User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 26

  1. #11
    Digital ambition Virtual ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    iNTJ
    Enneagram
    513 so/sp
    Posts
    10,625

    Default

    It all depends how constructive and competent is authority. I don't believe in rising hell for the sake of hell.


    But I will be honest. (perhaps too honest)

    I don't see authority as something static and irreplacable. Back in the fall of 1991. airforce of the neigbouring country launched surprise attack under a direct order to hit presidential office in my country. What is exactly what they did but they had bad luck that for some reason president wasn't there. Since this happened in my home city when I was a kid I remembered this event, especially because of the insight it gave me: Authority can be really powerful and dominering, it can also be very good or very bad ... but no matter what authority is basically always replaceable if you try hard enough. Therefore if I consider authority to be of value and use I will even try to protect it since I KNOW that it is replaceable. (if not I will just try to go away) Some people never get to such realizations but in my case it happned very early in life.


    Therefore I always had more like buddy/equal relationship with various authority.


    Challenging my teachers openly in their claims.
    Writting a schedule for groups to my ENFP professor that got "lost in the mess".
    I have destroyed many figures of authority in video games.
    I convinced my parents many times of what they should do under current cirrcumstances or I completely avoided what they say.
    I say openly to authority/boss "Look, this and this is bad. We should change it".

    Etc.
    Likes Madisonclark liked this post

  2. #12
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,557

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Madisonclark View Post
    I'm an ENTP, and I have struggled with listening/following authority ever since I can remember. Whether it's because I think my authority isn't qualified to be in a position of leadership, or because I just don't want to be bossed around, I've always hated it.
    My ISFP brother, however, has no problem being told what to do. He follows, listens, and was always the perfect child. Am I just a brat, or does this have something to do with how our brains work..? Thanks! [emoji16]
    Quote Originally Posted by Verona View Post
    I have always reacted unfavorable to dictator-type authority. Basically if someone tells me they want me to do something in a really bossy way I will deliberately not do it. My report card at school always said I was a gifted student but I had an attitude problem. I was also hugely rebellious towards my parent's authority as a child. As an adult I still avoid situations where I feel controlled but it isn't as strong of an aversion.

    I don't know if it is type related or not. A friend of mine said it was unlikely I was an SJ based on that.
    Respect toward authority is what would be connected with what's called "wanted Control" in the APS temperament system I always talk about (which is derived from FIRO-B, which divides behavior into "expressed" and "wanted"). NT's are "Choleric in Control". Choleric has a low "Wanted" behvior, which indicates a strict criteria for coming under others' control. For the NT, it's the iNtuition and Thinking. Things have to make intuitive sense, or he'll think it's "nonsense" and likely resist.
    This is what Keirsey/Berens-based temperament theory would consider an "abstract structure". The other structure-focused temperament is the SJ. That's the Melancholy in Control. Melancholy also has low Wanted behavior. Now, when you think of Melancholy or especially SJ, you usually think of the "guardians" who would never rebel against authority. But then, they're also "cooperative" (which would be low expressed Control, based on the need to find out what's "right", before acting), which will be slower to take self-initiated action. (NT's are "pragmatic" which will a higher expressed Control acting on whatever "works") So the SJ's "Structure" is "concrete". They operate off of introverted Sensing (the Sensing + Judging), and so their strict criteria for coming under control is a concrete, "authorized" authority, as well as familiarity. Hence, "Guardians", who will seemingly always follow. However, when this is not met, then their low Wanted behavior will come out (very strongly, often), and the corresponding FIRO scores were even labeled "the Rebel". Since FIRO looks more at negative behaviors, while MBTI and Keirsey look more at positive, you don't really see this in SJ descriptions. But ask anyone who's around them what they're like when they don't get their concrete structure, and they're being pushed into a lot of "abstract" plans with no certainty or authorization!

    The cooperative/motive-focused (low expressed, high Wanted) NF can be either Supine, who will also be more of a "follower", or a Phlegmatic, who can be very stubborn when pushed. So we see NF's can go either way. (While the pragmatic/motive-focused SP is operating off of extraverted Sensing, which will go with the flow of the current sensations, and so the "Sanguine in Control" is described as "swinging" between independence and submission).

    All of this is also tempered by Interaction Style (I/E + T/F/J/P) or "Inclusion" temperament. So my tendency to "rebel" will be hampered by wanting to be accepted or responded to favorably. Like NF, the ISF/INP group can be either Supine or Phlegmatic, and the Supine will tend to be more yielding, while Phlegmatic will be more stubborn or sluggish, or may yield, just to "keep the peace".
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas
    Likes Cellmold, Madisonclark liked this post

  3. #13
    Member Madisonclark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    3w2 so
    Socionics
    ILE Ti
    Posts
    39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Respect toward authority is what would be connected with what's called "wanted Control" in the APS temperament system I always talk about (which is derived from FIRO-B, which divides behavior into "expressed" and "wanted")
    How do I find info on this system? Are there any books or websites on this that you would recommend?

