Ne vs. Ni Imagination

[geedoenfj]

I was a very imaginative child. I was constantly acting out stories, talking with imaginary friends, playing all sorts of make believe games, and imagining seeing things in front of me that weren't actually there. I do that significantly less as I am older (as nearly everyone does), but it's still a part of me. Sometimes I'll just imagine fantasy scenarios and worlds because it's fun, other times it's to de-stress.
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I relate to what you're describing, I used to talk to my Barbie thinking that she understands what I'm saying, and was pissed off at my friend when she told me it's only a piece of plastic, also when I read a story or see a movie or listen to a song then those images and feelings starts coming to my head, I imitate what I watched, talk to characters, I used to repeat the movie that I like (usually Disney movies) like 100 times and watch all the little details that forms that story or give the characters their uniqueness, imagining myself in that world..
I was also so curious, imagining all vague and unrevealed things to be magical and will blow my mind once I discover them, I used break my toys to see how they're working and what is inside them, but then I am disappointed because nothing magical happened, and I end up with broken toys I used to make a lot of handi-crafts, I LOVE watching people do DIYs then try to do it myself, or just kind of be a reference to me in future experiences, I'm still fascinated on how to to see things from different perspectives and make them function in unusual ways, I used to design clothes and shoes (specially shoes) and draw a lot of paintings.
In school they used to call me "The Artist" and sometimes "Picasso" but I think these skills are diminishing over the years, even though I still creative and artistic..

I was actually doing this yesterday. Years back I saw a dramaticized comic of a man going through college, as if it were a lord of the rings or D&D esque journey. Fighting monsters that were the personifcation of calculus, biology, exams, etc. It was a cool concept. I recently completed a bit report that summarized my work over the past year (I'm in grad school), and as I was walking to downtown, I was imagining myself in that sort of fantasy setting. I saw the PhD "world" as being farther up in space, out in the distance from the undergrad worlds. I was in a dungeon fighting of a monster that just wouldn't die. For years fighting it and it would keep getting back up. I saw myself as battle-scarred and emotionally broken. My adviser then warped in as a hologram like wizard and helped me get back up and would say to me "look how far you came. Look in the mirror at yourself, you're strong, you have come so far, you have all the abilities, you know what you have to do. Keep going, you will defeat this". It was very satisfying to dive into that for a while, and while I was in it, I had no visual memory of where I was walking around outside because I was so in my head.

That's a pretty good illustration of how my imagination works. It was much more detailed in my head, and I could write it out but the post would get too big. Since I am an Fe user, there is usually a lot of emotion, feeling, and passion behind the things I imagine. They are seldom unfeeling. I like to think of it as "fantasy rooted in reality". Often, it will surround my real life events in some personified manner. Othertimes, there's no connection and I just create a world. I have been taking advantage of this world creating as I have been working on the D&D campaign I am going to be running for my friends in a week or so. I've written around 300 pages of material describing the world. In many ways, it's an escape. Reality is honestly pretty boring to me, and I wish the world was much more fantastic and grand. It's a reason why I explore psychedelic drugs.

Aww I really like the PhD part!! And 300 pages WOW what imagination you have !!
I sometimes have this fantasy whenever I feel like I'm becoming judgmental or angry because some people are really pissing me off, that I'm a character that somehow resembles "Queen of Hearts" in "Alice in The Wonder Land", an old queen with little figure sitting on a giant throne and sentencing people just because they don't fit to my standards hahaha
I also tend to be so indulged in my intuitiveness during distressful times, the more cruel the world gets, the more intuitive I become then start forgetting stuff, be more distracted, just the last week I took my son to the nursery during the weekend thinking it's a week day, that's how bad it gets
Yeah the world is not a nice place, at least we have imagination

 

[cascadeco]

I don't even know how to answer this question. That tells you my relationship with imagination!

