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Please educate me about Ti

anticlimatic

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Genuinely curious on how to improve a conversational approach with Ti users.


An example that I've noticed in the past is that someone will say something akin to "sweaters are comfortable." And the Ti user takes that sentence and recognizes it as a false statement. I follow that. The part that I question is, why does the Ti user need qualifiers such as "In my opinion" in order to know what the person means when they say something?

Odd. I thought Te users were more obsessed with objective qualifiers for facts and opinions than Ti users. All the struggles I've had with INTJs come from irrational function differences: being provided a question in the form of a statement that amounts to the final step in a series of un-revealed steps that have been bizarrely chained together by Ni. Start from the beginning instead of the end.
 

Evo

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Odd. I thought Te users were more obsessed with objective qualifiers for facts and opinions than Ti users. All the struggles I've had with INTJs come from irrational function differences: being provided a question in the form of a statement that amounts to the final step in a series of un-revealed steps that have been bizarrely chained together by Ni. Start from the beginning instead of the end.

Actually....

This makes a lot of sense. Because "Sweaters are comfortable " is the finished product.

I could try to to do this more. Thank you.
 

Snickie

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:notype:
:offtopic:
What is with all the broken tags?!

What's wrong, can't you tell where the old quote is located?

Of course I can, but as a forum mod (of a different forum, not here) it makes me very uncomfortable. :shock:

So does the off-topicness of this chain of posts. And I don't have anything relevant information to contribute at this time.

(What? I never said I was a good forum mod.)
 

pinkgraffiti

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Pionart

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So, that's what this thread has turned into...

A bunch of people having conversations with themselves.
 

Mal12345

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I could say that if you don't understand something as simple as that, then I fear for your IQ level. But then I decided to shut up 😉

By the way, I asked a group of ENFPs what they thought about the notion of an IQ. Every single one of them had something critical to say about it.
 

Cloudpatrol

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Thanks for the link. Im going to read about it. But I am a little bit suspicious: I think Jung only acknowledged about the first 3 functions.... the 4th ok makes sense to me....but 5, 6, 7, 8? Is there any scientific proof behind this?


Honestly, it is hard to know what is technically 'scientifically valid' when it comes to these fields of studies.

If you google the scientific veracity of MBTI or cognitive functions, you will find multitudinous naysayers. I used MBTI extensively in some places of business I worked (when hiring), but didn't encounter it all when studying Psychology :shrug: Some on this forum decry it's value.

But, does it PRESENT as valid? It's HAS had beneficial effect on my life and aided in understanding other people better.

It's possible to rationally deduce. i.e. With the link I provided. Forecast or hypothesize the value of said information. Experiment with it and examine what results. Practical application of looking at ALL the functions has served me well. I observe that other's who use inferior functions ably are often highly capable and enjoy success :)

I am happy with the results of time invested but am not sure if any of it qualifies as patently scientific.
 

ZNP-TBA

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By the way, I asked a group of ENFPs what they thought about the notion of an IQ. Every single one of them had something critical to say about it.

Same in my experience with ENFPs and feelers in general. They take IQ to mean 'who's smarter' and reject that on a visceral level. Of course that is a very narrow interpretation of IQ. Or they accept IQ as valid but insist on it being purely the result of one's environment rather than genetics. Some people become extremely uncomfortable with the idea that some people have better abilities than others naturally.
 

Ribonuke

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Ti-users are constantly scanning for 'true/false' remarks. Because we are independent in our usage of Ti, we constantly are evaluating and re-evaluating the validity of statements. If someone says "sweaters are comfortable" and we have any reason to disagree, we will openly state our opinion, often times without considering Fe-based concerns like, "Is it really worth arguing about?" I think xNTPs are more prone to arguing for the sake of arguing due to their Ne allowing them to evaluate every possible angle and play devil's advocate.

As for Ti in general, we basically just want to make sure everything "makes sense". If things don't seem to line up with the way we understand the world works (which should be a relatively accurate mental model, if the Ti-user is intelligent and healthy), then we MUST question it or re-evaluate our own understanding, because to ignore it is to invite disaster. Take, for instance, if you are being scammed by another person; Ti is the function (maybe a bit of Ni as well, depending) that allows us to notice inconsistencies in what other people say, say to ourselves "Wait, THAT'S not right. Why would they be telling me that?" and then use our other functions to help come up with various reasons explaining the inconsistent behavior.

Note that this process for xxTPs differs depending on dom/aux function. An xNTP would probably come up with many different reasons (Ne) and then hone in on the right one due to a combination of their logic (Ti) and past experience (Si) to re-evaluate every option until they come to as close of a correct conclusion as possible. xSTPs, on the other hand, look at all the details of the situation in front of them (Se) and then infer from those details (Ni) the correct conclusion (or close to correct, in many cases, because xSTPs may not have developed their Ni enough to not jump to some pretty whacked conclusions sometimes-- speaking from experience here.)

So in other words, instead of evaluating whether or not something "feels" right (Fi) based on our own visceral reactions, we instinctively evaluate what "makes sense" (Ti). It should be noted that all types can use Ti/Fi to an extent, but Fi-users will feel alienated by having to strip everything down to logical analysis because it goes against what they normally rely on. Likewise, Ti-users feel alienated by Fi because we ourselves are alienated by instinctively following our "hearts" rather than our "heads". For instance, every time I try to sit down and write song lyrics and/or a very emotional scene, I have a tendency to feel embarrassed with myself or feel like I can't be sincere/serious, so oftentimes I'll end up writing something really narm-y or over-the-top on purpose as a way of undamming the emotional cork.
 

Poki

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Same in my experience with ENFPs and feelers in general. They take IQ to mean 'who's smarter' and reject that on a visceral level. Of course that is a very narrow interpretation of IQ. Or they accept IQ as valid but insist on it being purely the result of one's environment rather than genetics. Some people become extremely uncomfortable with the idea that some people have better abilities than others naturally.

any visceral is strictly internal...i dont see that externally. i definately dont deal with it from F types. most love the fact within me. you sire its not NTP method of arguing and not IQ. i see a bigger issue with that, especially ENFP.
 

Poki

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Honestly, it is hard to know what is technically 'scientifically valid' when it comes to these fields of studies.

If you google the scientific veracity of MBTI or cognitive functions, you will find multitudinous naysayers. I used MBTI extensively in some places of business I worked (when hiring), but didn't encounter it all when studying Psychology :shrug: Some on this forum decry it's value.

But, does it PRESENT as valid? It's HAS had beneficial effect on my life and aided in understanding other people better.

It's possible to rationally deduce. i.e. With the link I provided. Forecast or hypothesize the value of said information. Experiment with it and examine what results. Practical application of looking at ALL the functions has served me well. I observe that other's who use inferior functions ably are often highly capable and enjoy success :)

I am happy with the results of time invested but am not sure if any of it qualifies as patently scientific.

categorization and abstraction is an art. something designed to help us as a society through reductionism. i dont see it as science.
 

ZNP-TBA

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any visceral is strictly internal...i dont see that externally. i definately dont deal with it from F types. most love the fact within me. you sire its not NTP method of arguing and not IQ. i see a bigger issue with that, especially ENFP.

I mean it provokes an angry reaction sort of like "How dare you say ....."

I'm not following the rest of what you're saying. NTP method of arguing? Can you explain more?
 

Poki

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I mean it provokes an angry reaction sort of like "How dare you say ....."

I'm not following the rest of what you're saying. NTP method of arguing? Can you explain more?

lets take ENFP. they generaly suck at expressing in details what they are thinking. its a high level understanding that in conversion to words get jacked. NTP are much better at the details and will jump all over the "jacked" for accuracy as opposed to understanding. now NTP does not hve that great an ability to see what matters most...just trees everywhere. combine that with "squirel" and they are let chasing squirels with pinpoint accuracy. now...ENFPs love squirels, so they take offense to squirel hunting. as opposed to attacking that they try to fix thier jacked which creates jacked again in another way and NTP goes "squirel"....until either ENFP gets frustrated or NTP thinks they are stupid.
 

Poki

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I mean it provokes an angry reaction sort of like "How dare you say ....."

I'm not following the rest of what you're saying. NTP method of arguing? Can you explain more?

i guess i see it with uneducated Fi. i can see the same in my INTJ dad with slight less external visceral, but still internal visceral. its also more Fi in a defensive mode then a healthy mode. it makes complete sense because of how much we just dismiss Fi and push it off as if its "irrational" instead of teaching. :shrug:
 

ZNP-TBA

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lets take ENFP. they generaly suck at expressing in details what they are thinking. its a high level understanding that in conversion to words get jacked. NTP are much better at the details and will jump all over the "jacked" for accuracy as opposed to understanding. now NTP does not hve that great an ability to see what matters most...just trees everywhere. combine that with "squirel" and they are let chasing squirels with pinpoint accuracy. now...ENFPs love squirels, so they take offense to squirel hunting. as opposed to attacking that they try to fix thier jacked which creates jacked again in another way and NTP goes "squirel"....until either ENFP gets frustrated or NTP thinks they are stupid.

What is it that NTPs are missing then? I follow your analogy but I don't know what it explains exactly. :shrug:

i guess i see it with uneducated Fi. i can see the same in my INTJ dad with slight less external visceral, but still internal visceral. its also more Fi in a defensive mode then a healthy mode. it makes complete sense because of how much we just dismiss Fi and push it off as if its "irrational" instead of teaching.

Just because someone has a visceral reaction doesn't mean I think they are stupid. I'm not that judgmental. :D
 
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