Tertiary Temptation - your experience?

[redacted]

I don't know about this. Is this how you experience it, or is it just an idea? I definitely don't experience it like this, rather I think I can identify all the functions being used at a time, if I'm so inclined. If all are always being used, then that must be in very very subtle ways that we cannot observe ourselves, and that would make it useless to talk about functions. Still most people (in this thread for example) seem to understand themselves as being ruled by not more than one or two functions at the same time.


Could you give an example? My visions are very consistent, whether my Ti tries to make "sense" of them or not. Suppose that I *know* that in the future I will do this and this, because that is what my Ni sees. Then Ti can interfere all it wants to, try to analyze it, derive it from some underlying logics, but it won't be able to, as Ni doesn't play in the field of words and logic. I see what I see, and I only rely on Ti as a way of promoting my visions or ideas in front of others, using clear reasoning to make my point.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/317374-post29.html

This is a link to a single post I made in the other thread giving reasoning for the fact that all four functions must be used all the time.

 

[miss fortune]

ummm... yeah. My friends have complained that I'm a rather backwards person because I'm much nicer when stressed than when I'm happy

Damned Fe coming out then and making me care what people think and about making sure that they are all happy and cuddly and whatever :steam:

 

[redacted]

I definitely think it's true that people tend to consciously put more weight on their tertiary and inferior when they're stressed. But it's not like those functions aren't used all the time in normal functioning.

Anyway, I definitely get into Ti thought loops when I'm stressed -- no matter what vision my Ni can come up with, Ti will shoot some part of it down. This gets really annoying when I'm talking to people and thinking a bunch of steps ahead. My Ti will shoot down the direction I'm going in my talking, and I'll just end in the middle of sentences. When it gets really bad I can't really converse at all.

I'd also attribute my tendency to mess around with drugs while depressed to inferior Se (trying to get a NEW sensation).

 

[Usehername]

INTJs unhealthy Fi:
Getting upset at inconsequential things, feeling that others' are making unfair decisions that affect me. (I used to be very aware of the fact that everyone in my house was "irrational"... turns out I'm the only xxTx in a family of 6). They played by a different set of rules than I did. Decisions by logic vs. decisions by xxFx values means I often did not understand why everyone conspired against me when it came to choosing ways to make things fair.

INTJs healthy Fi:
I can endear many a person to me with my innocent childlike candor. xNTx motivated by the "need to know" fueled by tertiary Fi interaction with others means everyone from ENFxs to ISTxs are taken by my desire to know quirky things about people and ideas and phenomena. Curiosity mixed with pure enjoyment of what I find out means everyone loves that I love the simple pleasures in life. They tend to give me more information if only because they love my genuine thrilled-ness to discover the answer.

 

["?"]

My function order is Ti-Ne-Ti-Si, so I have something to fall back on. No worries.

You may want to check that. You're claiming to use the same function during healthy and unhealthy states.

 

[Domino]

Under stress, my Se used to put my foot in the floor and go dragracing. If I was really frustrated, shouting, in tears, I'd do something extreme with my appearance. Like dye my hair hot pink. Or get a mohawk. Do my make-up even brighter or wilder than normal. I used to do my make-up monochrome pink, even my eyebrows, with heavy black eyeliner and my hair done up nuts. Green nail polish. Aggressive clothes.
Sort of a "I'll do whatever I want" in response to constant rejection or something antagonizing me that won't go away. All to the tune of "Dancing in the Dark".

Se's made me do worse things that I won't confess to in type.

 

[Jack Flak]

You may want to check that. You're claiming to use the same function during healthy and unhealthy states.

LOL, Yeah, that's the joke. I'm glad someone noticed at least.

 

["?"]

Since MBTI has authored very little on the subject it’s hard to determine what a person’s tertiary does, except it seems apparent that it replaces one’s dominant attitude (E/I) and counters the auxiliary functions development. Since my tertiary is Ni, I clearly cannot use two functions of the same attitude simultaneously so it replaces Ti (hopefully momentarily) and counters my auxiliary in my reverting to failing to take action. Instead of acting on actual opportunities, I merely day dream about them. I begin create this whole inner reality that has nothing to do with what is really happening. I become oblivious to my environment and stop being a responsible adult by glossing over real problems.

 

[Jack Flak]

Under stress, my Se used to....

I have doubts that's a tertiary function thing and not something more common. I've been there as well, but perhaps not to the same degree. *plays with earrings*

 

[Domino]

I have doubts that's a tertiary function thing and not something more common. I've been there as well, but perhaps not to the same degree. *plays with earrings*

I had both good and bad expressions of Se. I would be over-the-top regardless of my mental/emotional state, so the vibrant colors and crazy clothes weren't always stress. They were "me" at any rate. But I cite the externalization because I would go radioactive when I was mortally unhappy or frustrated to the point of wanting to do something rash. I had many sources for this sort of severe and protracted stress. But it came out a LOT when my parents or friends were riding me too hard, being judgmental or reeling off lists of "thou shalts" when I wasn't a bad person to begin with. In particular, for instance, when I was involved with a guy who wanted a piece of me really bad (the feeling was mutual), but we were kept apart by (of all things) social pressure. I was an urban punk and broke, he was southern gentry and well-off. I had no idea such archaic mind sets still existed outside of books, but I was right in the middle of it. So just being around each other every day (in the same garage) was really more than either one of us could stand sometimes. I began acting out quite a bit. I had to vent. He'd come forward, step back, over and over. Masochistic really.

So I still assign that kind of flare up to Se.

 

[MacGuffin]

So, what has mean little Tertiary done to you? What is it doing right now? Share the pain.