  4. #14
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,557

    Default

    Being virtually unheard of in the type community, until I started discussing it, and I only knew about it because my wife got a license with the Christian ministry producing it; the most info is on my own page: http://www.erictb.info/temperament1s.html

    A book by a licensed counselor in the system (so this is more closer to being an "official" presentation of the theory than my page) that introduces the theory and gives a lot of detailed descriptions of the temperaments can be downloaded here: http://jacksonsnyder.com/mgi/studies/GCY.pdf

    You can also see detailed descriptions of all the possible temperament variations (17 each, in the three areas of interaction) here: Free Temperament Reports for Clients
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas
    Likes Madisonclark liked this post

  5. #15
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    827 sp/so
    Posts
    20,732

    Default

    depends on how competent they are and how they wield their authority... if they're incompetent pricks I won't respect them, but if they're good at their jobs and don't get in my way, I don't care one way or another (and if they're helpful and nice I might even like them!)
    “The phrase 'Someone ought to do something' was not, by itself, a helpful one. People who used it never added the rider 'and that someone is me'.” - Terry Pratchett

  6. #16
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 sp/so
    Socionics
    EIE Fe
    Posts
    8,632

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    depends on how competent they are and how they wield their authority... if they're incompetent pricks I won't respect them, but if they're good at their jobs and don't get in my way, I don't care one way or another (and if they're helpful and nice I might even like them!)
    Yeah this is more or less how I am as well.

    Just because I don't have problems with authority, doesn't mean I won't cause problems for it if it seems like it's not doing it's job correctly. I can actually go to very great (sometimes very manipulative) lengths to circumvent or change it if it's shitty. Such as the ISTJ professor I had to TA for this term .
    Likes Madisonclark liked this post

  7. #17
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    HUMR
    Enneagram
    6 sx
    Socionics
    iNfp Ni
    Posts
    1,521

    Default

    I have tended to have problems with authority for much of my life, and am aware that any kind of perceived power-abuse comes in on my radar, more-so it seems, than many of my friends/family. Seems to be common for CP6, and interestingly..the more blocked I've been from my own 'inner-authority' or guidance, the more rigid and high of standards I've projected outside of myself. It is only in the last year or two, that this relationship has softened a bit. The more I trust my own mind, the less critical I become of authorities. I can accept their imperfections/mistakes/flaws more easily...because it isnt experienced as such a 'threat'.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts
    Likes Madisonclark liked this post

  8. #18
    Junior Member classic-misdirection's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    8w7
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Always had a problem with authority except for the most competent and respected. I think I've always given authority figures a chance to show they deserve any authority over me, but often the chance is over blindingly fast or a straight up challenge. After all, an authority figure who can't win a challenge by his subordinate isn't really authority - more of a placeholder for the real authority institution. Placeholders were tolerable as long as they didn't micromanage.
    I suppose that what I've always wanted to establish up front the most is an appropriate degree of autonomy. I absolutely understand the need for authority structures, so if I can see eye to eye with whoever is in charge, we'll get along great. Just don't insult me by assuming I won't whipe my ass if I'm not told when, how, and the number of squares per wipe. I know what the macro objective is, so let me so my job. Don't flex your authority at me unnecessarily, and when I'll support your use of it when it is necessary.

    Also, to some extent (a big one) being told not to do something is a direct challenge. It's not necessarily malice (though that'll usually develope in time) but competition or sport. Pretty stereotypical.
    Likes Madisonclark liked this post

  9. #19
    Junior Member classic-misdirection's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    8w7
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Oh yeah, you and your brother probably have different dads.

  10. #20
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    SEI Fe
    Posts
    7,996

    Default

    I tend not to question authority unless they're really shitty or incompetent. I don't really have a problem with accepting others' authority at all. I appreciate a friendly but strict authority figure when they're able to do their job right.
    Likes Madisonclark liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. I'm still struggling with figuring out my MBTI type.
    By Purplemoon in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-13-2016, 10:17 PM
  2. "Does Everyone Else Know This?"
    By Eldanen in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-21-2008, 08:20 PM
  3. [JCF] INFJ / INTJ struggles with Sensor (e) world?
    By Introverts_Unite! in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 11-25-2007, 07:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO