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Organization and Improvisation Related to MBTI Functions

Siúil a Rúin

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What do you organize in your life and what do you leave to chaos? How do you relate these preferences to your MBTI cognitive functions? This is a thread to look more deeply into the P and J aspects of the functions. Rather than looking at it as one or the other predominating, it would be interesting to see what aspects of life people with various types and functions tend to organize or improvise.

Do you organize or leave to improvisation/chaos...

Your physical environment of stuff?

Your schedule and plans?

You inner ideas, feelings, philosophies, inner construct of reality?

The external way you express your philosophies, ideas, feelings, inner construct of reality?

Your impressions of new experiences?

Your interactions with others?

Anything else?

Also, if there are any people who are ever in a position of instructor or teacher, how do you organize or leave to improvisation your materials and interactions with students?
 

CitizenErased

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What do you organize in your life and what do you leave to chaos?

Chaos, everywhere, 24/7. I feel comfortable in it. Having timetables, shelves, clothes hangers, deadlines, infinite recycle bins and beds that are supposed to be made, all of that stresses me.

How do you relate these preferences to your MBTI cognitive functions?

Eeer... I never thought/agreed that the J/P dichotomy regarding organizational skills had much to do with the functions. I'm INTP, and P states that either Se or Ne is my first extroverted function (in this case Ne), and besides my Ne hypes making me be oblivious to what I do with my hands (for example, where I place objects) or leaving things for later because following rabbit holes is more important than hanging that coat inside the wardrobe, I don't think it has much to do.

Do you organize or leave to improvisation/chaos...

Your physical environment of stuff?


CHAOS. WASTELAND. PILES OF PAPER ON PILES OF NOTEBOOKS ON PILES OF CANDY WRAP ON PILES OF SOCKS I'LL NEVER FIND AGAIN. Cleaning is an action to prevent a DEFCON 1 situation (like saying, the visit of two very J parents). Said piles act as entertainment in moments of tedious organizing:

-Oooh, look at this, I thought I had lost it!!
*Plays with whatever object for 20 minutes until it gets boring*
*Grabs next object of the pile*
-Oooh, look at this, I thought I had lost it!!
*Plays with whatever object for 20 minutes until it gets boring*

However, I have satisfying moments when organizing my colour pencils, or putting in order my books in alphabetical order (authors) or according to their publication dates, or by fields (philosophy, French literature, Latin American poetry, etc etc etc).

Your schedule and plans?

Sure. Knowing myself and my habits, I have designed a P-proof system:

1) A to-do list for the day
2) A weekly chart on the fridge door, to see what assignments/appointments, etc I have
3) A monthly chart on every college notebook, where I write down all the tasks I have for that professor, and another one next to the week chart on the fridge door with all the tasks from all classes
4) A semester chart with mid-term exams and finals and homeworks and appointments, etc, stuck on the door of my apartment. That way I can see all my future semester in one go, and I get to see it a couple times a day.

But I forget to write on them most of the times... *cries* (still works 1000000% better than not having the system)

You inner ideas, feelings, philosophies, inner construct of reality?

I don't know how I would organize this. My brain does it without me knowing, and it has its own criteria for accommodating data, so I'm unaware of this.

The external way you express your philosophies, ideas, feelings, inner construct of reality?

How do I organize expressions? If by that you're asking if my way of expressing myself is linear or not, well, I jump from one thing to another because my ideas branch out so fast and I have so many conclusions about something that my mouth says two words of each, which makes the sentence and idea incomprehensible. On the other hand, when I try to explain something abstract as a concept, I say the core of it in a minimalistic way. "This is this, this and that". I also tend to do like I'm doing now: enumerations (though I start with 1, 2... and end with 3.2.5, 3.2.6, 3.3.1...). It's tedious to hear but it helps me organize my thoughts to make them "shareable" and I make sure I don't forget anything.

Your impressions of new experiences?

Again, my brain does it alone, how IT likes it and I have no saying on that.

Your interactions with others?

I mostly stay quiet unless someone's wrong, or I have something valuable to say... or sneak some puns and laugh silently to myself. When I speak the most is when I'm angry with people, but when I'm angry, I tend to be very assertive. Then I calm down and I'm with the gibberish again.

