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Fi-Ni and Ni-Fi loops

Metis

New member
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
2,534
This. I find it interesting how the Grant/Beebe stack has taken such a stronghold in the typology community, and alternative stacks like Jung's proto-model are ignored. It's especially interesting how the idea of loops has caught on like wildfire despite originating in a post by some PerC user instead of any statements or writings by professional psychologists who are involved in typology. It really shows how fandom-run this whole thing is.


The idea of loops is a good idea. I don't put much stock in the conjectures of professional psychologists on account of their credentials, because those credentials don't imply insight or wisdom. Some psychologists have great ideas, and some, lousy.

That's a good point about other stack models.
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
This. I find it interesting how the Grant/Beebe stack has taken such a stronghold in the typology community, and alternative stacks like Jung's proto-model are ignored. It's especially interesting how the idea of loops has caught on like wildfire despite originating in a post by some PerC user instead of any statements or writings by professional psychologists who are involved in typology. It really shows how fandom-run this whole thing is.


Yes, I knew that person quite well. He was a member here for years and the 'loop' nonsense was merely a bunch of bullshit he made up.
 

The Cat

Just a Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads
Staff member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
23,553
Fandoms are fun, and even if they weren't, they're very in at the moment.
 

Asearchingsoul

New member
Joined
Oct 8, 2020
Messages
1
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
9w1
I have experienced something similar, but there is an aspect to it that doesn't relate to immaturity. As a middle-aged person with a lot of life experience, I have experienced negative emotional loops. Ni sees patterns that reduce down to singularities and Fi experiences a sense of values relating to these patterns. When I am stuck in a negative emotional/social loop it is because the external pattern feels so absolute and overwhelming. The sense is that people will always fall into this behavior, and I feel trapped. This is especially difficult when there doesn't seem to be an answer for correcting the problem externally. It makes it possible to become very depressed about the nature of reality and the hurtful patterns that are so entrenched in humanity.

I had to develop a cognitive technique to help break the cycle. I will deliberately meditate on random associations in my mind to try to breakup the deeply entrenched neuro-pathways. I'll think of the most random series of concepts I can like: "pencil, rowboat, page 47, nebula, horse saddle, Capricorn, statistics, etc." It is difficult to make the transition, but this technique has helped me when I felt like I couldn't break out of it.

The reasoning that I use when getting stuck in a loop long after the outside people have forgotten an incident is this: if those people were capable of that hurtful behavior in that instance in the past, then it is part of who they are. They will do it again. Even if they forget about it, the nature of that behavior persists, and has in no way ended. If I couldn't figure out how to deal with it internally or externally in that past moment, then I'm doomed to be hurt again. In this way I obsess on it until I can find a solution, but in dealing with people there are often no solutions because the nature of people is such that they are going to behave a certain way, so I have to develop the skill to respond with apathy, to avoid them, or develop an assertive tactic that puts a stop to it. Those are the options, and sometimes they can all feel out of reach if the emotional impact is painful enough.

That was really well put. I think I belong to the loops a lot too. But many times I can say in my experience , it has been my Fi is looking to Ni for more patterns and meanings. or at times it seems like I don't know specifically what im longing for and Ni-Te is channeled quite obsessively into a topic or subject to fix an emotional issue or to create something to preserve a standard. Or Ni is seemingly able to understand the Fi isn't everything and realizes that focusing on one topic isn't productive and seeks to self change and pursue new ways of patterns to avoid feeling trapped. Maybe this is the result of being stuck in the loop, but i seem to be aware of its workings at least. I think at my core i am Fi dominate but many times it values Ni equally. like a value placed on seeing more patterns or else i am missing out on this world, and self realizing my interpretation is limited so i feel trapped and depressed. Its like Fi wants the ultimate dream come true to experience, so looks to Ni to envision that into reality, but also attempting to discern what is able to be turned objectively and new ways to go about it. Ive spent much time in the loop and have been quite at times obsessed with trying to understand it workings. it has turned into pretty much focusing on introverted intuition. though I think experiencing the loop can help you gain access to greater growth, it needs to be watched because your mind and body need rest. . I also realized how less time i spend from my Se it was like i experienced depression, maybe because of the Ne block, Ni is only fed information from what has been experienced and what it dreams to feel. I think Te is a good shadow to work on. After all it seems our divide is on what we want and the real life objective decisions needed to carry that out that decision.
 
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