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  1. #51
    Vulnera Sanentur Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mysterious Stranger View Post
    Out of curiosity, I've always wondered what you get out of that?
    Well, being true to myself for one.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  2. #52
    🌒🌕🌘 The Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Well, being true to myself for one.
    well that does make a lot of sense, you daid for one, would you feel comfortable sharing any more?


  3. #53
    Hunting Shadows Earl Grey's Avatar
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    I wanted to say that there is no Te being an asshole, only assholes with Te, or assholes who can't listen to Te, but saying the latter probably just cements in that 'Te = asshole' thing. The joy of being Fe-less.

    Either way, this Te 'assholery' I feel, is a two-way street. The Te-user can soften up, but the recipient may also need to toughen up a little. Honestly, it's not that difficult to not be an asshole, so OP / other posters may have to clarify what is meant by being an 'asshole'- being honestly direct does not count (being brutally blunt, which emphasizes shock value and emotional impact, does).

    As for how to balance the needs of one with the needs of the many, making sure everyone is working together and doing their part towards the agreed-upon goal. Someone clears a path, the other paves the roads, some others are medics and stand watch- effectiveness in working towards the same, consensually, mutually agreed upon goal is already generally mutually beneficial and caring to others' needs.
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  4. #54
    Senior Member draon9's Avatar
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    Te users can be tactful if mature kind of like slade from teen titans.
    Do as you please we are as gods

  5. #55
    Super Moderator Yuu's Avatar
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    If pointing out the obvious makes one an asshole, then fine. I’m a very observant asshole
    “ Rise up and raise the iron roof off
    Now, Rise up and riot 'til the bomb drops
    Now, Rise up the time is right to sound off, so
    Rise with me, rise with me, rise with me (RISE UP!)”

  6. #56
    formerly Ravenetta Powehi's Avatar
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    I'll preface this by saying that I'm interpreting the word "asshole" as meaning "coming off in a negative way socially", whether or not that is the intention.

    It would involve processing more of the subjective data in the equation so to speak. The more compartmentalized Te is, the more it will process and express information without referencing the more subtle and subjective information at hand. There is always extra baggage attached to every interchange between people. Te tend to 'cut to the chase', or 'hit the nail on the head' and leave out extraneous information like feelings and perceptions. Because it offers this distilled/compartmentalized exchange of data, other Te-users or people familiar with the communication style can get on board with it and also let go of that extra baggage. People not familiar with it will attach more subjective data to it.

    For example:
    An abrupt/direct Te response could be given the added subjective information of assumed anger or rejection.

    A response that states the obvious too directly can make the listener feel stupid and so they assume the Te communication is intentionally putting them down.

    When the Te communication style stirs up negative emotions in the listener, they can start to attribute negative motives to person.

    It's something like a metaphor of a ship where the Te communicator is trying to set the course to optimize the goal or path through the ocean based on the wind and current, but there are a bunch of barnacles getting attached to the ship that drags it down causing it to burn more fuel.

    To avoid this the Te communicator may need to preface their statement to avoid miscommunication about their motives and feelings. However, it isn't entirely avoidable because people will tend to fill in the absence of emotional conveyance and so when the communication is abrupt and highly direct, it is easiest to assume the emotion is negative especially if the communication stirs up negative feelings in the listener. I've spent enough years with various T-doms to know that some people are actually capable of compartmentalizing their communication to mean only the words they choose without a bunch of subtext. It is always made more complicated because sometimes T's will have subtext, anger, try to make people feel stupid, etc, but my point is that it is not always the case.
    bunny omi


    "Powehi means “the adorned fathomless dark creation” or “embellished dark source of unending creation” and comes from the Kumulipo, an 18th century Hawaiian creation chant. A Hawaiian name given to the very first scientific confirmation of a black hole."

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  7. #57
    formerly Ravenetta Powehi's Avatar
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    A person could also add to the equation here, "How to listen to Te communication without being an asshole". What I wrote in the previous post is important for this. I would say to start by assuming the words mean exactly what they say without subtext, then if exchanges continue to reveal actual anger, rejection, arrogance, or deliberately negative intentions, then make that judgment, but don't start there. To immediately judge someone in a negative way is also an asshole thing to do.

    Words are like a gift, we can accept them graciously or suspiciously. It is kinder and less assholery to start by accepting words graciously without assuming negative motivations.
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  8. #58
    Hunting Shadows Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cat View Post
    Out of curiosity, I've always wondered what you get out of that?
    Your question comes across as 'what do you get out of being yourself?' I think there is a lot to take away from being yourself and being able to speak out the ideas of your mind. Some of the results from it is more often than not collateral damage (or collateral gain!) that the Fe-less folk are sometimes just completely missing unless pointed out to, and usually they have to do with some kind of 'emotional nuance', so to speak.

    I personally feel (haha, feel) as if sometimes people ask me for my input, and all I can do is honestly tell them what I see, what is just there and makes sense, just like @Yuu's example. I honestly do not understand why some people would end up seeing it negatively- and do not understand what else it is they might have been asking for. What else was I supposed to say? This is not a statement of judgement or ridicule. It is pure cluenessness. A staple sentence I have come to say is that "I mean/t no malice." Even so, I get told that the things I say are sometimes prickly and even hurt, even after years and years of friendship with the person. I do not see it. I cannot consider factors I don't even know exist.

