[Te] Why people don't like to talk about Te ?

[Poki]

I wondered where the gun reference came from but Poki wasn't talking about guns. "Shootin the shit" is just sitting around and hanging out with people and talking (shooting) about whatever (the shit). Sometimes I forget that not every American figure of speech is translatable or even understandable by everyone so, I tend to explain where I think it's needed.

Thanks, i was stumped on that one. I know virtual is not from US, but i forget about the "sayings". I swear its an ETJ thing to come up with sayings like that, they always crack me up. We got alot of those in Texas.

 

[Virtual ghost]

That last sentence i wrote makes me curious about the love/hate dynamics between Te and Fi I see, especially in inferior Te types.

Just as all inferior functions Fi in dom Te is inferior function and at odds with dominant function. Back in a day I had pleny of "why people hate my cold ass" type of threads, since I almost completely detached from Fi, due to bad life experiances. Therefore to be honest I am not sure that inferior Fi is fully natural configuration and the odds are that this configuration is result of some kind of stress. Te doms tend to be 1s,3s,6s and 8s and all those ennegram types have a problem with being vulnerable (Fi). However if enough damage is done Fi can justify just about everything and this is how you get stereotypical movie villains that people love to hate.

Te information searching would be something good to get into. I think its a VERY wide range of possible actions based on lessons learned. Not sure if this is right thread or if its to much experience based for a cognition thread and off topic.

Te searching of information is basically very simple:


1. You ask a question because you are searching for an answer. Search engines did change this factor but search engine will not tell you where you left your keys.
2. You ask a question because you want to know if a person knows the answer, what can be important in order to figure out how the person thinks and what it knows.
3. You can ask a question because you half forgot the answer and you know this is too important to take any risks with having incomplete data.
4. Once everything is done you can ask others "Are you sure this is it?" before you click press submit/send button. (often some detail comes up)
5. You say "go there and observe, once something starts to happen let me know". What allows quick group reaction to the problem.
6. You can ask others questions about something strange that happen. Since that is perhaps only way to figure out what happened. (especially if you weren't there)


However all of that requires some degree of being "anal" and "nosey".
This is starting level that everbody does, however developed Te allows more complex methodology such as contigency planning. What means that you sit with everyone else at the start and look what is realistic to happen. Therefore you make a plan on the basis of: if A happens we go for a option 1 if B happens we go for option w, if neither happens here and here we must have reserves to compensate. However if B happens then 7 days after that there will 8 hour hole open that we may get some benefits as if A happened ..... and so you make entire web on this way. However you can't do this without constant searching for external data that would make your plan legit and possible. This is too much for everyday but if you lead a country or a large company this is "must have" since the systems are too big and too inert that you can just change your mind or improvise. World today is what it is exacly because there was to much of back and forth while complex technical systems and infrastructure don't respond too well to that.



I was ALWAYS the one who was doing the group coordination during the group assignments in college and that was not purely my doing since people actually wanted me to do that, I presume that is because this made them feel safe.

If you take the responsibilty for running a project others can be more focused on the task at hand and quality of the work. So people only really have to talk to you instead of everybody at the same time, what reduces noise and waste of time. For this you need really qualified person at the top but this can work very well if implemented the right way. They were all creating the info and I was sticking that info into the final project and I checked from time to time that everyone is on time. Plus I gave suggestions, in order to get a better fitting piece. Or I said to everyone that we need a group meeting because we need to agree on the further strategy and show/discuss what was done so far. Therefore out work was always one of better ones or the best one. Since we had structure and people didn't talk that much to each other over every detail ... what creates plenty of noise and stress since no one in the team knows everything what others are doing. So it is hard to guide such a project since there is no clarity, which is the foundation of doing a qood job. However clarity is very hard to achive if you don't observe and ask question about what you see. Good strategy is 3/4 data gathering and evaluation and only 1/4 is actual decision making. (if this isn't the case we are talking about tactics)

 

[evilrubberduckie]

I LOVE TJ'S they keep me grounded and smack me on the upside of the head when im thinking too hard on everything rather then where to eat.

 

[OrangeAppled]

It is one of the least elusive functions. Kinda similar to how people will discuss the female orgasm at length but have less to say about the male orgasm.

Not to say Te discussion is not worthwhile...

 

[Ursa]

What does Te do in uncapitalistic environemnts ?

It organizes, categorizes, marshals resources and is basically just pragmatic. Maybe something needs to get done around the house or in your community. Te helps you determine what needs to get done - and then doesn't have any problem assigning people tasks so as to ensure the objective does get done. Te helps the user follow through as well. It drives for closure and sees to it that tasks and discussions are completed - or at least serve their purposes.

As a communicative tool, it's very straightforward too. It's useful when "something just needs to be said," or when giving directions or instructions.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

My understanding is that Te can also be very intellectual, but works better within the established systems than Ti does. Engineering is one areas that can express Te brilliance because the applications into reality are clear and pragmatic, but it also shows the inventive side of the function. Other types also work as engineers, but there is a place to associate Te with it as well.

