Cold-Hearted Feelers and Unintelligent Thinkers

[Venom]

I believe that while ENxPs are the two most-likely types to be gifted, ENFPs are more likely than ENTPs.

I think the distinction should be "cold-hearted Feelers" vs "warm-hearted Thinkers".

i assume you mean gifted in the way that like "hes a ****ing genius!" like as in tangent thinking, holistic learning (not just memorizing organic chem, but like actually *getting it* ), better than most at extrapolating patterns...

in a way I think intelligence can be boiled down to pattern recognition and best use of logic. Ne is the ultimate pattern recognition. Ti, the ultimate logic. So im unsure how you can say that the ENFP is more likely to be gifted than the ENTP??? You must have some reasons for valuing Te over Ti that I would love to hear .

btw, Im ENFP... im the one who often has all the similar interests as my ENTP friends, but naturally they are usually better at them if they require being very quantitative while i do better if it is more of a qualitative system. often they will get better grades, yet everyone still thinks im smarter than them hahaha. I guess my verbal intelligence kind of shines through when talking in person.

 

[Jack Flak]

INTPs are, on average, just as good at "pattern recognition and...use of logic" as ENTPs, and are commonly "gifted."

I have known "gifted" ENFPs, one specifically comes to mind, though of course logic is often shoved to the sidelines in favor of feeling. Ignorance of logic can have the same net effect as lacking the capability to use it.

 

[heart]

I believe that while ENxPs are the two most-likely types to be gifted, ENFPs are more likely than ENTPs.

I think the distinction should be "cold-hearted Feelers" vs "warm-hearted Thinkers".

I don't think this at all, because the thinker's preference is for the use of logic to make judgements and if their intelligence is limited or their logic is flawed, then they will have trouble using their preference. Without enough intelligence and math skills to think out logic problems in a clear and concise way, how could they adeqautely use their thinking preference and yet it would be their preference.

Just as for the feeler whose preference is for focus on human interaction and values, if their basic connection/empathy to other humans is damaged or limited, then they too would have trouble adequately using their preference.

 

[heart]

I mean really, it would the saddest of all situations for a thinker to not have a strong intelligent basis on which to form their logic and it would also be very sad for a feeler to not be able to make connections with other people and operating on corrupt value systems...yet both still trying to use their preferences to get by in life and failing but not understanding why.

 

[Jack Flak]

I mean really, it would the saddest of all situations for a thinker to not have a strong intelligent basis on which to form their logic and it would also be very sad for a feeler to not be able to make connections with other people and operating on corrupt value systems...yet both still trying to use their preferences to get by in life and failing but not understanding why.

Yes, and it's uncommon but not rare. Life's a...You know the rest.

 

[disregard]

I would expect that a feeler would be more inclined to acquire a defense such as cold-heartedness or emotional unavailability, as they are oriented to feelings, and thus need the defense more than someone who is not (a "thinker").

 

[heart]

I would expect that a feeler would be more inclined to acquire a defense such as cold-heartedness or emotional unavailability, as they are oriented to feelings, and thus need the defense more than someone who is not (a "thinker").

I am not talking so much about self-protection as I am corruption and disconnectedness from other people.

It seems a healthy feeler would develop a filter to keep others at a distance until they proved trustworthiness but what about when even those who prove trust cannot be allowed in? Then that seems to be when a pathology of sorts begins. Also their value systems might become corrupted by the self justification of "it's every man for himself out there! I better get mine too!"

I am talking about damage/corruption not normal wisdom.

 

[Jack Flak]

You're independently re-discovering the concepts behind personality disorders and learning disabilities here, heart. May take it under advisement not to get too riled up...

 

[heart]

May take it under advisement not to get too riled up...

I'm not "riled up" I am merely interested in a concept. I get so tired of being accused of being :steam: when I am merely interested in an idea. (Yeah, now I am sort of riled up about being labeled as being riled up. )

 

[Jack Flak]

I was just speaking with style. By riled up I meant "ahead of yourself" or "thinking that you just discovered the meaning of life." lol

 

[Haphazard]

I am talking about damage/corruption not normal wisdom.

But where is the line?

