[MBTI General] Why are ISFP's so critical?

[Hetaira]

I am an INFP and my best friend is an ISFP. We are both in our early 50's.

Both of us love to laugh and have a great time together.

Recently, we had a serious conversation, and I went away with my feelings crushed.

I have two facial scars that 90% of people say they never notice. However, my ISFP friend was telling me she HAS to date an attractive man even if his character is not the best. I asked her when she looked at me did she notice my facial scars or just see me? I was hoping she would see the heart of a person as more important than the shell.

She replied, "Every time I look at your face I see your facial scars. I am so sorry they have affected your beauty." WTH???? Damn Se!

I am no model, but how could she be so cruel?

She judges everyone by their status, their appearances, their possessions, etc.

I am beginning to feel our friendship has come to an end. She appears to me now to be the most vain, shallow, pitiful woman I have ever met in real life.

 

[Mal12345]

Where did you get ISFP from?

 

[Galena]

It sounds like the friend is simply terrified of physical and social loss, and is taking it out on others in a hurtful way. While looks and status do have a lot of power in our society, it's not to the extreme she is expressing - this is more about her personal fears.

 

[1487610420]

I am an INFP and my best friend is an ISFP. We are both in our early 50's.

Both of us love to laugh and have a great time together.

Recently, we had a serious conversation, and I went away with my feelings crushed.

I have two facial scars that 90% of people say they never notice. However, my ISFP friend was telling me she HAS to date an attractive man even if his character is not the best. I asked her when she looked at me did she notice my facial scars or just see me? I was hoping she would see the heart of a person as more important than the shell.

She replied, "Every time I look at your face I see your facial scars. I am so sorry they have affected your beauty." WTH???? Damn Se!

I am no model, but how could she be so cruel?

She judges everyone by their status, their appearances, their possessions, etc.

I am beginning to feel our friendship has come to an end. She appears to me now to be the most vain, shallow, pitiful woman I have ever met in real life.

I understand your wording is personal to your experience; I do wonder what your friend's reasoning is, it;s too easy to project.

 

[Hiraeth]

This outlook on life is not type related. Maybe her penchant for details is stronger than others, but only judging someone surface level and not in part to their character is simply just shallowness. Maybe you should talk to her and see why she feels the way she does. Not sure how long you've been friends, but you've just now noticed what her true personality is really like?

 

[Mal12345]

This outlook on life is not type related. Maybe her penchant for details is stronger than others, but only judging someone surface level and not in part to their character is simply just shallowness. Maybe you should talk to her and see why she feels the way she does. Not sure how long you've been friends, but you've just now noticed what her true personality is really like?

DAMMIT, why can't there be a "love" function on these posts?

 

[Mal12345]

Why do INFPs use typology to intellectually distance themselves from their feelings?

 

[Hetaira]

Where did you get ISFP from?

She and I are both from a very small town (under 10,000 people), both divorced and about the same age. My aunt introduced us about 2 years ago.

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Why do INFPs use typology to intellectually distance themselves from their feelings?

I was hurt, crushed, and felt judged superficially. That intellectual enough?

 

[Hetaira]

I understand your wording is personal to your experience; I do wonder what your friend's reasoning is, it;s too easy to project.

She was pretty honest. She said it is hard for her to love a man if he is not attractive.

This is complete jibberish to me. What happens when he is 96? Still be a hottie?

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This outlook on life is not type related. Maybe her penchant for details is stronger than others, but only judging someone surface level and not in part to their character is simply just shallowness. Maybe you should talk to her and see why she feels the way she does. Not sure how long you've been friends, but you've just now noticed what her true personality is really like?

Thinking you may be quite right.

 

[1487610420]

She was pretty honest. She said it is hard for her to love a man if he is not attractive.

This is complete jibberish to me. What happens when he is 96? Still be a hottie?

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Thinking you may be quite right.

why divorce?

 

[ceecee]

I am an INFP and my best friend is an ISFP. We are both in our early 50's.

Both of us love to laugh and have a great time together.

Recently, we had a serious conversation, and I went away with my feelings crushed.

I have two facial scars that 90% of people say they never notice. However, my ISFP friend was telling me she HAS to date an attractive man even if his character is not the best. I asked her when she looked at me did she notice my facial scars or just see me? I was hoping she would see the heart of a person as more important than the shell.

She replied, "Every time I look at your face I see your facial scars. I am so sorry they have affected your beauty." WTH???? Damn Se!

I am no model, but how could she be so cruel?

She judges everyone by their status, their appearances, their possessions, etc.

I am beginning to feel our friendship has come to an end. She appears to me now to be the most vain, shallow, pitiful woman I have ever met in real life.

Here is what you say..

You judge everyone by their status, their appearances, their possessions, etc. You are the most vain, shallow, pitiful woman I have ever met in real life. Then tell her exactly why. The identical things you told us. Then you end it. You don't leave her wondering why. Don't ever leave people wondering why.