 

[Virtual ghost]

It is one of the least elusive functions. Kinda similar to how people will discuss the female orgasm at length but have less to say about the male orgasm.

Not to say Te discussion is not worthwhile...

I am not sure that I agree with this. Verbal manifestations of Te are generally very clear but on the inside this functions mixes with introverted functions and Se/Ne input, creating relatively complex dynamic that no one really cares about. This is exactly why I opened this thread. (and some others)

Examples:
Do I listen to my Fi even if it is impractical at the moment ?
Why is everyone so defensive about what I say ?
How do I determine my priorities and therefore efficiency standards ?
Ehh ... the idiot is going to screw it up and again. Will I have to spend an entire week to get things back in order ?
He/She is wrong because of A,B.D and G but if I point it out will that be shooting myself in my foot ?
etc.


Te doms are "robots" only on the outside.
As I said I am not sure there is a Te dom that doesn't suffer from at least some sense of profound rejection. Since everybody judge only exterior and Fi is too deep down to show itself.

It organizes, categorizes, marshals resources and is basically just pragmatic. Maybe something needs to get done around the house or in your community. Te helps you determine what needs to get done - and then doesn't have any problem assigning people tasks so as to ensure the objective does get done. Te helps the user follow through as well. It drives for closure and sees to it that tasks and discussions are completed - or at least serve their purposes.

As a communicative tool, it's very straightforward too. It's useful when "something just needs to be said," or when giving directions or instructions.

I was simply curious what will people say to this question, since I wasn't born in Captalism.

My understanding is that Te can also be very intellectual, but works better within the established systems than Ti does. Engineering is one areas that can express Te brilliance because the applications into reality are clear and pragmatic, but it also shows the inventive side of the function. Other types also work as engineers, but there is a place to associate Te with it as well.

As person with "Technical expert" tritype that has done exactly that his whole life I agree.

 

[neuskens]

What is a Te approach or model one could use to open a company?

Do you like diagrams and lists? How do you organize your stuff? What do you do when you're categorizing but something does not fit any category or fits more than one?

Describe in sequential steps your approach to organize steps sequentially.

 

[Virtual ghost]

What is a Te approach or model one could use to open a company?

I am from ex communist country that never had standard capitalist economy. Therefore I am not sure what to tell you regarding this.

Do you like diagrams and lists?

I like diagrams but if my gut feeling tells me not to trust the source then they can say in them whatever they want, since I wouldn't care.

I also tend to like lists if you are talking about "to do" lists or lists of equipment. They are very good at provding general sense where are you and prevent forgeting the details.

How do you organize your stuff? What do you do when you're categorizing but something does not fit any category or fits more than one?

I organize my stuff on various ways, but basically I keep only stuff for which I am sure that I will need again or if they have very large sentimantal value (like old toy), generally my living space is pretty clean.

I don't value categorisations all that much, I rate things by usefulness, impact and geographic location (and ability to be moved). However if it doesn't fit anywhere nicely I can place it in multiple categories, open a new category or simply ignore it if my gut feeling tells me that this is irrelevant element to my goals.

Describe in sequential steps your approach to organize steps sequentially.

I don't relate to this question. I look how people and object are scattered though space and how best to put them to good use. Unless I have totally trivial problem I make contigency plans that are unlinear and dependant on exact situation in the field. If I sense that "standard" leads me no where I make my own "template". It all depends on what I have on the field and what I want to do with all of that.

 

[neuskens]

I am from ex communist country that never had standard capitalist economy. Therefore I am not sure what to tell you regarding this.




I like diagrams but if my gut feeling tells me not to trust the source then they can say in them whatever they want, since I wouldn't care.

I also tend to like lists if you are talking about "to do" lists or lists of equipment. They are very good at provding general sense where are you and prevent forgeting the details.





I organize my stuff on various ways, but basically I keep only stuff for which I am sure that I will need again or if they have very large sentimantal value (like old toy), generally my living space is pretty clean.

I don't value categorisations all that much, I rate things by usefulness, impact and geographic location (and ability to be moved). However if it doesn't fit anywhere nicely I can place it in multiple categories, open a new category or simply ignore it if my gut feeling tells me that this is irrelevant element to my goals.





I don't relate to this question. I look how people and object are scattered though space and how best to put them to good use. Unless I have totally trivial problem I make contigency plans that are unlinear and dependant on exact situation in the field. If I sense that "standard" leads me no where I make my own "template". It all depends on what I have on the field and what I want to do with all of that.

Logistically speaking, what do you mean by that?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Logistically speaking, what do you mean by that?

Isn't it obvious ?
It simply means that my goals is to make concrete progress and make sure that system works properly toward my worldviews/logic. If categorisations helps me that is great but if they don't I don't care. Since I don't think too much in the terms of definitions. (Ti-Si loop)


Take a look at this, both maps are technically equally correct but for some reason one is considered more correct than the other. What I see as running away from reality and often I am considered to be evil/arrogant if I point out stuff like this.