Si, as it's wont to do, will have me wandering around a dark house at night, listening to music on my headphones, while sipping whisk(e)y/scotch/bourbon and thinking about the past... especially the people.

 

[Kyrielle]

In what way? Example? You might be right. Personally I see the functions like a filter, or funnel. No matter what you do, each decision MUST filter through all the functions, but some make more of a difference then others.

I suppose here is an example:

Healthy me: Ti: "This guy isn't making any sense. Look, see! That doesn't logically connect!" --(gets processed and is filtered)--> Fe: "I know it doesn't make sense, but maybe that's just how he feels about it. It wouldn't be very nice to criticise him like that. It's just his opinion after all." --(is filtered again)--> Ni: "Well if you look at it this way, it DOES make sense. He's just making some jumps."

Conclusion: I do not say anything, but keep listening and understand where the guy is coming from.

Unhealthy me or overcritical me: Ti: "Wtf. This doesn't make any sense. It's makes more sense to go from here to here to here. Why doesn't he see that?" --(is filtered)--> Fe: "It's just his opinion. But it isn't making sense, I agree. But let's not point it out." --(Ni is mysteriously absent and instead it goes back to Ti)--> Ti: "I don't care what you think! It's incorrect!" <--(on-going battle between the two)--> Fe: "No! You can't go around intellectually cutting people down like that. I don't want to argue with him."

Conclusion: Either I look incredibly frustrated because of the battle going on in my head, or Fe caves in to Ti's insistent demands and they both agree to tell the guy how wrong he is. At which point I adamantly try to explain everything wrong with the other person's train of thought throwing in both logical and moral fallacies.

Both are useful. Even being critical is useful, but it's very hard to control and do it without eventually getting huffy and overexcited. That's why I admire NTs and their ability to debate and discuss without getting all huffy about it.

 

[Jack Flak]

Healthy Me: Daryl Zero (Zero Effect)
Unhealthy Me: Ian Curtis on stage

YouTube - Joy Division - Ian Curtis - Transmission - Live !!! 1979

^ What function might that be?

 

[sleepless]

This is a link to a single post I made in the other thread giving reasoning for the fact that all four functions must be used all the time.

Hm, well, I honestly don't know. Maybe it's just different ways to understand the functions/preferences... I'll have to think about it.

In what way? Example? You might be right. Personally I see the functions like a filter, or funnel. No matter what you do, each decision MUST filter through all the functions, but some make more of a difference then others.

Sounds similar to dissonance's idea. I think of it more as the functions being exclusively used, much like Kyrielle (great example there! I totally recognize it), and I also recognize the "argument between the functions". What I meant with the arrows Dom --> Aux --> Ter was that it is ideal to use a function as being at the service of the above ones; Ni making use of Fe, Fe making use of Ti, in the case of an INFJ. (The fourth function would be different though.)

 

[mlittrell]

Right, but you do not, in my case, use Te instead of Ne. I would use Ne, then Fe, then, if need be, I would dabble in Te...maybe even Si. Ne is how I perceive the world (take in information), Fi is how I make decisions (decide what to do with the information), and Te is my backup. To say I ignore my dominant and use my tertiary wouldn't make sense. Your example makes perfect sense btw I understand the arrow "notation".

 

[dnivera]

Tertiary Fi: I lose my decision-making ability and become paralyzed by other people's expectations/feelings. I worry about how that person will hate me, etc, if I do X, and lose a sense of what's and wrong.

 

[Mort Belfry]

Si is what will make me a hermit if I'm not careful.

It is what will hold me up at work if I get seven easy jobs and one difficult one, I will labour over the difficult one while my easy jobs start piling up which will make them more difficult when I run out of time.

I have thought about how my own Ti interferes and makes me lose perspective. Some observations on what it does:

- It tries to understand my Ni vision, and incapable of doing so rejects it as being "illogical" or "not making sense"

This is why I have trouble trusting Ni.

 

[redacted]

Yes, Ni unchecked isn't that great. But then, neither is any function.

 

[sleepless]

This is why I have trouble trusting Ni.

Yes, Ni unchecked isn't that great. But then, neither is any function.

I think there is a point in having not more than one basic approach to life (Dominant function, that is), instead of some compromise between two or more. The Ti and Ni approach (for example) collide with each other and doesn't approve of the other. The question then is: Which one do you approve of? What is your approach? If we refuse to choose then we might not get anywhere with anything. One day we try to logically prove something through thorough analysis and argumentation, the next day we see through it all as being completely irrelevant and out of perspective. Mort Belfry, as an INTP you probably don't have to bother with Ni very much. For me, Ni is a holistic function whereas Ti is quite narrow. Your Ti probably works much better.

 

[cloakofsnow]

So, what has mean little Tertiary done to you? What is it doing right now? Share the pain.

My tertiary function is Si, and this is a very "mysterious" function to me. During normal times I think I resort to this function when I'm engaged in my hobbies or some sort of creative and imaginative activity. I wonder if that is the general case -- that people often use their tertiary function for hobbies, art, etc. But in moments when I'm "in the grip", Si starts working with my inferior Te. Te naturally makes conclusions that opposes my dominant Fi values, and Si only gathers "evidence" to support this. During such times, I would be very paranoid and suspicious. I would notice all sorts of details and "clues" about a situation and other people, and based on these little clues I will make huge, sweeping conclusions and feel very certain that I must be right, that what I hold dear is at stake. I can create this whole entire scenario inside of my head and feel quite sure that it is the objective truth. Only when I get back to normal again do I realize that I've been blowing everything out of proportion, jumping to conclusions, and being completely one-sided in my perspective of the situation.