edcoaching's Q & A Thread

[edcoaching]

I'm not sure some of those questions would have been accurate, in my case, though. I have always tested INTP, the usual descriptions fit perfectly, and I barely have a scrap of J in me. But I always lived a fantasy life in my head as a kid, I always imagined myself in the future (though I didn't necessarily make concrete plans), and if a teacher gave a stupid assignment, I didn't even stress that much over it--I'd do it quickly in class so I could read a book or spend the rest of the time in my head. If I'm stressed out, I tend to shut down and do mind-numbing things, as long as it's just stuff like overloading, but if it's something that's frustrating me and causing me to question my abilities, I might get a bit emotionally strung out.

I think from your questions, though, you'd have probably said I was INTJ, and I know I'm not INTJ. *shrugs*

Yeah, no tiebreaker works for everyone. Since the INTP descriptions fit you, face-to-face we wouldn't even be trying to break the tie. The questions are designed to get at dominant/inferior patterns but even having a sibling who is slightly different and your constant playmate can accelerate (or stymie) type development...

 

[edcoaching]

"Quotes? Why do I need quotes? Quotes from the text can be misplaced and misleading! Haven't you read the book yourself, anyway? You know this stuff is true, or at least makes sense in some way, so why do I need quotes? Somebody who has never read this book before wouldn't know any quotes from it. For all they know, I could just be making them up! So why? Why quotes?"

Good thing we didn't take the same English classes Freshman year...can see us staying up complaining, never getting it written...

 

[Jae Rae]

That actually sounds typical INTP as the unmotivated student. They'll occasionally protest but rather than fight the system in public school if they find it stupid, they just can't bring themselves to engage...

A friend who used to work with gifted kids and adults told me about the cost/benefit analysis that drives these folks. Eg, in middle school they're the ones who decide not to do the stupid worksheet because they'd rather lose 5 or 10 pts.

I'm not even sure this is type-related in this current environment. I know SO many young men who are having a hard time figuring out goals--whether it's because of economic uncertainties going back to 2001 or because they aren't going to sell their souls to corporate environments and haven't figured out alternatives. Between interests, there's RPG, travel til their money runs out...reading Faulkner and Dick and other tomes, setting up web forums or other tech things, finding others to play Ultimate or disc golf with...In my extended family, three out of the four young men fit this description, although all are scraping by, making a living...

My kid became the house dungeonmaster last year at college.

Thanks, Ed.

 

[Tallulah]

They see it as being labeled and no label could capture their uniqueness. I was working with about 60 high schoolers one day and 4 guys were standing on the side, arms folded, frowning. I asked what was wrong, and they said, "You're trying to label us." I handed them the INTP type description and asked them to see if they found anything in it that made sense (We'd done a bunch of exercises already and i'd seen their output; this wasn't really typing from afar).

About 5 minutes later they waved me over and said, "Yeah, this is us..."

Happens time and again.

LOL. It makes sense. When I was in high school, I didn't think there was anyone like me. I think especially when you're a teenager, if you don't feel like you fit in, you try to spin it in a positive way and think of yourself as totally special and unique.

I was always looking at personality tests, astrology, etc, before I found MBTI, though. I wanted to understand myself, and I wanted to understand what made others tick.

 

[Delphyne]

They see it as being labeled and no label could capture their uniqueness. I was working with about 60 high schoolers one day and 4 guys were standing on the side, arms folded, frowning. I asked what was wrong, and they said, "You're trying to label us." I handed them the INTP type description and asked them to see if they found anything in it that made sense (We'd done a bunch of exercises already and i'd seen their output; this wasn't really typing from afar).

About 5 minutes later they waved me over and said, "Yeah, this is us..."

Happens time and again.

Thanks. I also don´t think any label can capture my uniqueness, but that´s not their job. Labels refer to specific parts, they sort the information pool by picking out information units and define them. It doesn´t make any sense to me to complain about being labeled, because it happens all the time and it´s really helpful. First I would have to get rid of the label “woman”.
It´s a judging thing and as a dominant judger I feel at home arranging and labeling information in different ways and looking for new connections.

 

[Haphazard]

Hmmm....not sure i could narrow this to one type

• INTJ/INTP could do it if they've worked out their full solotion to the world's problems yet can't articulate it in a way that makes anyone take notice (lack of Fe in presenting it...)

So that's it? My articulationating skills are sucky?

 

[heart]

Hmmm....not sure i could narrow this to one type

• INTJ/INTP could do it if they've worked out their full solotion to the world's problems yet can't articulate it in a way that makes anyone take notice (lack of Fe in presenting it...)
• INFJs could do it because we're so used to being right
• ENTPs who don't listen and who are on a crusade could do this, not realizing they've got a goal without execution plans
• ENTJs could easily think they've got the one right way to fix everything and yet lack "recruiting skills"
• I also want to say that ENFJs who have a cause can see anyone who doesn't agree as dangerous to the community at large
• And, INFPs somewhere into adulthood can take on a "crusader" persona, standing up for what they believe in in a catalytic (healthy) or fanatical (unhealthy) way

The other types usually wouldn't be as vocal...but there are always exceptions. And all of the ones mentioned above are examples of lack of type development--not the healthy ways these types would express their ideas.

I am not articulating this the right way. It is not that people are dismissing what this person says. It is that this person observes people responding to problems in the world or important topics and believes that people get hung up on worrying over unimportant points and cannot or will not see the real deeper causes of these issues. It is not about any one particular cause but just all problems/issues that come up in life.

 

[Jack Flak]

That has to be INFP, heart.

 

[cascadeco]

I am not articulating this the right way. It is not that people are dismissing what this person says. It is that this person observes people responding to problems in the world or important topics and believes that people get hung up on worrying over unimportant points and cannot or will not see the real deeper causes of these issues. It is not about any one particular cause but just all problems/issues that come up in life.

That has to be INFP, heart.

I don't know, I find myself thinking it much of the time too.

 

[edcoaching]

I am not articulating this the right way. It is not that people are dismissing what this person says. It is that this person observes people responding to problems in the world or important topics and believes that people get hung up on worrying over unimportant points and cannot or will not see the real deeper causes of these issues. It is not about any one particular cause but just all problems/issues that come up in life.

Sometimes online communication is so hard...

Then I'd say NF's are most likely to do the "I'm not prochoice or prolife but anti people getting pregnant who don't want to..." "I understand the sanctity of marriage but cant' that exist while we still allow others to celebrate their love?" "I want hunters to have guns but can't we work to stop crime?" [Okay, during Obama's acceptance speech I felt he was stealing my lines...]

It seems easier for NFs than any other types to hold things in tension and see both sides...NTs also recognize the many sides of issues but are more likely to want to construct an argument to win others over.

 

[Travo7]

Hello edcoaching,

Pleasure to meet(?) you.

I was wondering if you could help me with a question. I recently bought and read "The sixteen Personality Types" by Linda V. Berens and Dario Nardi and after reading the descriptions and asking for my wife and friends input, the INFJ description seemed to be unanimously the right choice.

Now I am starting to wonder about that. Previously, I considered myself an INFP, and actually the first time I did one of those online tests (I almost wish I had never found them!), I typed as an INTJ, which didn't really seem to fit the bill. However, I really identify with the INFJ description in the book, but the "organizing" aspect is kind of not as apparent as I imagine it would be in other INFJs.
What I mean is, I don't really "do" in the outside world as much as I think I "should" according to my type.

I do suffer from social anxiety, so I have a very clear "list" of things I can and cannot do, although I tend to include some things that are hard for me just so I don't completely sink into absolute "hermitude."

To sum up(a little late I guess), can INFJs seem less determined, structured, organized on the outside due to something such as anxiety, which seriously puts a damper on my plans, or am I just another type, possibly?

Thanks ahead of time. I don't want to overload you with extra work or anything, but I really would appreciate any input you could give me.

Thanks again

 

[edcoaching]

Hello edcoaching,

Pleasure to meet(?) you.

I was wondering if you could help me with a question. I recently bought and read "The sixteen Personality Types" by Linda V. Berens and Dario Nardi and after reading the descriptions and asking for my wife and friends input, the INFJ description seemed to be unanimously the right choice.

Now I am starting to wonder about that. Previously, I considered myself an INFP, and actually the first time I did one of those online tests (I almost wish I had never found them!), I typed as an INTJ, which didn't really seem to fit the bill. However, I really identify with the INFJ description in the book, but the "organizing" aspect is kind of not as apparent as I imagine it would be in other INFJs.
What I mean is, I don't really "do" in the outside world as much as I think I "should" according to my type.

I do suffer from social anxiety, so I have a very clear "list" of things I can and cannot do, although I tend to include some things that are hard for me just so I don't completely sink into absolute "hermitude."

To sum up(a little late I guess), can INFJs seem less determined, structured, organized on the outside due to something such as anxiety, which seriously puts a damper on my plans, or am I just another type, possibly?

Thanks ahead of time. I don't want to overload you with extra work or anything, but I really would appreciate any input you could give me.