 

[the state i am in]

i kind of put my attention in between objects/spaces and use it as an anchor to start orbiting an idea in many ongoing directions at once. doing so helps me concentrate my sense of it so much that it becomes an empty space that i can imagine from nothing until i have a workable sense of what it really is, at its barest essence, in all the worlds, one that would consistently grow into the various versions of itself when given the right situations to do so. an elasticky, wind-up, omini directional slingshot re-beginning thing.

sometimes i feel like i am made up of satellites.

during my last ayahuasca experience, i felt myself dead, waiting submerged in the still ether (at times posing as the loch ness monster hissing at others--prob in parseltongue , other times embodying the sphinx), learning how to remake reality by weaving together, folding, and kneading gravities in this ongoing, insided-out emanationness of the matter of creation expelling its own sheaths.

maybe i'm just trying to guess the names of the moving electrons in the atomic sky like reading faces in the clouds. or maybe the reverse, trying to remember where the ground is not just as me but as this entire flock.

all i really know, tho, is that Ne is fun to play with. the channels are better.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

It's very consuming, for me. I let it swim and it takes my entire body, my world, my very existence. I get to somehow move my body on autopilot as my mind does it's thing, and it seems to be triggered by almost everything. The physical reality around me, the sounds I hear, the way people look, what I saw in a movie last night, where I am going in the future. I use it for problem solving, for fun, and to push myself to accept other realities that may feel strange or even uncomfortable, but otherwise aiding my self growth to become a better person. I love letting it loose especially when I listen to music. I like to use it to time travel, to figure out someone's intention, and to get away from a very tiring situation.

This is me when I'm high.

Without the music thing. I don't think of anything when listening to music...except the music.

 

[Norrsken]

This is me when I'm high.

Smoke weed erryday~

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Smoke weed erryday~

Haha. ErrySoOften~

 

[Norrsken]

Haha. ErrySoOften~

I promise you I'm not a pothead.
Although, I could imagine riding a motorcycle could be a better way to get high. I've never been on one before, but it surely must feel amazing, yes?

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I promise you I'm not a pothead.
Although, I could imagine riding a motorcycle could be a better way to get high. I've never been on one before, but it surely must feel amazing, yes?

I like it. It shuts your brain down. You've got no choice but to focus on what you're doing. It's the opposite of smoking!

 

[violet_crown]

This is partly inspired by the thread that is examining the entire differences between the two intuitive functions. As a specific feature of these functions, it could be interesting to hear what people's imaginations are like. The questions are open-ended because there are no assumptions going into this. I look forward to hearing your responses!

Do you use Ne or Ni?

Describe your imagination!

Whoo-hoo!

(edit: I tagged a few people who I have interacted with recently, but I hope everyone will join in!)

This is a neat thread idea. I'm going to share the ramble of thoughts that came to me. Here we go!

I would describe my imagination as having a "cinematic" quality. I will take some initial premise or idea, and then let it unfurl in my mind in a way I feel is realistic, even if the initial premise is not.

I think one of my favorite kinds of imaginative play with other Ni-users is to take some idea, one of us injects some sort of absurdity into it, and then the two of us will talk about the outlandish ways that the idea would play out in a very deadpan way. It usually takes a morbid quality as NJ imagination usually has a Malthusian bent to it.

Interacting with Ne-users the dynamic is a little different. For two Ni-users, the game is more of a "harmonizing" process. This is my vision, that's your vision, and we sort of tug at each other until we're both seeing the same thing. With Ne users (I'm talking specifically about NPs right now), the dynamic I've perceived is one where we use Ni to create an imaginative "structure" that the Ne user will play within even as they push it at the margins.

With NFPs, the main drive seems to be to figure out the "why" of how we present some idea. They'll use Ne as a way to form connections that illuminate Fi information. With NTPs, the question is still why, but the approach is more oppositional. They challenge the assumptions of the structure to determine the logical soundness of it.

It's an interesting comparison of how the two groups apply their respective judging functions. NFPs use extraverted perceiving to optimize (Te) how well an idea aligns with someone's values (Fi). It's harder for me to articulate the motivations NTPs. Something like using extraverted perceiving to analyze the universality of someone's assumption (Ti) to see if it's something they have to "yield" to (Fe). This seems to be why there's typically a touch and go relationship between most INTJs I know and NTPs. INTJs imagination always has one foot in Fi. NTPs seem to read that as something more prescriptive than the INTJ actually intends it, and feels compelled to "resist" the idea via Ti breakdown. Much hurt and bad feeling occurs on the part of the INTJ, and we're off to the races. NFJs don't seem to have this interaction as they'll check the NTP using Fe. ENTJs don't typically have the issue as there's much less "self" invested in most of our ideas; they're more notions of how to get from Point A to Point B most directly, so we don't mind the Ti tweak as much.

