Fe and the wall?

[Coriolis]

Oh! Can I hop on that train??

Are you sure that is a good idea?

 

[Evo]

This is just an observation I've had with three Fe doms in my sphere of acquaintances, two ENFJ and one ESFJ, but when I talk to them, I swear, what I get or feel from them is nothing of themselves, as if there is this wall up that prevents me seeing the real them. I don't believe they are Sp doms or anything as they are all very warm and welcoming, but I definitely feel this supposed barrier that no others I know seem to possess. It sometimes feels like I am talking to a wall, where my voice echoes and reverberates. What I hear back is different and not just a mirrored projection, but it's altered. This bounce-back affect is, what I believe, is the cause of me feeling like there is this wall between me and getting to know who they really are.

This is just an observation with some theorizing here, but if anyone can add to this or give their feedback, that'd be awesome. Is Fe like this? Is this a trait of Fe??

Yes, i think people that value Fe do have a wall. It's much different that Fi I think. You can get past it, but it does take some time. And often times I find that they need this wall taken down every time you interact. I'm guessing it has something to do with not wanting to give too much of yourself away at first. I don't really know though.

The way that I experience them taking down the wall seems to be some sort of series of unconscious steps. The wall is most apparent when i am meeting up with the Fe valuer after being separate for a while. It's not like Fi, where you have this deep connection and know that you know the person, and that everything is going to be ok, and you can just pick up right back where you left off. Fe valuers seem to need a build up to get to that place. If you are talking on a consistent basis, then the wall is not really apparent. If a bit of time goes by you may need to bring that wall down again with them.

From an outside perspective it looks like the Fe valuer needs to get some "momentum" going. They need that "momentum of flow in interaction." Once the "flow" in interaction stops, it doesn't seem like they access it again, until they get a flow going again. I think it's very different than Fi actually. Because I can cultivate that flow with a person without the person even being around haha. My bonds and flow with people are stable, like a cord that is always connected to them. I think Fe is more "in motion" than the Fi cord.

It's very similar to the "water" analogy that [MENTION=30122]Cat Brainz[/MENTION] has explained before. Fe gets into the "flow of the river" slowly. They probably have to "ease into the water" every time or something. I think for Fi, the flow of the water is always maintained. It doesn't go away for me. I'm acutely aware of what waves moved between me and each person. I'm guessing that Fe is paying attention to all the waves as a whole between everyone, where I'm only concerned with the waves between me and the other people i'm familiar with.

My guesses could all be bullshit though, who knows. But it fits into my analogy that I gave a couple months ago. That Fi is the bottom of the ocean, and Fe is riding the waves on top. I would never want there to be waves going on between others and myself. That would be very stressful. So maybe the "wall" is what Fe needs in order to acclimate to whatever waves are happening.

 

[Dreamer]

Are you sure that is a good idea?

I will be a great...I mean, I AM an INTJ! The best there ever lived.

 

[Dreamer]

Yes, i think people that value Fe do have a wall. It's much different that Fi I think. You can get past it, but it does take some time. And often times I find that they need this wall taken down every time you interact. I'm guessing it has something to do with not wanting to give too much of yourself away at first. I don't really know though.

The way that I experience them taking down the wall seems to be some sort of series of unconscious steps. The wall is most apparent when i am meeting up with the Fe valuer after being separate for a while. It's not like Fi, where you have this deep connection and know that you know the person, and that everything is going to be ok, and you can just pick up right back where you left off. Fe valuers seem to need a build up to get to that place. If you are talking on a consistent basis, then the wall is not really apparent. If a bit of time goes by you may need to bring that wall down again with them.

From an outside perspective it looks like the Fe valuer needs to get some "momentum" going. They need that "momentum of flow in interaction." Once the "flow" in interaction stops, it doesn't seem like they access it again, until they get a flow going again. I think it's very different than Fi actually. Because I can cultivate that flow with a person without the person even being around haha. My bonds and flow with people are stable, like a cord that is always connected to them. I think Fe is more "in motion" than the Fi cord.

It's very similar to the "water" analogy that [MENTION=30122]Cat Brainz[/MENTION] has explained before. Fe gets into the "flow of the river" slowly. They probably have to "ease into the water" every time or something. I think for Fi, the flow of the water is always maintained. It doesn't go away for me. I'm acutely aware of what waves moved between me and each person. I'm guessing that Fe is paying attention to all the waves as a whole between everyone, where I'm only concerned with the waves between me and the other people i'm familiar with.

My guesses could all be bullshit though, who knows. But it fits into my analogy that I gave a couple months ago. That Fi is the bottom of the ocean, and Fe is riding the waves on top. I would never want there to be waves going on between others and myself. That would be very stressful. So maybe the "wall" is what Fe needs in order to acclimate to whatever waves are happening.

Interesting perspective Evo, thank you for sharing

I've been busy doing my own thing at work, but the nice thing about working with these Fe doms, is I can just pick up my notebook whenever I feel like it, and observe them in action haha. I never attributed what you speak of, to Fi, but I wouldn't rule it out either. I do notice that I can literally not talk to my best friend in NY for weeks at a time, sometimes longer if we're just so wrapped up in our lives, and when we pick up the phone and chat again, it's really as if no time has passed between us. I tend to approach any friend that way really, though, with some people, I do notice I have to edge back into the flow we once shared. I don't know what types these people are, I've never thought of typing them, but it is true that some friends I know, don't require any re-introductions, while others do, and some need it more than others on varying degrees.

