[Fi] What does Fi look like and what are ii'ts strengths and applications?

[PeaceBaby]

Right, I did think of that. Mind you I have my ideas on Fi myself...but I wanted to clear the slate and have people question things without adding to the bias. So basically, checking in with your heart/resonance? This resonates with me, this does not?

There are many older threads too you might reference in your exploration.

What does resonance feel like? What does it feel like in your body when you sense resonance or the lack of resonance?

 

[burningranger]

I was just asking if that is what you were hinting at. Is that process part of what you would consider applying Fi to any given issue?

I specifically didn't want older threads, altough I've read some stuff...because I wanted to start a discussion on how I feel a lot of us are not engaging with it too. But if we aren't it would be good to know from those that feel they are more clear on what it actually is...wel...what it actually is

As far as answering your question on what resonance feels like...I would say generally lightness means truth and heaviness untruth. The same mechanism that cues you in one when something is clearly "wrong" like killing someone..witout having to reference a law book. Then there are almost infinite gradients to that on any given issue. But that is a mechanism I feel applies to everyone in general.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I was just asking if that is what you were hinting at. Is that process part of what you would consider applying Fi to any given issue?

I specifically didn't want older threads, altough I've read some stuff...because I wanted to start a discussion on how I feel a lot of us are not engaging with it too. But if we aren't it would be good to know from those that feel they are more clear on what it actually is...wel...what it actually is

As far as answering your question on what resonance feels like...I would say generally lightness means truth and heaviness untruth. The same mechanism that cues you in one when something is clearly "wrong" like killing someone..witout having to reference a law book. Then there are almost infinite gradients to that on any given issue.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on resonance, and lightness vs heaviness. What kinds of situations do you think having that sense of body resonance might have value? (When you answer that, might you be helping answer the question in your OP?) What might you do to increase your awareness of the body feelings?

But that is a mechanism I feel applies to everyone in general.

What if it is not? What value then might Fi hold?

 

[Poki]

Agreed. Ji (most notable in dominant process) indeed share a common approach. I would say, each function prioritizes a certain data set, but that does not mean other data sets have no value or aren't utilized. An Fi user though has to reach farther to appreciate data not based on "feelings", much as the Ti individual has to reach further to see value in the F-based data.

It doesnt take much to see the value, but to prioritize it above Ti is not natural. Fi is data to me like cause and effect fed into Ti. Just like F users and their perception of T, i see way to many times where F, both Fi and Fe do not lead to the correct decision. I really do value and appreciate the finesse with which Fi operates though i do feel the need to step in when it becomes "rationalization" for sake of coddling Fi with to much expense elsewhere. I step in MUCH less then a Te user would though as i will watch and observe to get an impression of how well it works for that situation and judge the effectiveness based on situation.

 

[burningranger]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on resonance, and lightness vs heaviness. What kinds of situations do you think having that sense of body resonance might have value? (When you answer that, might you be helping answer the question in your OP?) What might you do to increase your awareness of the body feelings?



What if it is not? What value then might Fi hold?

That's what I'm trying to find out haha

This would be an entirely different topic, which I'd rather not get into. Ultimately I know it is the same for everyone because that is the very mechanism of our body/mind. Not that most people use it like that...it takes a awareness that much be re-confidionted and trained in most of us ....but the ONLY way to make any choice in life is based on how we feel about things. So we don't use it properly but we all use it. Even if it's how we feel about what we believe/think. It goes largely unconscious for most people...which is why we can get triggered and angry at something in the world...and believe it's actually what is OUT there that is affecting us emotionally...when really it's only our thinking about what is out there...meaning it's really just our body/mind cueing us in on what we are believing about the situation. But like I said this would be opening a completely different can of worms....