Thanks again

Hi--I pulled out my copy of their booklet to see the text you're referring to. Not all INFJs present a task-oriented side to the world, and it can be within their small social circle, not the world at large, that's for sure.

And, type only explains part of what we do. Social anxiety would definitely change an INFJ's tendency to "If I have to be part of this, we are not wasting a bunch of time" in the big picture sense. That doesn't mean you're up front organizing, though.

I'd be curious as to what you see as doing the outside world...for example, my husband and I were co-Cubmasters for Cub Scouts. He's the ESTP, led the pack meetings, handled the egg drop contest from the fire department ariel ladder, etc. I could "see" that the prior leaders hadn't distributed leadership well and that made it hard for them to find replacements. I made the phone calls, got people involved, made sure the pack meetings each had themes/communication, got info to the newsletter person, attended the training sessions to know nuts and bolts, all "chart the course" but pretty invisible stuff that had the troop running itself within a couple months.

So...do you prefer INFJ?

• We often do value spontaneity, but tend to try to clear our plates to have time for fun as opposed to going with the flow
• Usually, somehow a rich, imaginative childhood fantasy life continues into adulthood, whether through writing, imagining the world as a better place, or finding ourselves daydreaming about actually being a favorite book/tv character
• Usually, somewhere in adolescence there's a fairly defining period where we become terribly aware of how others are affected by situations as extraverted Feeling surfaces--for me it was typical 6th grade girl clique activity, knowing very suddenly I could never be part of anything like that again.
• While it may take years to solidify, most INFJs adopt some kind of ideal we want to see come to fruition. The one INFJ I know really well (we are rare on the streets, don't think I ever had a childhood friend INFJ) we joked when teaching classes together that I just want to change the public school system and he just wants to change organized religion. Even knowing we can't get there, we still put a ton of energy into doing our part. We were probably close to 40 when we finally found our causes, though...
• We really think we can solve just about anything on our own. A support group is an oxymoron--and sometimes this is bad since the advice of others can (sigh) give new information

You can be really private and still prefer INFJ. Many of us could spend days by ourselves and not notice if there were enough books/hobby supplies/nature walks/engaging movies/CDs. But when in the outer world there can definitely be a clear vision of how things could be better and teh role you could play, even if it's behind the scenes...

Does that help at all?

 

[Mondo]

I have a question for you.

Could you tell us a fictional character and real person that you think are representative of each personality type?

 

[edcoaching]

I have a question for you.

Could you tell us a fictional character and real person that you think are representative of each personality type?

Is this to invite argument to this thread?

Fiction first, hopefully all examples where people of that type would want to be that type. I need to think on real people since i only really do dead people when i'm officially teaching...

ISTJ--the accountant in Schindler's list
ISTP--Max in Freak the Mighty. This is one children's book everyone should read.
ESTP--Scarlett OHara (all her good points)
ESTJ--Mary Poppins (read the books and watch carefully)
ISFJ--Mrs. Cleaver. Maybe BJ Hunnicutt
ISFP--Melanie Wilkes, Samwise Gamgee
ESFP--Cool Hand Luke (Miss you, Paul...)
ESFJ--Michael Bluth or Meg March
INFJ--Dumbledore (I know there's disagreement but he was so sure he knew what was best for Harry...seems like something I'd do...)
INFP--Johnny in The Outsiders, book version (I never saw the movie)
ENFP--The father in Life is Beautiful
ENFJ--Caddie Woodlawn (sorry for such an old example, but the part where she uses her allowance to buy presents for the abandoned children and how she thinks that if she just goes and talks to the Ojibwe villagers all will be fine...) You could put Doctor McCoy here too.
INTJ--Colonel Nicholson (Alec Guinnis) in Bridge on the River Kwai
INTP--Commander Spock (kind of a copout but exemplary...)
ENTP--Schindler
ENTJ--I'm sticking with Princess Leia

 

[Mondo]

Nope, not to invite argument.
I was just curious since I agree with you 100% that Princess Leia is ENTJ,
I agree with the others I know.

 

[Jack Flak]

"If you only knew the power...Of the dark side."

 

[Travo7]

Hi--I pulled out my copy of their booklet to see the text you're referring to. Not all INFJs present a task-oriented side to the world, and it can be within their small social circle, not the world at large, that's for sure.

And, type only explains part of what we do. Social anxiety would definitely change an INFJ's tendency to "If I have to be part of this, we are not wasting a bunch of time" in the big picture sense. That doesn't mean you're up front organizing, though.