I doubt you will do this, anytime threads like this are created, they are never with the intent of actually taking action. They are with the intent of venting. But you asked and I answered.

 

[Hetaira]

Here is what you say..

You judge everyone by their status, their appearances, their possessions, etc. You are the most vain, shallow, pitiful woman I have ever met in real life. Then tell her exactly why. The identical things you told us. Then you end it. You don't leave her wondering why. Don't ever leave people wondering why.

I doubt you will do this, anytime threads like this are created, they are never with the intent of actually taking action. They are with the intent of venting. But you asked and I answered.

No. As an INFP, once you have violated our values, you will very rarely if ever be "back" in our inner circle again.

I plan to tell her. She has sensed my retreat and has poured on the "Good morning, beautiful friend, etc." bullshit.

When she asks why I have retreated, I will tell her exactly what I wrote. I will hate to lose her friendship, but not sure if I had a real friendship in the first place.

Furthermore, she is one of those people who can only take "one" best friend at a time. She has started hanging around another ISFP who "meets" her appearance standards. I have numerous best friends, but she was the first "S" friend I have ever have or will have that I allow myself to get close to.

In my own experience, I do much better with "N's" in life, marriage, friendship, etc.

We just don't give a rat's ass about the superficial crap.

 

[Virtual ghost]

In my own experience, I do much better with "N's" in life, marriage, friendship, etc.

We just don't give a rat's ass about the superficial crap.

I think you give Ns too much credit. This isn't a black-white issue.

 

[highlander]

No. As an INFP, once you have violated our values, you will very rarely if ever be "back" in our inner circle again.

I plan to tell her. She has sensed my retreat and has poured on the "Good morning, beautiful friend, etc." bullshit.

When she asks why I have retreated, I will tell her exactly what I wrote. I will hate to lose her friendship, but not sure if I had a real friendship in the first place.

Furthermore, she is one of those people who can only take "one" best friend at a time. She has started hanging around another ISFP who "meets" her appearance standards. I have numerous best friends, but she was the first "S" friend I have ever have or will have that I allow myself to get close to.

In my own experience, I do much better with "N's" in life, marriage, friendship, etc.

We just don't give a rat's ass about the superficial crap.

She was honest with you in saying she noticed them. Based on what you said, she didn't say it made you unattractive. You could look at if from the perspective that she referred to your beauty - which to me would imply that you are attractive and she was acknowledging that. It's just that from her standpoint, she does notice it. Why is that a violation of your values? Would you have rather heard a white lie? I say this as someone who has a couple of scars on my face - which were more noticeable when I was younger but not so much anymore.

I'd like to be more encouraging but it seems like you might be over-reacting a bit. It seems like maybe you are self conscious about this. As someone who has been through the same, I can understand why. I wouldn't make her out to be the devil though.

 

[Norrsken]

Why are ISFP's so critical?

Polite answer: Inferior Te.
Brutal answer: She's a bitch.

 

[Forever]

Polite answer: Inferior Te.
Brutal answer: She's a bitch.

No and No.

OP is at fault. This isn't a type related issue at all.

OP asks, OP gets an honest answer.

OP takes offense because her conception of beauty isn't satisfied. OP may think outer beauty isn't important when actually she knows it is deep down inside her and isn't aware of it, otherwise OP wouldn't be offended.

OP is in the wrong, imo. She has a great friend. May said a sentence too much, but honestly if that's it. She has to cool her sensitivity and be more objective. They're 50 for God's sakes. Not 2 20 year old models waiting for their next audition?

Idk if I was OP me and my friend would have a hearty laugh.

 

[Norrsken]

No and No.

OP is at fault. This isn't a type related issue at all.

OP asks, OP gets an honest answer.

OP takes offense because her conception of beauty isn't satisfied. OP may think outer beauty isn't important when actually she knows it is deep down inside her and isn't aware of it, otherwise OP wouldn't be offended.

OP is in the wrong, imo. She has a great friend. May said a sentence too much, but honestly if that's it. She has to cool her sensitivity and be more objective. They're 50 for God's sakes. Not 2 20 year old models waiting for their next audition?

Idk if I was OP me and my friend would have a hearty laugh.

Wait, did I dun goof'd again? ISFPs have inferior Te, right?
It is true that honesty is best policy for intimate relationships both of the romantic and platonic persuasion, but the fact that the ISFP said, "I'm sorry it caused an unfortunate effect on your beauty." seemed way harsh. She could have just said, "Yes, I can see your scars, but so what?" and leave it at that.

Truth be told, beauty is very important for most, if not all, women, to varying different degrees and opinions on what it means to look attractive.
Then again, I can see how OP should ask herself her own intentions as to why she felt the need to ask such a question to her ISFP friend in the first place.

[MENTION=26035]Hetaira[/MENTION]? Why did you asked your friend that?

 

[Forever]

Wait, did I dun goof'd again? ISFPs have inferior Te, right?
It is true that honesty is best policy for intimate relationships both of the romantic and platonic persuasion, but the fact that the ISFP said, "I'm sorry it caused an unfortunate effect on your beauty." seemed way harsh. She could have just said, "Yes, I can see your scars, but so what?" and leave it at that.