I'd rather stick to the MBTI model as much as possible and accertaing what value exactly it has to offer us. I think we need to come up with something simpler and better. If you take this forum as an example...with so much discussion going on throughout the years...you'd think we'd have a thread we could point Fi or Te users to ...to better understand their strenngths and weaknesses...but I guess it's symptomatic of the fact that there is sooooo much contradictory information out there regarding this stuff...which is why I created the thread

 

[Poki]

What does Fi look like, and how does a Fi user use it in life (and what for)? What are it's applications and strengths?
If possible, please contrast what you write with a non-Fi user.

I'm trying to reunderstand my Fi as a benefit to me in my life. As far as I can see..I seem to have some sort of strength whose value I'm completely blind to. I would like to change that and feeld good about my personal strengths in a manner that made sense. I wrote in another thread how I would like us all (the MBTI communitty) to talk about these things more in-depth. It seems everyone talks about these functions, but there's very little information on how it is any way enpowering to be aware of one's major functions. Or how to apply them in the right manner in life.

All descriptions I come across online are super abstract when it comes to Fi...as if it was all written by people who know nothing about it. They make all Fi users come across as more authentic than other types or in anyway more aware of their feelings...in my personal experience this doesn't seem the case at all. Help me solve this mystery, please.

Remove revenge, anger, all "quick" immediate response reactions. Ask, process, feel, understand...basically stop extroverting action. Use extroversion as input not output.

 

[burningranger]

Remove revenge, anger, all "quick" immediate response reactions. Ask, process, feel, understand...basically stop extroverting action. Use extroversion as input not output.

Great piece of advice. It makes sense that by using extroversion merely as input, the supposed auxiliary function with then have to kick in as the prefered way of dealing with information internally.

Do you think though, if this thread was on Ti, you could answer my question more directly? As in...what are Tis strenghts and application?
I might not have formulated the question in the best manner, but really I'm looking for a more simplified understanding of the function.

 

[Poki]

What you are hearing from others about Fi, is a function that is presented in a way that it only CAN be presented. It has nothing to do with objective value or strengths, but rather, a sense of being. It's...you. But, to try and give you a "strength" at least in a way you are requesting of it, I can tell you what it has and always will do for me. Well let me just say, that this is something I've felt long before getting into personality type, and is something I assume to be attributed to Fi, though, for all I know, it might not be. But, one thing I highly relate to with the ENFP typing, ESFPs do this as well, is that they appear to be the sorts of people that can just "go". At the drop of the hat, they are there. There is little structure in their lives in the view of many of those around them. But here's a secret, there IS a structure, and there IS an organization. There IS something holding all that external crazy together, and it's something no one ever sees externally. You can see it, if you know what to look for, but to the average person, that structure is absent.

What I'm talking about, and what I've always known and felt of myself, is that amidst these fun adventures I absolutely feed off of in the day-to-day, the ideas, the creativity! The glue, is me. What I mean by that, is that I have this inner understanding of myself. I know who I am inside and out, how I feel, what makes me tick, my insecurities, how they come out in my actions and words, my experiences and how they made me feel, how I've then grown from those experiences, or didn't. My hopes, my dreams. How those dreams guide me and where they even stem from! I know how the people I've met have shaped me in ways, emotionally and mentally, that some people wouldn't consider examining. While I continue to find new bits of me each and every day, and in my times of introspection (which I do quite often), each day I have the confidence that what I know of myself in that given moment, is the fullest I could ever know myself, with no rock unturned. And yet, I continue to surprise myself as I jump into new experiences and meet new people, that NEW information of myself, a new crevice has just been discovered, and it's always such an enlightening and satisfying experience. It's never unsettling or jarring for me.

So! to return to that strength you seek of Fi. For me, the strength of Fi comes from how deeply I feel I know myself. It is such a solid and confident place, it is exactly what allows me to take those leaps and jump to new heights and dream those fantastic dreams. THAT, is the internal structure I speak of, and what I have always known as true in my life. I may not know what's around the corner, what will happen to me in this situation or that, or even if I will like it, but it doesn't matter, because so long as I know of myself is true, and it FEELS true (it really is an inner sense of just "knowing") then whatever happens to me externally, whatever is thrown my way, good or bad, can do no more harm to me than I can do to myself...if that makes sense. I genuinely believe I am the sole gatekeeper to my own demise and downfall in life, and so long as I do not allow that to happen, so long as I make that decision not to step towards that direction, I can just keep on smiling and keep on living life to its fullest.

