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  1. #1
    silentigata ano (profile) /DG/'s Avatar
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    Default How is it possible for perceiving functions to be extraverted

    They are supposed to be the way we take in data, no? So how can something that relates to input be directed outwards?

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    Senior Member reckful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by /DG/ View Post
    They are supposed to be the way we take in data, no? So how can something that relates to input be directed outwards?
    As a side note, the modern cognitive functions model — which involves a set of function descriptions that were essentially jerry-rigged to match the MBTI types that they purportedly correspond to — says you "extravert" your perceiving function if you're a P, rather than if you're extraverted, and I'd say the characterization of those SP-ish and NP-ish characteristics as "extraverted" is arguably more than a little strained.

    Buuut if it's Jung you're talking about — and I'd say it's primarily because the modern cognitive functions gang like to position themselves as Jungians that Se and Ne are framed as "extraverted" functions — Jung's model of extraversion and introversion didn't exactly involve inward-direction and outward-direction in the way your post pictures them.

    Instead of thinking of a model with two things (the subject and the object) and E/I as the direction of the arrow that points from one of those things to the other, think instead of a model with three things: the collective unconscious on one side, the external world on the other, and the subject in between.

    Now, with that second model in mind, think of extraverted perception as involving the subject turned outward, taking in data from the external world, while introverted perception involves the subject turned inward, perceiving the data (archetypes, primordial images, etc.) from the collective unconscious.

    In both cases, the subject is "taking in data" (as you put it), but in the case of the Pe functions, the source of the data is external.

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    I think it's in how I want to show people how I see or interpret things instead of guiding them comfortably to conformity or responding to their needs in a practical way. Took a test once that said my two likeliest types were ISFP and ENFJ, who have the same perceiving functions. But given my disregard for Fe, my lack of Ni elusiveness, it's doubtful I'm ENFJ but I sometimes come across to people who barely know me as The Teacher stereotype. I think in some systems this automatically would make me ESFP, but the sheer amount of time I spend alone analyzing other people's motives strongly suggests Fi/Ni.

    But whatever seems extroverted about me is in my push to show others my view of life.

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    Junior Member kirsten's Avatar
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    With Ne and Se, you're constantly taking in new data from the outside world and throwing out the old. With Ni and Si, you take it data and then mull it over for a while inside.

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    Senior Member Smilephantomhive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirsten View Post
    With Ne and Se, you're constantly taking in new data from the outside world and throwing out the old. With Ni and Si, you take it data and then mull it over for a while inside.
    This seems right. It's at least what I do (the pi one obviously).


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    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Wow, just posted this Archetypes of the Functions when I saw this.

    Basically, it's not the function that is "extraverted", it's the ego, or one of it's lesser ego states (complexes or senses of "I") that bears the orientation (attitude), which it then filters the functional data through.
    So an extraverted perception function simply means that the ego state takes "in" its data, from the environment, (as was stated), where it "merges" the inner world with the environment. An introverted ego state will take "in" data also, but what it does inside is subtract from the object what is not relevant to the individual storehouse of data it filters things through.
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    Unapologetic being Evo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Wow, just posted this Archetypes of the Functions when I saw this.

    Basically, it's not the function that is "extraverted", it's the ego, or one of it's lesser ego states (complexes or senses of "I") that bears the orientation (attitude), which it then filters the functional data through.
    So an extraverted perception function simply means that the ego state takes "in" its data, from the environment, (as was stated), where it "merges" the inner world with the environment. An introverted ego state will take "in" data also, but what it does inside is subtract from the object what is not relevant to the individual storehouse of data it filters things through.
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