However only once you completely change your perspective you will start to see relativity of reality and that definitions are just that: definitions. In other words they don't exist in reality, but only in your head.
What is why I don't bother with definitions and categorization that much since to me this is all relative. To me the features on those maps are more interesting regardless of how you turn them. What is judgement by impact. Since relation between geographic features is the real and objective data in this case/example, everything else is just convention and sugarcoating. However since I always want to know "bottom line of impications" first I ignore the convention in order to make things useful/right as quckly as possble. Or I turn everything upside down to see important details more clearly, what helps in the terms of efficiency. I start from the goal and defining it and then I work towards it, therefore I don't wander too much if at all.


As I was growing up I had above average concentration of xNxPs around me and I was confusing them all the time (to the point of stopping being talkative around them because of this). They turn almost everything into abstract playground that may not reflect reality and for me that is a problem since I see implications and deadlines more clearer then they do. I usually start my reasoning from situation on the field and if I see that information which I have is insuficient then I start diging for more. Once I have that I start building the system that will strench months, years or decades into the future.


What is the main difference between NTP and NTJ logic is the focus on "time component" since NTP logic is focused on ultimate truths and their classification. This has its advantages and strenghts but it often requires translator/adapter when it comes to practical everyday stuff that are time/space based ... and often that translator will be NTJ logic. Which will make something concrete/useful out of all that Ti data.



(this is very Ni/Se biased answer)

 

[Virtual ghost]

I am really curious about this:

Am I the only TJ here that was rised in a way that Te is wrong as "approach to life ?"

 

[Abendrot]

I am really curious about this:

Am I the only TJ here that was rised in a way that Te is wrong as "approach to life ?"

Nope. My parents had contempt for scientific (Te) and reductionistic paradigmatic (Ni) thinking.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I can merge the threads if the OP wishes.

Since the other one got resurrected you can marge them if you want. It really is stupid to have basically 2 identical active threads.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I wish I could use more Te and just state the facts. It can often come across as a strong function that provides clarity and stability among people. I recently had an experience socially that made me so frustrated with myself for not demonstrating a bit more Te. It's put me in mind of the function and considering that I should see if I can access more in myself and just say whatever should be said in any scenario.

To do this you just have to go with "W" questions. Like: Who, Where, When, Why, What ....

Since such questions are foundation of Te logic. On the other hand they are generally polite question, so people can take them if you are not too forceful. Even if you know everything sometimes it is wise to make your opening line a question. Since with this you loose rigid vibe and people are less defensive around you.

 

[neuskens]

Isn't it obvious ?
It simply means that my goals is to make concrete progress and make sure that system works properly toward my worldviews/logic. If categorisations helps me that is great but if they don't I don't care. Since I don't think too much in the terms of definitions. (Ti-Si loop)

I get it now; categorization isn't a >necessary< step to the goal. I asked cause I get a tad uneasy when something doesn't fit something, so I label it as misc but then later I have a box of misc stuff that could create new categories but some of it would still be misc !!!! and I thought some Te logic would help me on that.

What is the main difference between NTP and NTJ logic is the focus on "time component" since NTP logic is focused on ultimate truths and their classification. This has its advantages and strenghts but it often requires translator/adapter when it comes to practical everyday stuff that are time/space based ... and often that translator will be NTJ logic. Which will make something concrete/useful out of all that Ti data.



(this is very Ni/Se biased answer)

I like what you said here. Sometimes it is frustrating to have some sort of knowledge but not being able to apply it (or even see it) in the sensory world to improve life for humans. I don't know about you NTJs, but I as a NTP feel such delight talking to you. You give form and solidity to the pathways of my seemingly disconnected ideas and filter my illusions into a beautiful, POSSIBLE reality. ^-^

Thank God for such complementation between humans.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I get it now; categorization isn't a >necessary< step to the goal. I asked cause I get a tad uneasy when something doesn't fit something, so I label it as misc but then later I have a box of misc stuff that could create new categories but some of it would still be misc !!!! and I thought some Te logic would help me on that.

This is a little bit out of the box logic but for me it is always true.
Why people do categorisations ? They do them to gain clarity over the situation. However if categorisation doesn't provide relevant data/effect for what we need to do then categorisation basically just wastes out time. (and in the worst case scenario it is manifestation of OCD) Trully good organizer knows when you should be thorough and when your interference should be minimal.

I like what you said here. Sometimes it is frustrating to have some sort of knowledge but not being able to apply it (or even see it) in the sensory world to improve life for humans. I don't know about you NTJs, but I as a NTP feel such delight talking to you. You give form and solidity to the pathways of my seemingly disconnected ideas and filter my illusions into a beautiful, POSSIBLE reality. ^-^

Thank God for such complementation between humans.

Ehhh ... you are welcome.