I'd be curious as to what you see as doing the outside world...for example, my husband and I were co-Cubmasters for Cub Scouts. He's the ESTP, led the pack meetings, handled the egg drop contest from the fire department ariel ladder, etc. I could "see" that the prior leaders hadn't distributed leadership well and that made it hard for them to find replacements. I made the phone calls, got people involved, made sure the pack meetings each had themes/communication, got info to the newsletter person, attended the training sessions to know nuts and bolts, all "chart the course" but pretty invisible stuff that had the troop running itself within a couple months.

So...do you prefer INFJ?

• We often do value spontaneity, but tend to try to clear our plates to have time for fun as opposed to going with the flow
• Usually, somehow a rich, imaginative childhood fantasy life continues into adulthood, whether through writing, imagining the world as a better place, or finding ourselves daydreaming about actually being a favorite book/tv character
• Usually, somewhere in adolescence there's a fairly defining period where we become terribly aware of how others are affected by situations as extraverted Feeling surfaces--for me it was typical 6th grade girl clique activity, knowing very suddenly I could never be part of anything like that again.
• While it may take years to solidify, most INFJs adopt some kind of ideal we want to see come to fruition. The one INFJ I know really well (we are rare on the streets, don't think I ever had a childhood friend INFJ) we joked when teaching classes together that I just want to change the public school system and he just wants to change organized religion. Even knowing we can't get there, we still put a ton of energy into doing our part. We were probably close to 40 when we finally found our causes, though...
• We really think we can solve just about anything on our own. A support group is an oxymoron--and sometimes this is bad since the advice of others can (sigh) give new information

You can be really private and still prefer INFJ. Many of us could spend days by ourselves and not notice if there were enough books/hobby supplies/nature walks/engaging movies/CDs. But when in the outer world there can definitely be a clear vision of how things could be better and teh role you could play, even if it's behind the scenes...

Does that help at all?

Wow. That helps a whole lot. Thank you!
The bit on the imaginative childhood and adolescence I think has convinced me even further.

Again, many thanks.

 

[edcoaching]

Okay, now the real people of each type...since some are so behind-the-scenes this is always hard. What is their public versus private persona. Oh, and ethics require that I either really know the person's type or stick to dead people.

ISTJ: George Washington. Exemplary duty-bound-but-wants-to-be-done guardian
ISTP:MBTI Club Home Page suggests Alan Turing who led the allied team responsible for breaking German codes and suggested a theoretical model that foreshadowed computers
ESTP: General Patton
ESTJ: Sam Walton
ISFJ: Billy Graham
ISFP: Mother Teresa
ESFP: Princess Diana. Imagine her reaction when Charles suggested they read Proust on their honeymoon...
ESFJ: Clara Barton, founder of American Red Cross
INFJ: Martin Luther King
INFP: Isabel Myers. I've always thought Abe Lincoln was here too.
ENFP: Bill Clinton
ENFJ: Bill George, retired CEO of Medtronics whose corporate mission is "We save lives". He's dedicating his retirement years to promoting ethics in business.
INTJ: M Scott Peck, psychiatrist and author of A Road Less Traveled. I'd put CS Lewis here too.
INTP: Einstein, Jung, John Dewey
ENTP: Julia Child
ENTJ: The Apostle Paul (my mind is just blank on others who aren't still alive. sorry...)

 

[Haphazard]

Why would Lincoln be an INFP?

Just curious.

 

[edcoaching]

Why would Lincoln be an INFP?

Just curious.

I think his learning style (read everything you can and assume you can become an expert) is truly IN. Not that E's and S's don't read, but it isn't how they'd like to study law. And while his life situation made it the most feasible methods, I think most other types would pursue other fields rather than walk miles to borrow books, etc...

Feeling--The tone of his writings, personal correspondence, and speeches have the NF persuasion feel rather than the NT logical argument feel. Also, while yes he resided as president during one of the worst periods of history and faced personal tragedy as well during those years, I still feel that the way he aged, agonized, and faced depression is more indicative of the difficulty Feeling types have with staying objective. Decisions tore him apart in ways that they didn't, for example, crush Sherman or Grant...

Perceiving--I'm working from the dominant function stand. His whole political life seems more values-driven than idea-driven. There's an INFP tendency in adulthood to say, "Nothing is going to change unless I, myself, start leading the charge." I see this in his entry into politics.

But my interpretations could certainly be colored by the fact that I haven't plowed through many biographies besides Sandburg's Lincoln. And Carl Sandburg could definitely have preferred INFP, which would affect the incidences he chose to convey and the tone with which he described Lincoln.