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  1. #21


    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    So the dreaded INTP need for autonomy is an outgrowth of stressed-out inferior Fe?

    That would make sense. It would explain why you INTPs hate to be told or even asked to do something, but don't mind being manipulated into the same obligation. IOW, INTPs accept the concept that they have obligations to society, but they want the obligations communicated in a way that isn't going to stress them out and activate their inferior Fe.

    Hence the utility, for example, of using humor with INTPs to get them laughing and de-stress them a bit when they're getting burnt out from too much human interaction or forced extraversion.

    Is that how the INTP's "need for autonomy" works?

    Re-reading Jennifer's earlier post, I am now thinking that an INTP's need for autonomy is actually associated with distressed Ti (the dominant function) rather than inferior Fe.

    There seem to be a couple steps in engaging one's inferior function.

    a) The dominant function is overwhelmed, the auxiliary contributes to the problem by cutting off access to additional information, and there's a mounting impression of distress.

    b) Then there occurs use of the inferior function, which leads to lashing out or taking some kind of action or decision.

    For example, as an INFP I experience the following:

    a) When distressed, I turn hypersensitive and take any criticism very personally. This is traditionally associated with Inferior Fe. So perhaps my Fi gets distressed, my auxiliary Ne get paranoid, and my Fi turns into a distressed form of Fe.

    b) If a posture of defensiveness doesn't solve the problem, then I start using my Inferior Te, which is associated with being domineering and trying to impose solutions. And that's the point where I extravert and really start lashing out at others.

    By comparison, Jennifer's post says that for her as an INTP, a need for isolation (autonomy) comes first and then lashing out comes at an later step.

    So maybe INTPs experience the following:

    a) Distressed Ti would be similar to Inferior Te, which is associated with "Be overly domineering, take charge without listening to others." That impression in INTPs could be the process of tuning out others and insisting on one's autonomy.

    b) If that doesn't solve the problem, then the Inferior Fe = "Be hypersensitive; take criticism very personally." This could be the point at which the INTP extraverts and lashes out.

    Similarly, the OP talks about two separate steps in use of the inferior function for INFJs and ENTPs: some form of personal distress of the dominant function, then lashing out or making a decision with the inferior function.

    I was struck that INFP defensiveness is not properly part of the inferior function but rather a distressed form of the dominant function. So maybe INTP autonomy (in excess of normal, anyway) is also a distressed version of the dominant function rather than a part of the inferior function.

    I also note that according to this path of distressed dominant leading to inferior, INFPs and INTPs go through the same steps in reverse. INFPs get distressed by getting defensive, then extravert by getting domineering and bullying. INTPs get distressed by pushing everyone away, then extravert by feeling defensive and hounded and going on a rampage to tell everyone off.

    Just playing around with some ideas.


  2. #22
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Appears to me that desire for autonomy is a healthy attribute of a dominant Ti, which could be accomplished without an effort to isolate oneself. Yet a desire for the latter definitely is to be attributes to the malfunctioning inferior faculty of Fe rather than to a list of normal Ti tendencies.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    May 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    I think the case is that not that the secondary function is not capable of dealing with what the first presents, yet rather the secondary is under control of the first.

    The Fe, by its own right could find support on the outside for the problems of the Ni, but does not because it follows the orders of the superior function.
    Yes, that's what I was talking about, thank you

    There was so much in the rest of what you said that I'd love to respond to if/when I get the time, but the part about talking with someone whose primary is your secondary and vice versa, is inspired.
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