Anything else?

Ummm... Nope.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I’ve always tested on the border of P and J, and there are certain things I organize, but others I don’t at all. I think my primary focus in life is to simplify everything to its least bothersome point – this is especially true of stuff, schedules, and ideas. I try to make everything into the most efficient, open-system. While I enjoy organizing ideas, the stuff and schedule I do because it stresses me out, and not out of the pleasure of it. I’m 100% lost and disoriented in a mess. I’m not sure if that drive for efficiency is solely in J territory or not. It is something I’ve heard INTJs do with stuff and schedules.

Where I’m extremely right-brained and free-wheeling is the moment someone else is involved. As a teacher I tend to feel some degree of almost failure in my inability to comply with imposing structure on students. I can’t live up to get everyone ready for judging, competitions, and testing. With many students we mostly improvise in a completely free manner. My teaching style is at the opposite end of the spectrum to J-ness. In relationships I don’t talk about the issues that much or require they do certain things. I think that people who can impose structure on others are more successful as teachers and in other relationships.

Anyway, it’s an interesting dichotomy because in some instances I couldn’t be called a J at all, and in others I suspect people would say no P would bother to organize at all. It feels like I have Ti, but not Fe organization.
 

OrangeAppled

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Do you organize or leave to improvisation/chaos...
CHAOS
I can thrive on it but it also gets exhausting and can lead to burn-out.
Ideally, life would let me do things furiously in bursts of chaotic energy, and then I'd just recuperate and be "lazy" for months on end, then start it up again...

Your physical environment of stuff?
MESS

Your schedule and plans?
I use an app where I can scribble down what I am doing each day (I don't like typing into text fields; I like to scribble as if using pen) or else I don't know what planet I am on.
I also semi-organize my finances on a calendar (how much in, how much out), which is a bizarre way of doing it.
I hesitate to commit to certain things too far in advance because I don't want to agree to something, then something better comes along, and then I feel obligated to follow through on my commitment but it's not what I really want anymore...

Sometimes I can maintain excitement about something if it continues to hold all this potential for amazingness in my mind (something totally new can strike me this way), but other times, something which initially sounded good can increasingly begin to feel like a burden, or like it is now an interruption to something else I'd rather do now, despite my initially being enthusiastic about the plan. This often happens with stuff committed to very far in advance - the idea begins to lose its luster.

The more repetitive something is, the more I will lose motivation to do it. I have a hard time with being motivated for a job I have done for a year or more. My interest can plummet really quickly once I've "figured it out" and now I am just doing the same stuff over and over. I have a hard time with routine and maintaining stability in life, honestly. I may begin to subconsciously sabotage myself, which I have to keep aware of so I can counter it. This begins to show as running late, forgetting stuff, not planning ahead, goofing off, etc. I just really don't want to be there.... I sometimes begin looking for an "out" or a way to change things up so as to get re-energized.

I am so stereotypical P in many ways.

You inner ideas, feelings, philosophies, inner construct of reality?
I spend copious amounts of time and especially emotional energy defining what I think and feel about everything, and I have many different "worlds" where I sort of explore and even construct various ideas, so that these worlds can come to represent what I may term "value concepts". They embody themes I seek to recreate in my reality. I guess you could call this "organization", but the end result may be more like a detailed picture than an encyclopedia.

The external way you express your philosophies, ideas, feelings, inner construct of reality?
See above...I argue with myself, teach myself, explain to myself, clarify to myself... I often construct metaphors and lines of reasoning in my mind to explain some "pre-verbal grasp" I have about something, and if the opportunity arises for me to use it to explain it to someone else, then I might do that. I tend to tackle things that seem apparent to me but that I haven't quite found expressed anywhere else yet, or not satisfactorily. A lot of times these are "truths" about human nature or spiritual concepts or stuff like that.

Your impressions of new experiences?
I don't think I really organize these. Something just "is". I suppose I notice how I feel about it, and if asked to invest energy in such a thing again (or something similar), then I may consider if it is worth it to me. Experience can come down to energy and morals for me, and if the price is not too high for either, then sure, I may engage with it.