I read Ne to the fullest...and avoidance of that Fi deeper understanding. It reminds me of INTJs love of "subconcious" as an end all be all. A black box to stuff things in because it fits.

 

[anticlimatic]

Fi looks like resting bitch face.

 

[Abcdenfp]

Great piece of advice. It makes sense that by using extroversion merely as input, the supposed auxiliary function with then have to kick in as the prefered way of dealing with information internally. Do you think though, if this thread was on Ti, you could answer my question more directly? As in...what are Tis strenghts and application? I might not have formulated the question in the best manner, but really I'm looking for a more simplified understanding of the function.

It's a hard question and as an extroverted feeler I understand exactly what your asking for and I've attempted to ask this question but bungled it up, your doing a really good job of asking a question that I too want the simplified answers to.

Remove revenge, anger, all "quick" immediate response reactions. Ask, process, feel, understand...basically stop extroverting action. Use extroversion as input not output.

This finally clicked what you have been saying to me for the last couple of months. Thank you Poki .. lol progress

 

[Poki]

It's a hard question and as an extroverted feeler I understand exactly what your asking for and I've attempted to ask this question but bungled it up, your doing a really good job of asking a question that I too want the simplified answers to.

This finally clicked what you have been saying to me for the last couple of months. Thank you Poki .. lol progress

Lol, i dont even remember what i have been telling you glad to help

 

[Abcdenfp]

Lol, i dont even remember what i have been telling you glad to help

lol basically to Use extroversion as input not output. But I couldn't wrap my mind around it.. feeling and reaction usually go hand in hand for me , I react from feeling straight to action . But it kinda clicked that I can use the extroverted fe to gather the way I normally do , reading , gauging other people's emotions almost like reading the room and go to Fi to sort out how I feel about it and then process with my other functions before making decisions.
I think lol

 

[Poki]

lol basically to Use extroversion as input not output. But I couldn't wrap my mind around it.. feeling and reaction usually go hand in hand for me , I react from feeling straight to action . But it kinda clicked that I can use the extroverted fe to gather the way I normally do , reading , gauging other people's emotions almost like reading the room and go to Fi to sort out how I feel about it and then process with my other functions before making decisions.
I think lol

Decisions are long term things that happen...understanding is priority. Dont make decisions on people or reading a room instantly. Use that read to get more info and understand people...no decisions...processing is the understanding of someone.

Lets use an Dom Fi example and a Dom Fe example. Dom Fi finds a guy, they talk, they chat, they process their feelings on what the other says, does, acts, believes and learns them, learns how they mesh, the interactions, etc. An ENFP just runs with ideas and actions. Whether they are actually a good fit is not even considered...then they manipulate their thinking to control feelings because of a few things that went good or bad and...good luck with that...its a good way to get stick in shitty and accept it.

Because of this an dom Fi will better learn who, what, how to interact and ENFPs are still just running.

One of the things i have actually helped my ENFP with is how to properly pick people to surround yourself with...she is realizing how much better the quality of life is, how much deeper she can feel without the shit she rationalized, etc. Because the way she went about things. Show her how her quick half ass judgement actually applies to her and that its actually a horrible way to judge people and shallow causing you to run from stupid shit and not really good at picking out the people that are best for you. And she finds people she loves even more then the shit she held on to.

How to grow and not just experience and run.

 

[Dreamer]

Decisions are long term things that happen...understanding is priority. Dont make decisions on people or reading a room instantly. Use that read to get more info and understand people...no decisions...processing is the understanding of someone.