 

[Tater]

an intj and entp discuss the inevitable zombie apocalypse:

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

^hahaha I actually relate to her approach. I think about the zombie apocalypse all the time. I notice which houses, apartment complexes, etc have high enough walls, where the water towers are, the best escape routes on the highways, etc. I've noted that the girl at my local pizza place is trained as an EMT, so she's a good one to join the apocalypse survival team. I watch for people with madskillz. I've stored up several pounds of food at a cabin, and my todo list includes learning to use crossbow.


Edit: someone pointed out in rep this is my 6,666th post. It somehow seems highly appropriate, so the occasion must be celebrated zombie apocalypse style.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I don't know if this is actually Ni, but I love the way Lynch describes his creative process here (starts at 1:40). It's very much like a puzzle piece drops into my hands and I'll almost immediately sense it's just one small piece of a much bigger thing- probably because of some very strong emotional charge that seems, to me, clearly related to something bigger than the thing directly in front of me. Waiting for all the other pieces to eventually surface can be an almost excruciating process. I can't force it. I can do things to coax them out more readily, but I can't force it. But the part I relate to most is instantly sensing the rest of the picture it 'belongs' to in a closed off room, like that picture is already complete and I just have to wait for it to present itself.

eta: And it doesn't always pan out. Sometimes I'll stumble on something, it will give me a strong emotional charge that might niggle at me for a while- but then it peters out and I forget about it. In fact, that's probably what usually happens. Or sometimes I'll pick it back up years later when suddenly another piece of that same puzzle presents itself- I'll almost immediately remember that first piece, and see they're connected.

 

[Forever]

an intj and entp discuss the inevitable zombie apocalypse:

That was adorable. I like how you even lowercased the mbti letters. Makes them cuter.

hi i'm an infj, nice video istp. c:

 

[yoliyoli]

Ee, hi! Inferior Ne here! This song describes my personality, or rather my imagination. It's so ethereal even if it doesn't seem that way. Gotta love that inf Ne.
SHINee - Close The Door(닫아줘) [Hangul/Romanization/English] Color & Picture Coded HD - YouTube
I'm a nerd.
It's so Si though. Like the "warmly" and "summer" parts. I can just picture summer over and over again and the ideal parts. It's so nice. It's quirky too, and that's where the Ne comes in.
When I imagine, I don't really imagine. It's like the images are already there. Like tada, it's summer. Yes, I know what you're talking about. Sun, beaches, flip-flops, maybe sunscreen, the way the light tilts just so... I mean maybe but that's what it seems like. And then Ne arranges them into tone. Otherwise they'd be just memories. But they're such nice memories. And then Fi goes "yay! I remember that time when we did this and we felt like this and this and this..." And the song sounds warm even though it's meant to be cold. I can't tell if it's the singers' voices or not, but despite that, it completely goes over my head and warps into summer's past, not what they're singing about. Not subjective at all...

And then, when I was little, I used to talk a lot to my toys and other things. I remember there was this one time where I spent an hour or two talking to the vacuum cleaner telling a story about shrimp and how they had to bound through the carpet (whilst I was vacuuming, mind you).

 

[OrangeAppled]

I think my imagination is more Fi.

I have a complex inner world, but my imagination feels more emotionally driven than "magical". I have never liked fantasy genre stuff much, and I feel like people think this is what an INFP imagination is like. My imagination is not cutesy, filled with fantasy lands or creatures. I am not into epic tales of good/evil. Much of the time, I am thinking, or reasoning on how I feel, and forming/refining what I call my "philosophies". I also explore different perspectives and emotional states. Sadness has always been a fascination, and when younger I used to purposely try and bring myself to tears by imagining gut-wrenchingly sad and emotionally painful things.

When it comes to personal creations, I am mostly driven to give shape to emotional states, and yeah, that can become very abstract and perhaps whimsical at times. If it is not personal (as I dont draw from my life much), then I like to play with concepts that may have an emotional impact or symbolism. I do some character creation, but it also is part of exploring emotions and concepts. Generally, everything has a "personality" to me.

My actual fantasy is more realistic as far as not usually containing magical or physically impossible stuff, although it is not neccessarily literal nor, uh, not full of strange visuals. It often involves tragedy or other things which feel emotionally significant. It can be movie-like with various story lines and characters (often reoccuring) or sometimes it is random visuals which may strike me as embodying some mood or feeling (perhaps music video like - music often triggers this for me).