When younger, I used to not be able to really process stuff as it happened. I always had this disconnected observer feeling. So then I'd go home and kinda relive it via fantasy and then it was so much more intense for me. I often "added" to it, and I'd sometimes imagine myself as someone else in the experience (probably someone I had observed).

I realized later that a lot of this was not being able to experience emotions in the presence of others as strongly as I do alone in my head. I feel more comfortable with "in the moment emotions" now and I relive things far less now. I tend to really just move forward all the time. I am not very sentimental for this reason. Once I thoroughly process it emotionally, then I don't have a strong need to revisit it again.

Your interactions with others?
Pretty similar to the above.... stuff just "is" and if very unpleasant, too energy draining, or seeming like it encroaches on my morals or asks me to compromise my integrity, then I avoid it. I feel what I call a benevolent indifference towards most people, and I am very comfortable with suspension of judgment about people. I have no need to peg them as being any particular way or having any particular value, with the exception that I like to psychoanalyze people and consider what is driving them and how their brain works (& typology gave me a great vocabulary to use for this). Impressions may build up, but unless there is something very ideal about them to me (I feel a particular connection to them) or they pointedly violate some ideal of mine (usually a prevention of me doing something I deem important), then I don't really have much feeling about them at all.

Sometimes if I feel obligated to interact according to some value of mine, then I can put up with energy draining, unpleasant stuff. This is a big conflict with me in life, admittedly. There are people I respect in some capacity and must work with in some way, but I don't really like them and may feel I have to compromise more than I'd like to because of some common purpose I hold to be bigger than myself.

I don't usually have any particular problem with such people as far as their way of being, except that I feel like they are trying to shove me in a straight-jacket or are judging me for not being their identical twin. The more someone in an interaction is trying to corral me into some concept they have of how things should be, the more repulsion I can feel towards the interaction.

Anything else?
:shrug:

Also, if there are any people who are ever in a position of instructor or teacher, how do you organize or leave to improvisation your materials and interactions with students?
I have avoided formal teaching, but I do sub-teaching and tutoring because I can really just show up and teach. I generally don't have to plan assignments or grade papers and whatever organizational stuff is needed that is probably even worse than what I just described. I am too good at winging it sometimes... Instead of planning how to explain something or strategizing what may be effective, I just read the students in the moment and ideas ping to me about how to reach them. It's kind of like having a general end location but changing the route up as needed. I may swing left if I see congestion up to the right, even if I didn't plan on going that way (and indeed, I likely planned nothing at all).
 

Poki

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chaos is liveable -> perfection is preferred.

i am fine living my life in a limbo states where i just kinda bounce back and forth based on whats happening in life and how i feel

fast paced leads to controlled chaos, slow pace leads to working towards perfection.
 

Forever

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[MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] we are extremely similar.
 

OrangeAppled

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chaos is liveable -> perfection is preferred.

i am fine living my life in a limbo states where i just kinda bounce back and forth based on whats happening in life and how i feel

fast paced leads to controlled chaos, slow pace leads to working towards perfection.

I would love this, but it feels like the demands of life don't allow it... once survival and eating and whatever is out of the way, there is not the time left to really get absorbed in perfecting something.

I did that much more when I was a child with the various art projects I'd do, but I had fewer responsibilities of course.

I suppose that is what I meant by wishing I could do things in bursts, or condensed timeframes of focused energy where I might even ignore eating/sleeping/etc so I can ride out the motivation wave, and then have a very calm, relaxed state to follow it where I regain energy.
 

cascadeco

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Do you organize or leave to improvisation/chaos...

Your physical environment of stuff?

A bit of both. I really dislike clutter, I don't like crap lying all over the place and stuff on the floors, it isn't peaceful to me, it's just messy and disruptive. So I like keeping my living space clutter-free.

I don't think I'm organized, though. Within my closets, drawers, cupboards, it's very chaotic. I'll jam all of my microwave containers on one shelf, for example, just all jammed in there -- I don't organize those nice and neat. Same with drawers of clothes, or food pantry, or desk drawers. I know where everything is, but it's not important for me to keep things pretty and organized in those small spaces (vs some people who index things, have clothing spaced out perfectly, label makers, storage bins with everything nice and neat... that's the opposite of me).