Lets use an Dom Fi example and a Dom Fe example. Dom Fi finds a guy, they talk, they chat, they process their feelings on what the other says, does, acts, believes and learns them, learns how they mesh, the interactions, etc. An ENFP just runs with ideas and actions. Whether they are actually a good fit is not even considered...then they manipulate their thinking to control feelings because of a few things that went good or bad and...good luck with that...its a good way to get stick in shitty and accept it.

Because of this an dom Fi will better learn who, what, how to interact and ENFPs are still just running.

One of the things i have actually helped my ENFP with is how to properly pick people to surround yourself with...she is realizing how much better the quality of life is, how much deeper she can feel without the shit she rationalized, etc. Because the way she went about things. Show her how her quick half ass judgement actually applies to her and that its actually a horrible way to judge people and shallow causing you to run from stupid shit and not really good at picking out the people that are best for you. And she finds people she loves even more then the shit she held on to.

How to grow and not just experience and run.

Being conscious of the types of people that emotionally drain me and are just vampires to my enthusiasm and vitality, then doing what I can to avoid those types in life is something I've learned to do over the years is a crucial part to my overall happiness. I already have my own negative feelings and doubts to contend with, I don't need others' negative feels to bring me down! Though, helping out a good friend or family member is the exception.

 

[Poki]

Being conscious of the types of people that emotionally drain me and are just vampires to my enthusiasm and vitality, then doing what I can to avoid those types in life is something I've learned to do over the years is a crucial part to my overall happiness. I already have my own negative feelings and doubts to contend with, I don't need others' negative feels to bring me down! Though, helping out a good friend or family member is the exception.

Yes, it applies in alot of areas, not just people. That was just a quick easy example to use. Properly identifying, understanding, and working with lifes vampires, sometimes working is letting go.

 

[Population: 1]

Fi looks like resting bitch face.

Or brooding bastard face for male Fi dom/aux users.

 

[Flâneuse]

Fi strengths (IMHO):
- Often involves a tendency to follow an individual, internally-formed value system more than adhering to collective values. (Of course everyone does both to some degree.) While collective values are an essential part of cultures and other group identities and can be a positive thing, there are also times when they are harmful and need to be questioned.
- Very well-developed Fi is not only adept at understanding the self and forming its own set of values by looking within, but is often also good at forming a nuanced understanding of others and seeing from their points of view without abandoning one’s own point of view. I've also found highly refined Fi to be good at understanding and appreciating both the vast and subtle differences that exist between individuals, while also seeing underlying similarities and forming an idea of what the underlying human nature/condition that connects us is. (Some of this might be my e9 talking.)
- Although Fi-users can be internally critical, we typically do not want to control others. Because we tend to believe value is created by the individual, we tend to support others' right to choose their own paths in life (even if we don’t understand them or would never want them for ourselves) as long as they harm no one else or infringe on someone else's freedom.

Fi is about having a set of values that define oneself as an individual rather than as a collective like an Fe user. It's a subjective function that is ruled by personal experience. I need to question why something would affect me first before diving into anything. Always have to have a chat with Ms. Fi before taking a step out of boundary. Dominant Ne and Se users tend to take that leap without much hesitation, since Fi is in their auxiliary. They are naturally comfortable using their dominant function because it's, well, their dominant. Fi users tend to think twice, I suppose. That could be either a positive or a negative thing depending on the situation at hand.

Agree with this. Although I have few-and-far-between impulsive moments, I can be very, very uncomfortable with "just doing something" and usually feel a strong need to have a values-based basis behind my actions. Because Fi is not particularly action-oriented in itself, and instead is far more focused on creating and refining an internal framework of values, I sometimes have a hard time translating Fi values into concrete goals, and even once I’ve settled on a goal and start taking steps to get there (where Te in service of Fi comes in) I keep introspecting at every step to make sure that even my methods are in alignment with my values. The price I pay for so much deliberation is efficiency -- I obviously don’t get as much done as I would if the goals themselves were the #1 priority like is often the case for Te-Fi types. Then again, that's okay by me because efficiency isn't that high on my list of priorities - it's more important that what I do is true to myself and personally significant.