I do this Being John Malkovich thing where I try and crawl inside people and see everything through their eyes, but it is via my imagination instead of some portal hidden in an office. The whole concept of that movie seems INFP to me. There is a Metric song that touches on the same thing:

Hold it I'm about to drop off
Let me tell you my last thought
Drift into a deep fog
Lost where I forgot to hold it
I can feel you most when I'm alone

[Hook]
Coming home cause I want to
Hang out with a starlet
Stare out at the ceiling
Preview of a screening
Flashback of a feeling
Sick sense of calling
I heard you fuck through the wall
I heard you fuck
When I'm bored
I send vibrations
In your direction
From the satellite mind

I'm not suicidal
I just can't get out of bed
I drift into a deep fog
Lost where I forgot to hold it
I can feel you most when I'm alone
I can feel your ghost when I'm alone

[Hook]

When I'm bored
I send vibrations
In your direction
Through the satellite mind

When your voice
Became vibrations
Through the satellite mind

It sounded like mine

I also dream in an egotistical way - I dream of very ideal or more glamorous lives, of being "set apart/above" somehow, of romantic/sexual conquests, etc. I LOL'd pretty hard when I read another INFP 4 (on another forum) say she mostly fantasizes about WINNING. Yes, it is true.

I dont dream about unicorns or anything so fluffy.

 

[Thalassa]

Did I respond to this yet?

Several years ago when I was trying to decide between NFP and SFP, one helpful point a moderator who knows a lot about type said, when you read a book you want to know why ...why these events happened, why the characters did what they did. ..because you have Ni. An Ne type might say what if this happened on Mars, what if, what if...they actually will change the direction of the narrative. I think a lot of people who write "fan fiction" have Ne.

That does not mean every revision of a narrative is Ne, though. Rob Zombie is an SP, and I know this because when he revised John Carpenter's Halloween, what he did was answer "WHY is Michael Myers like this, who is he?" And that delighted me greatly it's one of my favorite ever horror remakes. Ni Rob Zombie asked why, he didn't ask what if Michael Myers flew on a plane and we had Halloween in the airport, or something else like that.

I think Evil Dead 2013 is an Ne revision, though I love it too, the writer apparently asked what if the possessed woman was a stronger female who conquers her own inner demons, instead of a devilish woman who had to be conquered by the male hero? Evil Dead 2013 added Mia, pretty much erased Ash and split him into two different people and it's really not even the same movie despite some of the obvious details (the basement possession scene, the ancient book of evil spells, but that's likely due to Si).

So that's how I have come to identify the difference.

I remember in high school in drama we had to write a monologue, and I wrote what I thought was some brilliant, esoteric expression of my feelings and experience, and my drama teacher smiled and said "I didnt understand what you said at all." I remember it being MUCH MORE DIFFICULT to articulate my inner Fi/Ni world in my teens, which may be why I took to English so hard to improve clarity in my communication skills...because I've always liked to write, and to be truthful, if I allow myself to "let go" and be completely stream of conciousness, people have had absolutely zero idea of what I'm talking about, because I talk in images, impressions, memories and feelings instead of tying together a web of ideas into a linear narrative.

I think it effects what type of music videos or film I'm attracted to, too. I like things that are like "wtf" so I can ask why and what does this mean, and may project my own feelings on it, while an Ne/Si type might find that annoying or dismiss it as pretentious.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know if this is actually Ni, but I love the way Lynch describes his creative process here (starts at 1:40). It's very much like a puzzle piece drops into my hands and I'll almost immediately sense it's just one small piece of a much bigger thing- probably because of some very strong emotional charge that seems, to me, clearly related to something bigger than the thing directly in front of me. Waiting for all the other pieces to eventually surface can be an almost excruciating process. I can't force it. I can do things to coax them out more readily, but I can't force it. But the part I relate to most is instantly sensing the rest of the picture it 'belongs' to in a closed off room, like that picture is already complete and I just have to wait for it to present itself.

eta: And it doesn't always pan out. Sometimes I'll stumble on something, it will give me a strong emotional charge that might niggle at me for a while- but then it peters out and I forget about it. In fact, that's probably what usually happens. Or sometimes I'll pick it back up years later when suddenly another piece of that same puzzle presents itself- I'll almost immediately remember that first piece, and see they're connected.

I love Lynch too. I'm 99.9 percent certain he's Se/Ni or Ni/Se.