 

[heart]

I didn't think I'd "discovered" anything, where would anyone get that idea?...just wanted to discuss a concept. Good grief. I am totally fed up now.

 

[Jack Flak]

I didn't think I'd "discovered" anything, where would anyone get that idea?...just wanted to discuss a concept. Good grief. I am totally fed up now.

Nevermind, I'll just walk away. Forget I was here.

 

[Jack Flak]

I do apologize. It takes a great deal of conscious effort to escape our nature. Mine being "a sore tempatation to 'correct' others" and "a need to pour water on others' burning enthusiasm."

 

[heart]

I do apologize. It takes a great deal of conscious effort to escape our nature. Mine being "a sore tempatation to 'correct' others" and "a need to pour water on others' burning enthusiasm."

It's okay. I'm over-reactive lately.

 

[Sunshine]

You would think that.

Depending on how you rate intelligence this may be true. I maintain that Thinking is necessary to be intelligent, but even still: Being T doesn't make you so.

I know this one ISTP...
Well I'll put it this way. CC, you're not half as dumb as he is.

What I want to know is if your're using logic/reasoning does that autoatically mean you're using T? I know that T uses logic/reasoning but IS T LOGIC AND REASONING?

I don't know that I buy all that....about functions and intelligence....not for now anyway...T for intellectual intelligence and F for emotional and social intelligence....I dunno about that.

EDIT: but I guess you don't buy it either because you mentioned an exception.

 

[Venom]

What I want to know is if your're using logic/reasoning does that autoatically mean you're using T? I know that T uses logic/reasoning but IS T LOGIC AND REASONING?

I don't know that I buy all that....about functions and intelligence....not for now anyway...T for intellectual intelligence and F for emotional and social intelligence....I dunno about that.

im going to quote myself

Even though the functions are much better at portraying our "true personality", discussing the dynamics of type, and moments where Ne is definitely different from Ni etc...
I doubt our brain is actually wired to have a Ne or Ti pathway. I think even with environment removed, one persons Ti will be wired different from another persons Ti.

i think its best to think of Fi and Ti people, as people who have a slightly different make up as far as how they make decisions. Yes the differences can be drastic: bluewings rants will be much different from say Heart's.... but i doubt there is like a switchboard with a Ti and Fi pathway.

 

[Sunshine]

im going to quote myself



i think its best to think of Fi and Ti people, as people who have a slightly different make up as far as how they make decisions. Yes the differences can be drastic: bluewings rants will be much different from say Heart's.... but i doubt there is like a switchboard with a Ti and Fi pathway.

Yeah, that's what I thought too. I thought the decision making functions were just that, decision making functions! Why would deciding things a certain way make you more intelligent?

And I think I get what you're saying with the Ti and Fi pathway thing. There is probably no Ti or Fi portion of the brain. When you use Ti and Fi you are indeed using your brain to reason and to come up with rationale but it's not a specific Ti or Fi part of the brain. Your Ti or Fi is calling on your brain to have good rationale and if you've got a good brain then your Ti or Fi rationale will be good, if not then it won't. Lol I think I might have made that sound even more confusing. Did I understand you right?

Uhmm now I have to go research brains...

 

[Nocapszy]

What I want to know is if your're using logic/reasoning does that autoatically mean you're using T?

Not exactly -- Thinking makes decisions based on the logic.
Fs can be logical. Ts can be emotional.
Whichever they use to make decisions determines the color of the function.

For example a Feeling type mother knows that it's much cheaper to send her kid to the public school, but the private school makes her Feel better, so she sends them there.

I don't know that I buy all that....about functions and intelligence....not for now anyway...T for intellectual intelligence and F for emotional and social intelligence....I dunno about that.

Kay. You don't have to. Because functions don't decide intelligence. If there's really a connection it would be that intelligence persuades us to use the 'more intelligent' functions.

EDIT: but I guess you don't buy it either because you mentioned an exception.[/QUOTE]

Well... I mean I know an idiot ISTP. He does things logically, and impersonally -- makes decisions based on logic rather than emotions, but he still does things poorly because he's not very smart, and therefore can't use/construct logic very well.

 

[IlyaK1986]

You're probably not an NT if you're stupid. The end.