that you're life is more difficult then others based on information given to you. The entirity of social politics is based on this fact. If MBTI was not a theory but an accepted belief I bet you there would be bills in the house and senate pushing for mandatory introvert hours where they can go without being bothered.
 

hjgbujhghg

I am
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
3,326
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I honestly don't like this kind of thinking process. I'm an IN, I'm too special for this world... Yes I do have my own bit of a special snowflake syndrome, but it's not based on being an introverted intuitive type. I believe such opinions to be really limiting, one needs to find the power within the self to succeed in the world no matter their type and every type struggles with different things.
EP types are usually too focused on the big thing and miss all the important details, they usually suck with discipline and rules as well so they're cappy in jobs that require work with detail.
SJs are stubborn and stuck in their ways, they're definitely not revolutionary leaders, but they're good at working with details and handle stereotypical work better than other types etc...
Every type has its own place in society and it's up to them to find it. If an ESFP wants to be a scientist and an INTJ a performer artist well... yes their ways will be rocky and hard, but eventually it's their job to find where they belong to and what they're really good at just like any other type.

There've been many succesfull, strong, and powerful INs throughout the history, like Jung, Newton, Nietzsche, Einstein, Curie, J.K. Rowling, Tolkien, King, Morrison, Martin, Shakespeare... Jesus I could go on forever. Even today's INs are wonderful people full of brilliant ideas.

Anyway... WTF, what tribe? Like do you really believe that during the tribal times people had such a strong sense of personality that we can really talk about personality types? Or ever INs? Those people were hunters living for survival, you can't possibly think fo them as MBTI types, that's just... sorry, stupid.

Feeling sorry for one's self because "Oh, I'm a poor IN and nobody understands me" is really easy, really destructive a doesn't require and sort of personal growth or actual crtical thinking. It's the easiest nonsense you can say to feel the right to feel sorry about yourself.
Everyone fights for their place in society and yes IN types do too. You're either a winer or a loser no matter the type.
 

hjgbujhghg

I am
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
3,326
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Oh and... Just to correct the facts. People who are considered to be shamans or people with mystical abilities were usually mentally retarded. During the tribal times people did not understand mental retardation or mental illnesses so they thought that such people are somehow gifted and yes they were special, but in that sort of way nobody wants to really be "special." So I don't know what kind of a "professional" made this article but it's full of absolute nonsense that subjectively hyper-idealizes IN types and works rather with feelings of personal misery and uniqueness than actual facts of any sort. Of you'd study a history at least s few minutes in your life, you could not possibily believe that tribal shamans were IN types....Jesus...
 

caspar

New member
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Messages
14
MBTI Type
INTJ
I honestly don't like this kind of thinking process. I'm an IN, I'm too special for this world... Yes I do have my own bit of a special snowflake syndrome, but it's not based on being an introverted intuitive type. I believe such opinions to be really limiting, one needs to find the power within the self to succeed in the world no matter their type and every type struggles with different things.
EP types are usually too focused on the big thing and miss all the important details, they usually suck with discipline and rules as well so they're cappy in jobs that require work with detail.
SJs are stubborn and stuck in their ways, they're definitely not revolutionary leaders, but they're good at working with details and handle stereotypical work better than other types etc...
Every type has its own place in society and it's up to them to find it. If an ESFP wants to be a scientist and an INTJ a performer artist well... yes their ways will be rocky and hard, but eventually it's their job to find where they belong to and what they're really good at just like any other type.

There've been many succesfull, strong, and powerful INs throughout the history, like Jung, Newton, Nietzsche, Einstein, Curie, J.K. Rowling, Tolkien, King, Morrison, Martin, Shakespeare... Jesus I could go on forever. Even today's INs are wonderful people full of brilliant ideas.

Anyway... WTF, what tribe? Like do you really believe that during the tribal times people had such a strong sense of personality that we can really talk about personality types? Or ever INs? Those people were hunters living for survival, you can't possibly think fo them as MBTI types, that's just... sorry, stupid.

Feeling sorry for one's self because "Oh, I'm a poor IN and nobody understands me" is really easy, really destructive a doesn't require and sort of personal growth or actual crtical thinking. It's the easiest nonsense you can say to feel the right to feel sorry about yourself.
Everyone fights for their place in society and yes IN types do too. You're either a winer or a loser no matter the type.

I largely agree with you, especially about the success aspect, but I think in tribal societies people's characters and personalities were developed as like today. I would say that even in a very basic society not everyone was able to take everyone's position, and that's probably the main reason why we have developed different personalities, which at least to some extend are hard-wired in our genes. An interesting aspect is that during human development perception of personalities and their "usefulness" to society has changed quite a lot. Until not that long ago fearless men with antisocial tendencies and little self-control were feared by society, but also high up on the social ladder, as they were the best warriors, and violence was an integral part of human existence (~25% of the male population in the stone age died of violence). Today people with this personality are still feared, but are largely at the bottom of society and go in and out of prison. Even the military and police don't want them anymore, as their recklessness creates resentment among the population.
 

