ESTJ battering me with words during firing

[kimela]

My firing went like this
Estj: you dont have this credential we can't have you work here
Me: but I didn't...
Estj: YOU DONT HAVE CREDENTIAL

ME: but you didn't ask...
Estj : YOU DONT HAVE CREDENTIAL
and so on. How do I keep an estj from talking over me? All I was trying to say is no one asked for it and I thought it wasn't needed. She looked furious thAt I was trying to speak at all.

Further, how do you make an estj happy WITHOUT KVELLING OR PUTTING YOURSELF IN A SERVING OR SUBORDINATE POSITION? my experience and schooling outshine hers, she is just ops

 

[Totenkindly]

Did they review your credentials when you were hired?
Or didn't the ESTJ hire you originally?

It's not exactly clear what happened.

ESTJs tend to be dominants, Type A sorts, and like to be in control of a situation. And also supporting the structure that's in place, although rational changes can be made to it.

Some of this stuff isn't about type, it's about maturity level btw.
IOW, #NotAllESTJs.
Stories about bad managers abound in life, regardless of their type.

 

[Jaguar]

You don't want my opinion, she'd yell at you even more.

 

[Agent Washington]

Clearly, murder is the only answer.

 

[HisKittyKat]

ESTJ women can scare the poop out of me. They have a very dominant personality, I can take it when they are in a good mood buttt if they are sour you don't want to challenge them.

 

[Obfuscate]

i think just walking around the room slowly while not making eye contact could work... be sure to examine things in the room and adjust their position (put photos face down, etc)... when questioned about your behavior it would be easy to explain that mutual respect and paying attention clearly weren't traits she valued, so you were waiting for her to finish... make sure to project your voice and not make eye contact while explaining to minimize interuption... looking down is a mistake. but looking above and beyond can work...

 

[Obfuscate]

ESTJ women can scare the poop out of me. They have a very dominant personality, I can take it when they are in a good mood buttt if they are sour you don't want to challenge them.

i disagree... they Beg for it!

 

[kimela]

Yeah, the ENFJ who directly hired me forgot to ask about that particular credential. ESTJ was in interview but isn't in my particular field so ENFJ made the decision.

 

[Smilephantomhive]

Yeah, the ENFJ who directly hired me forgot to ask about that particular credential. ESTJ was in interview but isn't in my particular field so ENFJ made the decision.

How do you just forget a creditencial when hiring?

 

[Littleclaypot]

ESTJ's can be pretty domineering in my experience. Do not submit. Also, sorry you got fired. That sucks, man.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

[MENTION=33668]kimela[/MENTION]
I'm sorry that happened to you. I don't have any answer except to push it out of your mind, or listen to this song I find absolutely hilarious for situations like you describe...

Devil Beneath My Feet - Marilyn Manson

 

[rav3n]

Do you reside in an at-will state? If not, get some legal counsel.

 

[kimela]

yes at will

 

[Bush]

She probably not saying "YOU DON'T HAVE CREDENTIAL AND ALSO YOU'RE AN INCOMPETENT PERSON" or anything. Just stating the fact that you don't have it. If the credential is required, and it was intended to be required, no amount of arguing will make it suddenly not a requirement. Additionally, they are likely not blaming you. So telling her you didn't know is a wasted effort, or at least unnecessary.

She's probably more angry at her team for hiring you on while overlooking that credential. If she's at all reasonable, she wouldn't blame you for getting hired on account of a thing that you didn't know.

IOW don't take it personally. Take it as literally as humanly possible, no use in reading too much into it, even at a subconscious level.

They did make a mistake, and the whole situation is on them. If they don't own up to it, if not just internally, then they might not be worth working for anyway because they would probably be terrible managers/teammates.


Now, that's just addressing the question of how to handle folks like her. More broadly: it sucks and I'm also sorry that this happened to you; it's not really fair.

And some tangential thoughts.. If you include this employer on your resume for future positions, and if an interviewer asks about it, you'd have to dress it up and/or explain that you got let go because it turned out that you didn't have a particular required credential. Hell, even they would understand that it wasn't your fault. Your position was basically annulled.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

My supervisor's supervisor is a likely ESTJ. I've seen this tendency to talk over others in her as well. I think when they feel something is settled and finalized and they've already reasoned it out, they don't always like having their reasoning questioned, as it might come across as subterfuge to them. It can be difficult as I can be quite blunt and also play devil's advocate at times, but I have learned to bite my lip and try to do a better job of reading her mood. Sometimes I find it's easier to get my thoughts and reasoning across to my bosses in a well typed email, whereas I can sometimes stumble and trip over my words if trying to speak.

 

[Poki]

My firing went like this
Estj: you dont have this credential we can't have you work here
Me: but I didn't...
Estj: YOU DONT HAVE CREDENTIAL

ME: but you didn't ask...
Estj : YOU DONT HAVE CREDENTIAL
and so on. How do I keep an estj from talking over me? All I was trying to say is no one asked for it and I thought it wasn't needed. She looked furious thAt I was trying to speak at all.

Further, how do you make an estj happy WITHOUT KVELLING OR PUTTING YOURSELF IN A SERVING OR SUBORDINATE POSITION? my experience and schooling outshine hers, she is just ops

your reasoning doesn't matter if you NEED the credential. That's what they care about, very no non-sense. Do what is required is the starting point, second is be competent. Competent means ask questions, dig, follow through. Use Te and exert yourself by acting stupid and asking 50 million questions so you can be fully competent, double check, verify.