Truth be told, beauty is very important for most, if not all, women, to varying different degrees and opinions on what it means to look attractive.
Then again, I can see how OP should ask herself her own intentions as to why she felt the need to ask such a question to her ISFP friend in the first place.

[MENTION=26035]Hetaira[/MENTION]? Why did you asked your friend that?

Yes.

Well the fact they're best friends shouldn't made a difference. They're not best friends if they're not honest with each other. Not everyone has a perfect line to say in their head and just choose to be a jerk. When I say unintentionally offensive things. I do not have the choice in my mind to say the best thing possible. My goals and intentions are set to have the other person grow but I don't choose to make them feel bad if that makes sense?

I would not terminate a best friend based on this one instant lol. I'd say she should move on and talk it out. They're best friends right? Shouldn't be awkward. If it is, OP is overdramaticizing.

 

[Norrsken]

Yes.

Well the fact they're best friends shouldn't made a difference. They're not best friends if they're not honest with each other.

Do you believe that there is a difference between plain honesty and brutal honesty? I read somewhere that honesty is about helping the other person, but brutal honesty is more focused on being brutal more so than being honest.

Not everyone has a perfect line to say in their head and just choose to be a jerk. When I say unintentionally offensive things. I do not have the choice in my mind to say the best thing possible. My goals and intentions are set to have the other person grow but I don't choose to make them feel bad if that makes sense?

Fair enough and it is a common issue with a lot of people. I have hurt people unintentionally before and have been casted aside as a social witch afterwards, so I do know how it is with keeping the tipping scale in balance with authencity and yet being careful with some people's sensitivities. Dale Carnegie strongly believes that every single person on Earth are deeply sensitive, even if some succeed in hiding this soft part well. Once I learned this, I had to sometimes step back in certain social situations and just tell myself that, sometimes, it's better to just listen to the other person and say nothing at all.

I would not terminate a best friend based on this one instant lol. I'd say she should move on and talk it out. They're best friends right? Shouldn't be awkward. If it is, OP is overdramaticizing.

I wouldn't, either. But this quote that OP wrote here:

I have two facial scars that 90% of people say they never notice. However, my ISFP friend was telling me she HAS to date an attractive man even if his character is not the best. I asked her when she looked at me did she notice my facial scars or just see me? I was hoping she would see the heart of a person as more important than the shell.

She replied, "Every time I look at your face I see your facial scars. I am so sorry they have affected your beauty."

The bold words didn't need to be said, tbh. She basically told OP to her face that she is no longer regarded as attractive, and while OP, an INFP, who lives and breathes values, shouldn't have been offended if looks didn't matter (her words, not mine.), you have to at least see it from another angle: This is a woman who probably thought that the media may be right, that looks DO matter, and if you have scars and other imperfections, that you were damaged goods. Nobody wants to be seen that way. Let's take the beauty part away here. I think OP is offended because she is seen as less than, and nobody likes that.

I see where you are going with this. I still think ISFP friend needs to at least learn to construct her honesty and criticisms in a way that informs and frees other people from harmful delusions rather than make them feel worse about themselves. It is definitely possible.

 

[OrangeAppled]

How, as a Fi type yourself, do you not know that Fi types often stick their foot in their mouths even when they have excellent intentions?
Her wording was not so great....but come on, put your vanity aside and acknowledge her intent was not to be hurtful.

I agree that this shallowness is not about type (most ISFPs I know have a lot of depth ), but her bumbling communication is probably an ISFP thing.

Although she still sees your scars and considers it a negative from an aesthetic standpoint, obviously her value of you as a friend has trumped that, demonstrating that she does value who someone is in addition to appearances. She is just telling you that she does see the physical very clearly and cannot totally ignore it, much as N types may get "vibes" that trump the physical experience and we cannot easily ignore it. How that affects her romantic options is her problem anyway.

You're upset because she didn't meet hidden expectations you had which you didn't communicate. That's always a set-up for misunderstanding in relationships. The question you asked is quite a trap for people.

You are projecting your needs too....you need someone who overlooks the physical for a romantic relationship, but she cannot offer that to someone. Are you worried that many others think as she does? But you are not in a romance with her, so why give her opinion more value than it warrants? Sure, she represents a certain group of people, but obviously not everyone is that way.

As she experiences people in a very physical way & highly values aesthetics, then of course she will relate better to people who experience things similarly. I doubt she has "dumped" you as a friend over your looks. It's likely she is gravitating towards someone more like-minded, and who, frankly, is not internally criticizing her as "shallow".

I recognize this is probably just the straw that broke the camel's back, because that is how things tend to work for INFPs. I had a shallow ESFP friend from college that I intentionally grew apart from. Personally, I don't see a need for confrontation and schooling such people, because that tends to simply make them mad and almost reinforces their attitude.