Also I have a spare room that's essentially a big closet, it's by all appearances a mess, but I keep things like clothes that can be reworn lying over chests, piles of paintings, miscellaneous things.

Your schedule and plans?

I have an old -school wall calendar where I write my work schedule and any social things I have. I'm honestly not that busy in terms of 'plans', though -- so I don't need any more than the calendar. I've never really wanted to be super busy; when I start feeling I'm becoming too busy I start becoming stressed. There's a very fine line for me between being too bored/not enough going on/not being inspired by anything, and then suddenly too much and I start feeling overwhelmed, with not enough down time to center and gather my thoughts. I always aim for that middle area though.

You inner ideas, feelings, philosophies, inner construct of reality?

I don't think I think of these things in terms of 'organizing' them? I'm not sure I know what is meant by this. I think I have lots of clear ideas and opinions about things, and I've thought a lot about certain philosophies, ways of living life, personalities, coping mechanisms, pretty much anything tied to being human, and I imagine I'm pretty 'solid' on what I think about these things, but that's the extent of it.

The external way you express your philosophies, ideas, feelings, inner construct of reality?

I don't think I explain things well, and I pause a lot, and I don't think I can explain things in any linear way - unless I am simply training someone at work, for example, and it's a straightforward very tangible process. So I personally don't think I'm organized in expression, most especially in the context of explaining the whys of why I think or feel something. But if it's simply making a statement of what I think, ha, I can be pretty clear cut re that.:blush:

Your impressions of new experiences?

Again I don't think I really associate this in the context of 'organizing'. I feel like I just soak everything in, and really enjoy that moment.

Your interactions with others?

Well, if you're thinking in the context of whether everything is planned out or is spontaneous, I prefer knowing what we're going to do in a big picture way, ie, 'we're going on a hike', or 'going to explore X city today', 'going to strike camp and go somewhere new for the next 2 nights', and so on, but hate trips that are planned down to the hour/minute, and would avoid that at all costs. I used to work with someone who traveled with his wife and they both had every single day planned out, prior to the trip, and my thoughts on that were... :shock: :horror:

Anything else??

I don't think so, other than, the fact that I can't really answer most of these questions in the context of organization/chaos leads me to believe that I don't really think or process things in this light -- thus I'm not really able to answer.
 

Poki

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I would love this, but it feels like the demands of life don't allow it... once survival and eating and whatever is out of the way, there is not the time left to really get absorbed in perfecting something.

I did that much more when I was a child with the various art projects I'd do, but I had fewer responsibilities of course.

I suppose that is what I meant by wishing I could do things in bursts, or condensed timeframes of focused energy where I might even ignore eating/sleeping/etc so I can ride out the motivation wave, and then have a very calm, relaxed state to follow it where I regain energy.

i believe your life is what you make of it and allow. my slowest is pretty much a standard 8-5 job and not much planning. dont have to worry about much.
 

Jaq

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I'd say I have an organized chaos. I get work done, but I don't really plan it out meticulously. Like I improvise much of my work, but I don't just leave it all at a whim. Every goal is broken down into smaller sub goals. If that makes sense.
 

Smilephantomhive

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Do you organize or leave to improvisation/chaos...
Uhh I don’t really like Chaos, so organize I guess.

Your physical environment of stuff?
I organize, but it’s extremely minimalistic. Everything has a general place, but it’s usually pretty easy for me to maintain it and it isn’t super meticulous. My room isn’t exactly clean. Part of that is because I hoard paper and cups because I plan to recycle them but never get around to it.

Your schedule and plans?

Without plans I probably wouldn’t get much done. I plan like one thing to do a day during the summer. Yeah I suck at getting things done. I always need some external motivation such as school, deadline, and people to be productive.
I have a small planner where I jot down things I need to do right when my teacher tells me. I used to remember all my assignments back when I didn’t have as much. One time I had this constitution test that I completely forgot about ,but luckily my teacher didn’t take a grade on it. I know my luck will run out, so I try and write everything down. I would prefer to use my phone, but teachers don’t tend to like that.