I think IxFPs (especially INFPs) can come across as lost, waffling, apathetic, or even incompetent or lazy to more goal-driven, action-oriented types (often Te-Fi types, sometimes xSTPs, and I guess strong Js in general). ExFPs too to an extent, though chaotic, random, and fickle or whim-driven are probably more appropriate adjectives for the misunderstandings others form about them. However, xxFPs tend to be very decisive about internal things (who they are and what they value).

 

[burningranger]

We are getting close
I still want something I can tell to me 8 year old ENFP (or xxFP) kid...that I might not tell my xxXX as far as the best formula for him to be happy/play to his strengths in life. It needs to be something an 8 year old can understand. This typology business is way too up its own arse for it's own good

[MENTION=20761]Flâneuse[/MENTION] Would you say Fi is about being able to understand the individual's point of view in a deeper way? A deeper sense of empathy? To put themselves ina person's shoes? I'm curious to hear how you would contrast it with Fe's strengths.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I can be very, very uncomfortable with "just doing something" and usually feel a strong need to have a values-based basis behind my actions. Because Fi is not particularly action-oriented in itself, and instead is far more focused on creating and refining an internal framework of values, I sometimes have a hard time translating Fi values into concrete goals, and even once I’ve settled on a goal and start taking steps to get there (where Te in service of Fi comes in) I keep introspecting at every step to make sure that even my methods are in alignment with my values. The price I pay for so much deliberation is efficiency -- I obviously don’t get as much done as I would if the goals themselves were the #1 priority like is often the case for Te-Fi types. Then again, that's okay by me because efficiency isn't that high on my list of priorities - it's more important that what I do is true to myself and personally significant.

I think IxFPs (especially INFPs) can come across as lost, waffling, apathetic, or even incompetent or lazy to more goal-driven, action-oriented types (often Te-Fi types, sometimes xSTPs, and I guess strong Js in general). ExFPs too to an extent, though chaotic, random, and fickle or whim-driven are probably more appropriate adjectives for the misunderstandings others form about them. However, xxFPs tend to be very decisive about internal things (who they are and what they value).

What happens or is happening when that introspection keeps looping? Or, what I see is that decisions are made but the process is being refined internally at each step, to such an extent that Ne gives Fi so many variables (anxiety) that the user stops. To an outsider, the Fi person will say to themselves the destination is still there but let's pull over to the side of the road and read the map. Depending upon how they see that map as opposed to how they saw the trip going, it can be rather grim looking. I mean, reality is sort of grim - not ideal - sometimes. So, rationalization occurs, procrastination.

I guess I'm trying to define unhealthy and it piggybacks on what your description is. Do you find this makes sense? (I'm trying to define how I see it from an outsider) and if it does, what is the best way around that? "just do something" is my approach but that doesn't work for NFP's. What would a better more helpful mantra be?

 

[thoughtlost]

Being conscious of the types of people that emotionally drain me and are just vampires to my enthusiasm and vitality, then doing what I can to avoid those types in life is something I've learned to do over the years is a crucial part to my overall happiness. I already have my own negative feelings and doubts to contend with, I don't need others' negative feels to bring me down! Though, helping out a good friend or family member is the exception.

I agree with this. However, I have to dig into the deepest parts of someone's soul/psyche/whatever you want to call it before I can make that decision. I feel bad because I fear it makes me seem shallow (I know, people never describe the introverted functions as shallow ...except Si lol). Like, I can seem to bond so well with another person. However, over time, I feel the strong urge to pull away because I've decided that this person isn't worth my psychological energy (and it's not that they are bad people inherently, I just feel the need to not let them in)...and that person may notice and feel sad that the dynamic has changed.