 

[Coriolis]

I will be a great...I mean, I AM an INTJ! The best there ever lived.

And I'm Nancy Pelosi.

 

[Dreamer]

And I'm Nancy Pelosi.

I knew it! Totally knew it. Wait...how can I know for sure? Ok, tell me this, what does she take in her coffee?

 

[Coriolis]

I knew it! Totally knew it. Wait...how can I know for sure? Ok, tell me this, what does she take in her coffee?

You lack the means of properly validating the response, so your question is pointless.

Faux INTJs in the wild are relatively easy to spot, though.

 

[Dreamer]

You lack the means of properly validating the response, so your question is pointless.

Faux INTJs in the wild are relatively easy to spot, though.

Oh what...the heck?! Brava Coriolis, Brava. Side stepping a question by invalidating the person or question presented to prevent exposing yourself for NOT being Nancy Pelosi. This is a tactic often utilized by career politicians. Therefore, you have proven yourself indeed, Nancy. Yes, I am quite aware my "argument" just did a somersault of sorts. As for spotting faux INTJs, I ensure, my dark denim trousers (could've just said jeans, but I'm an INTJ now ) and black merino wool turtleneck with silver frame glasses shall present a formidable INTJ representative...or that of an architect .

 

[Tilt]

Here is a more detailed answer. The people that I am closest to are INFP, INTJ, ENFJ, ISTJ, ISFP... So primarily Fi-users.

Compared to the IXFPs, I seem rather closed off because they just tend to say what they want to say but I seem to naturally filter my answers to come off inoffensive without realizing it. The ENFJ does the same exact thing (we are both e3s - 359 sp/sx and 379 so/sx respectively).

According to the INTJ, I hold back too much... He's much more of a open book than I am... I am more emotionally effusive by a long shot but he's quick to explain his opinions on most topics in a ridiculously factually detailed manner. I seem to keep a certain distance. Same goes for the ISTJ.

Fi feels more raw to me than my e3 Fe. To be honest, there is a neutral distance that people get from me. However, weirdly enough, I am much more likely to send "I am thinking of you" type of texts than for them to initiate. So I may have a certain wall up but ironically I am usually the one to reach out.

 

[Coriolis]

Oh what...the heck?! Brava Coriolis, Brava. Side stepping a question by invalidating the person or question presented to prevent exposing yourself for NOT being Nancy Pelosi. This is a tactic often utilized by career politicians. Therefore, you have proven yourself indeed, Nancy. Yes, I am quite aware my "argument" just did a somersault of sorts. As for spotting faux INTJs, I ensure, my dark denim trousers (could've just said jeans, but I'm an INTJ now ) and black merino wool turtleneck with silver frame glasses shall present a formidable INTJ representative...or that of an architect .

Interesting. You sidestepped the main trap, only to fall into a backup. Contingency planning FTW.

Well, since you are an architect, however you look is how an architect looks. But even an ENFP would not base an assessment on such superficialities. Sure, you may have learned how to mimic a stereotype, but as soon as you open your mouth, or indeed do anything but just sit there quietly, the truth will come out. (Plus you don't even wear glasses, do you?)

 

[Dreamer]

Interesting. You sidestepped the main trap, only to fall into a backup. Contingency planning FTW.

Well, since you are an architect, however you look is how an architect looks. But even an ENFP would not base an assessment on such superficialities. Sure, you may have learned how to mimic a stereotype, but as soon as you open your mouth, or indeed do anything but just sit there quietly, the truth will come out. (Plus you don't even wear glasses, do you?)

Part of me thinks you didn't actually have a backup plan there and are just hiding behind my own realizations. Had I not made mention of my argumentative acrobatics, would you have made such a comment? Are you sure you haven't just been trolled ENFP style?
To answer your question on whether I wear glasses or not, I do! My vision is - 4, - 4.25, so I definitely need them. I wear contacts mostly though. Next time I post a photo up or make a video, I may wear them for you, if I remember...

 

[Coriolis]

Part of me thinks you didn't actually have a backup plan there and are just hiding behind my own realizations. Had I not made mention of my argumentative acrobatics, would you have made such a comment? Are you sure you haven't just been trolled ENFP style?
To answer your question on whether I wear glasses or not, I do! My vision is - 4, - 4.25, so I definitely need them. I wear contacts mostly though. Next time I post a photo up or make a video, I may wear them for you, if I remember...

Yes indeed, in this context, as an illustration of (stereo)type distinctions. Besides, I thought you knew me better than that by now. There are always contingencies, multiple layers, frames of reference. If one doesn't do the job, the next will. It never pays to put all the eggs into one basket.

I wondered, too, about contacts as all I can say with certainty is that I have never seen glasses on you in any photo or video you have posted. (Which means that, strictly speaking, you require vision correction though you don't usually wear glasses.) I have never been able to get used to contacts, and thus wear glasses all the time, in fact very close to what you describe.