You inner ideas, feelings, philosophies, inner construct of reality?
I don’t feel like my “internal world” is that organized, and that is part of the reason on why I don’t think I’m a Ji dom. If my internal world is organized then I’m not aware of it.

The external way you express your philosophies, ideas, feelings, inner construct of reality?

Uhh people say I’m to the point both online and off. I’m not sure how else to judge this.

Your impressions of new experiences?
Depends on what the new experience is. I usually try to soak it all in and understand how the place works, so I can navigate it properly. I really hate driving to new places because everything happens so fast and I suck at directions.


Your interactions with others?

Idk what this is asking.
 

Virtual ghost

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I can't one dimensionally answer your questions and provide full picture. The truth is that all depends on if I am trying to get along with people around me, which is done by playing a rogue intellectual. Or will I drop all masks and be the person that is impossible or at least uncomfortable to deal with ?




Or





For me the real question is not "order or not?" the real question is "Will I be sotonized for going too far ?". What will socially backfire and turn into a serious problem.
In general I consider myself to be a victim and a solution to disorder, bad structural logic, opportunism and incompetence. (So 1 is known as lawmaker)
 

EJCC

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Really interesting thread!

Do you organize or leave to improvisation/chaos...

Your physical environment of stuff?
Very organized and clean -- not pristine, but only because pristine is boring -- until I get stressed. Then everything falls apart, and I put it back together as soon as I regain the time and mental energy.

Your schedule and plans?
Very, VERY organized. True to the stereotypes, I plan my spontaneity. This also falls apart a bit under stress, but not as much.

You inner ideas, feelings, philosophies, inner construct of reality?
I delve into that dark attic and organize, like, one box at a time, and only when the mood strikes me. Maybe I'll sweep the floor and dust a bit before leaving and locking up again. It's too overwhelming and too hard to categorize for me to attempt any more than that.

The external way you express your philosophies, ideas, feelings, inner construct of reality?
I'm going to give a very S answer to this very N question. I am a consistent person, overall, in that I have certain traits that have been the "core" of who I am since I was very young. I have always communicated directly but warmly. I have always been a bit silly and ridiculous. Perhaps my language changes as I continue to learn how to articulate what's inside. But beyond that, I've remained the same. This isn't something I organize. It's something I do, and it's something I always do. But by virtue of me being a very linear and categorical thinker, it may come across as organized.

Edit: Here's an answer to another interpretation of this question, because I'm not sure which interpretation is the right one. I try to be very careful when I articulate my inner world, because the only times I bother to do that are with the boxes in the attic that I actually took the time to organize. So I want to do justice to all the work I put into it.

Your impressions of new experiences?
I organize my impressions of experiences overall, and new experiences get filed away with the rest of them. Those impressions are frequently updated and reorganized.

Your interactions with others?
Hyper-calculated. I have been told that as you talk to me IRL, you can watch the cogs turning as I survey the environment and plan my next move. This tendency can lead to overanalysis and stress, on my part, when people behave unexpectedly.

Also, if there are any people who are ever in a position of instructor or teacher, how do you organize or leave to improvisation your materials and interactions with students?
I'm a manager, and I typically allow for some spontaneity and flexibility as I get to know my supervisee and his/her preferred approach. I believe strongly in adapting my methods to the people I'm teaching -- their learning styles, their wants and needs.
 

Virtual ghost

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I can also add my tritype profle into the mix. It provides pretty correct picture on the issue.


1-5-3 : usually introverted and elitist, prefer the scientific approach in nearly everything they do. These Ones appear colder and very self-certain but can be rather sensitive and fearful on the inside. Are afraid of failure and not meeting the expectations of others, mainly because they think they do not have enough resources for all their projects. They are hard-working, thorough and very meticulous and their work is usually impeccable. These Ones are particularly intellectual, knowledgeable and objective.
usual subtypes: self-preserving, social 1w9
similar tritypes: 1-3-5, 5-1-3, 3-1-5
flavours: cerebral, scientific, meticulous and objective
 

Yama

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Your physical environment of stuff?
Organized

Your schedule and plans?
Organized when it's important (school/work/other obligations). Lazy and go-with-the-flow when it's not (leisure/playtime).