    The best I can usually do is preface various conversations with, "Hey, if you ever wonder if I am feeling negatively towards you / if I am meaning something malicious with my words, feel free to ask."- sometimes it is something I have to repeat several times, but it's worth it once it sticks. I have found that the older I (and my peers) get, the more open and understanding people are, and the more willing they are to actually listen to that, though sometimes I have to initiate and show them that I truly mean it- I am clueless, please tell me. Their cooperation is something I do appreciate.


    And personally, I think such an approach is a Te + Fi thing, there is the Fi in that 'I understand everyone is different and I cannot and will not force them otherwise' but backed with a Te 'But do we need to have something that works despite that, somehow' and personally? This is the best thing I can come up with. That's my side. On the other side- the person speaking with the Te-user's side- what you can do is so very excellently described in @Ravenetta's post above. I find myself wishing for and expressing the same thing. It really is just that. It works both ways. If something I say backfires all I can wonder is "Wha-? What anger? What? Where? Why? How?" because on the other side I do not speak that way either, such things are just often not considered and not inserted into the conversation at all.
    S K Y K I N G
    It is said to have lived for hundreds of millions of years in the earth's ozone layer, above the clouds.
    Its existence had been completely unknown because it lived so high in the sky.
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  9. #59
    Super Moderator Yuu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenetta View Post
    I'll preface this by saying that I'm interpreting the word "asshole" as meaning "coming off in a negative way socially", whether or not that is the intention.

    It would involve processing more of the subjective data in the equation so to speak. The more compartmentalized Te is, the more it will process and express information without referencing the more subtle and subjective information at hand. There is always extra baggage attached to every interchange between people. Te tend to 'cut to the chase', or 'hit the nail on the head' and leave out extraneous information like feelings and perceptions. Because it offers this distilled/compartmentalized exchange of data, other Te-users or people familiar with the communication style can get on board with it and also let go of that extra baggage. People not familiar with it will attach more subjective data to it.

    For example:
    An abrupt/direct Te response could be given the added subjective information of assumed anger or rejection.

    A response that states the obvious too directly can make the listener feel stupid and so they assume the Te communication is intentionally putting them down.

    When the Te communication style stirs up negative emotions in the listener, they can start to attribute negative motives to person.

    It's something like a metaphor of a ship where the Te communicator is trying to set the course to optimize the goal or path through the ocean based on the wind and current, but there are a bunch of barnacles getting attached to the ship that drags it down causing it to burn more fuel.

    To avoid this the Te communicator may need to preface their statement to avoid miscommunication about their motives and feelings. However, it isn't entirely avoidable because people will tend to fill in the absence of emotional conveyance and so when the communication is abrupt and highly direct, it is easiest to assume the emotion is negative especially if the communication stirs up negative feelings in the listener. I've spent enough years with various T-doms to know that some people are actually capable of compartmentalizing their communication to mean only the words they choose without a bunch of subtext. It is always made more complicated because sometimes T's will have subtext, anger, try to make people feel stupid, etc, but my point is that it is not always the case.

    This is something I’ve often struggled with too.

    Eventually I’ve realized that it’s just projection. I am a fairly positive person, but I am not delusional. If someone asks me how things are I tell them, matter-of-factually-and then people add their own judgement:

    ”Hey, do you think I’d survive if I jumped off this three story building?”
    “No. I think you’d splatter like a bug.” “that’s just negative!”
    “Why are YOU so negative?!”

    Why do you insist on asking questions with unpleasant answers? Would it be better if I said “ Yeah! Do it! It’ll be great!” Cuz, J am capable of lying.

    Honestly, I don’t think being indirect is polite at all. I think it wastes time, is manipulative,and can obviously result in misunderstandings. What’s so congenial about that?
    “ Rise up and raise the iron roof off
    Now, Rise up and riot 'til the bomb drops
    Now, Rise up the time is right to sound off, so
    Rise with me, rise with me, rise with me (RISE UP!)”
    Likes Powehi liked this post

  10. #60
    Hunting Shadows Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    Honestly, I don’t think being indirect is polite at all. I think it wastes time, is manipulative,and can obviously result in misunderstandings. What’s so congenial about that?
    Sometimes, I wonder how much of it is done out of self-preservation/pressure/defensiveness- because of their experiences with the folk who indeed ARE assholes with Te-sledgehammers. Emphasis on the sledgehammering instead of actual Te-ing (if they are even Te at all).

    I cannot fault that. I encourage those who talk to me to be more direct with me. I'm also willing to show them that they can afford to do so with at least me. I very much appreciate people who can speak up and tell me I am wrong, or being unfair, or even (gasp!) irrational.
    S K Y K I N G
    It is said to have lived for hundreds of millions of years in the earth's ozone layer, above the clouds.
    Its existence had been completely unknown because it lived so high in the sky.
    Likes Yuu liked this post

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