 

[Thalassa]

I use Ni pretty far down in my stacking. This is an interesting question. I'm not sure I can even describe what my imagination is like because it's not something I consciously think about, nor do I enter into a place of self-awareness where I think "Oh, I'm using my imagination right now." The way my thought process functions doesn't even really feel like imagination. Even when I am imagining, there is a goal in mind (like to know the personality/life of a character I'm playing) and the process feels analytical. It's deduction or induction based (or some form of duction).

Not sure what kind of answer this is really, over than inadequate.

I think I know what you mean. It feels for me just like I analyze things which already exist. Or if I am taken by fantasy it's incorporating the known. Or imagining conversations with real people to work out personal problems in my head.

I remember feeling inadequate to one of my best friends in high school, because she always had these incredible ideas or witty lines she made up, and later in life she self typed as NFJ, which I think is absolutely correct, because she's much more Fe than me, but her imagination took more emphasis, and I was drawn to it, maybe because of my tertiary Ni, like maybe this person will understand my inner world, or something.

As a teenager I really didn't know sometimes if I was imagining things or if I had psychic abilities. I believed for many years I was what is called an empath psychic, and sometimes I still question it, because I think I feel spirits in certain places, I pick up on vibes, I lived a great deal in my Ni in my teens without even understanding what I was doing. Because in middle school I was more like ride my bike, roller skate, take dance and gymnastics, love animals, read books, watch horror movies, eat pizza, take pictures of my feet, listen to music, have crushes on boys...I think I seemed a lot more Se before puberty, which is when tertiary is supposed to develop.

 

[Thalassa]

^hahaha I actually relate to her approach. I think about the zombie apocalypse all the time. I notice which houses, apartment complexes, etc have high enough walls, where the water towers are, the best escape routes on the highways, etc. I've noted that the girl at my local pizza place is trained as an EMT, so she's a good one to join the apocalypse survival team. I watch for people with madskillz. I've stored up several pounds of food at a cabin, and my todo list includes learning to use crossbow.


Edit: someone pointed out in rep this is my 6,666th post. It somehow seems highly appropriate, so the occasion must be celebrated zombie apocalypse style.

I think Ns may be very concerned with the zombie apocalypse. I'm more concerned with over population and global warming, which are real. The zombie apocalypse is here, now, it's TV watching consumers at McDonald's not knowing or caring what the hell is going on.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I think Ns may be very concerned with the zombie apocalypse. I'm more concerned with over population and global warming, which are real. The zombie apocalypse is here, now, it's TV watching consumers at McDonald's not knowing or caring what the hell is going on.

For me it's a metaphor for the underlying tensions in society that could unleash any number of chaotic, violent scenarios. Of course it isn't going to be literally zombies, but it could be violence, anarchy, and war. Yes, I could prepare for the pedestrian violence that is the history of humanity, but the imaginative twist just makes it a less depressing, mundane process.

I just stocked up on more food because I am concerned about underlying tensions that could disrupt into both local violence and the ongoing threat of world war.

 

[Thalassa]

For me it's a metaphor for the underlying tensions in society that could unleash any number of chaotic, violent scenarios. Of course it isn't going to be literally zombies, but it could be violence, anarchy, and war. Yes, I could prepare for the pedestrian violence that is the history of humanity, but the imaginative twist just makes it a less depressing, mundane process.

I just stocked up on more food because I am concerned about underlying tensions that could disrupt into both local violence and the ongoing threat of world war.

I think it's important to learn survival skills. I know how to camp alone and am very independent. When stocking up on food, you have to think about resources like water, gas, coal, wood etc. It's important not to collect items which will have to always be cooked, and meat and dairy spoil much more quickly than almost anything plant based. I've considered living off grid, also just to reduce my environmental footprint.

As someone who's studying environmental science, your concerns are real, but there are actions which can be taken to slow down or prevent these events, which is why I am a loud mouth about it. Not because I think the end is nigh...but the end will be fuckin' nigh if people don't stop their shit and pay attention. Practical examples are big picture large scale actions like renewable energy, but individuals have a responsibility to curb their consumption of fossil fuels, metals/ores/minerals, and animal products. Think of it as a domino effect.

But yeah I do think people who have tuned out are metaphorically zombies, I'm a huge horror person, and historically horror eras tend to reflect what is really happening socially in that time period. Zombie apocalypse is all around us. People need to be awoken.