You inner ideas, feelings, philosophies, inner construct of reality?
Chaotic fucking mess

The external way you express your philosophies, ideas, feelings, inner construct of reality?
Organized

Your impressions of new experiences?
Chaotic upon initial impression but can be organized by further analyzing

Your interactions with others?
Organized
 

Siúil a Rúin

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A bit of both. I really dislike clutter, I don't like crap lying all over the place and stuff on the floors, it isn't peaceful to me, it's just messy and disruptive. So I like keeping my living space clutter-free.

I don't think I'm organized, though. Within my closets, drawers, cupboards, it's very chaotic. I'll jam all of my microwave containers on one shelf, for example, just all jammed in there -- I don't organize those nice and neat. Same with drawers of clothes, or food pantry, or desk drawers. I know where everything is, but it's not important for me to keep things pretty and organized in those small spaces (vs some people who index things, have clothing spaced out perfectly, label makers, storage bins with everything nice and neat... that's the opposite of me).

Also I have a spare room that's essentially a big closet, it's by all appearances a mess, but I keep things like clothes that can be reworn lying over chests, piles of paintings, miscellaneous things.
This is exactly how I deal with stuff. I've lived most of my life with really messy, cluttery people, and I usually would organize the stuff to the point I could find things. I have a draw for everything that cuts stuff apart and another for anything to glues or tapes it back together. Each drawer is a mess, but if I need to do something, there is one place to dig around and find what I need. If/when I've had big piles of stuff and can't find anything, I tend to load them up and take them to a thrift shop. I've given tons of stuff away over the years. Now I live with someone who seems mostly like an ENFP, but he's way more organized than I am. I don't mess with stuff if it isn't necessary. It has added to my curiosity about the whole P/J thing and how people interact with the world.

I have an old -school wall calendar where I write my work schedule and any social things I have. I'm honestly not that busy in terms of 'plans', though -- so I don't need any more than the calendar. I've never really wanted to be super busy; when I start feeling I'm becoming too busy I start becoming stressed. There's a very fine line for me between being too bored/not enough going on/not being inspired by anything, and then suddenly too much and I start feeling overwhelmed, with not enough down time to center and gather my thoughts. I always aim for that middle area though.
I have way too much to do, and it's not a source of 'pride' to me like in most social dynamics. People always brag about being busy. I hate it and am trying to rework my life so it isn't like that. I have to keep everything written on a calendar or it won't be remembered. I also find organizing every detail of a vacation to completely wreck the point of it. To feel peaceful and healthy I need to sit quietly looking at nature for at least an hour a day.
 

gromit

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In terms of clutter vs organization: what I care about most if there's an underlying system that makes sense where to put everything, and there's enough room to store it all, like enough room in drawers and enough room in the cabinet. I don't like when things are crammed in and really disorganized. And I especially hate when the storage is too full so you have to dig around or stuff falls out on you. But then, if clothes or dishes are lying around for a little while, it doesn't bother me as much, I can easily scoop them up and put them away in their "home". Temporary clutter like that is a form of chaos, but it's a superficial vs innate chaos.

It is satisfying to create a simple, functional drawer or closet. The organization is not arbitrary but inherent in the function of the objects and the space.



Probably schedule and plans are the least organized. If there's stuff that needs to get done at certain times, like eg seeing a particular patient at a particular time, I'm soooooo happy to let the admin person put that into the schedule and then just look at the schedule and see, ok so-and-so is at this time. When I'm working with a patient I'll have ideas in mind, a general game plan with different options, and then modify or even switch tracks entirely based on what I'm seeing with them in that particular visit. Classic P? Although while past me would have tried to rely more on improvising, I've come to realize I can improvise even better with a little preparation :) Growth!

I don't know how to answer the other questions. Is my mind a mess or chaos? I think that depends most on my emotional state. I get inner turbulence with too many demands and too many negative emotions. But probably most of the time it's fairly steady inside of me.
 
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