Riva

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
2,371
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I've never known an INTJ who struggles in any world.

And I know 4 close ones in RL.

I think it'es best to describe Ni and instinct than intuition. They trust their instinct. It leads them fine.

Se collects
Te filters what is necessary
Ni delivers instinct.

An INTJ thinks it is thinking but in reality it's instinct acting fast. They might be able to immediately make sense of this instint. It's not a magical undescribably force for them. If they sit down and think about it they can think where the instinct came from. So they might think they are thinking fast. But in my opinion they are Ni delivers them super fast instinct.

I wonder whether INTJs would disagree with me.

Don't know enough INFJs to have noticed this.
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
4,602
Glad people here aren't eating up this bullshit.
 

Yama

Permabanned
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
7,684
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
an INxx "woe is me for being too special and unique, why doesn't anyone understand me" circlejerk
 

Ghost

Megustalations
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
1,042
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
an INxx "woe is me for being too special and unique, why doesn't anyone understand me" circlejerk

It's more of a squarejerk.

I'm not a fan of Drenth's articles.
 

Forever

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
8,551
MBTI Type
NiFi
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
So my question is... how does one view an INxx type?

It’s okay to critique, just find something to add or replace.

For the most part, those without Ni just seem to insult them without understanding or try to come to see from their perspective. Even if you believe Drenth’s all hogwash. I don’t think it’s his intention to.

(he types himself as INTP)

I mean the whole circle/square/triangle jerk definitely does happen on this forum and Facebook groups for sure, but it doesn’t mean you now have to invalidate everyone just because the attention seekers have over done it. (This is what happens when you let the attention seekers troll a type that’s not even their own, hence in the past why I was so critical of people allowing of them being a type they’re not)

I’m seeing less and less empathy in this forum and it’s making me sad. At first, I felt humbled that I wasn’t sympathetic towards others enough, now I live in like a place where everybody is so concerned about themselves and forget how anyone else comes to their own conclusions.

At least Drenth tries, he collaborates others and not everything is entirely his own writing. Why trust the opposition if they have nothing to contribute?

Sometimes I wonder if people are here to contribute anything at all.
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
4,602
So my question is... how does one view an INxx type?

It’s okay to critique, just find something to add or replace.

For the most part, those without Ni just seem to insult them without understanding or try to come to see from their perspective. Even if you believe Drenth’s all hogwash. I don’t think it’s his intention to.

(he types himself as INTP)

I mean the whole circle/square/triangle jerk definitely does happen on this forum and Facebook groups for sure, but it doesn’t mean you now have to invalidate everyone just because the attention seekers have over done it. (This is what happens when you let the attention seekers troll a type that’s not even their own, hence in the past why I was so critical of people allowing of them being a type they’re not)

I’m seeing less and less empathy in this forum and it’s making me sad. At first, I felt humbled that I wasn’t sympathetic towards others enough, now I live in like a place where everybody is so concerned about themselves and forget how anyone else comes to their own conclusions.

At least Drenth tries, he collaborates others and not everything is entirely his own writing. Why trust the opposition if they have nothing to contribute?

Sometimes I wonder if people are here to contribute anything at all.

Your words have meaning, but they do not relate to the OP.

OP is talking about how certain types are more disadvantaged in the world for being a certain type. It relates to how INXX types in particular have issues with the "modern" world (though I fail to see how the modern world in particular is an issue for INXX types anyway...not like the past was any better).

Sorry, but being born an S type doesn't mean that I'm a millionaire, or that I have a successful career, or that I am skilled physically, or that I get things done on time, or that I can connect with people better, or that I am at all better at life or have an easier time in general than an intuitive out there. Life is rarely handed to ANYONE out there on a silver platter, no matter the type.

This isn't anything like speaking about how those born into a low socioeconomic status are disadvantaged. No. This is inventing a scenario to feel special and claim that one has it "harder" than someone else for an imaginary, bullshit reason.

Articles about how N types are disadvantaged read to me like an article would on how people with attached earlobes are disadvantaged over people with detached earlobes. It's almost nonsensical.

Yes, sensing and inutition are two different ways of thinking about and interacting with the world. But BOTH have advantages and disadvantages. One isn't more advantageous than the other unless you are looking at specific fields. Even then, I'd say that this isn't necessarily the case.

Not to mention there's the bullshit in this particular article about how intuitives in general only like to have powerful and meaningful roles in life. Do you think every person in the world, intuitive or not, actually get a choice in the matter? So few people in the world get to influence it in a powerful way, even if they wanted to. A lot of us just have to suck it up and work shitty jobs to get by in life. We all need to eat and pay for a roof over our heads. Not all of us can afford to run off and attempt to "change the world."

Hell, you're talking about invalidation... don't you think that by accepting this idea of INXX types having it harder than others that it invalidates the struggles of people of other types???
 

Dreamer

Potential is My Addiction
Joined
Jul 26, 2015
Messages
4,539
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
794
It's more of a squarejerk. I'm not a fan of Drenth's articles.

I've heard of square dancing...square jerking is...something like this?? :shrug:
 
Top