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Why do most people believe you can't change your type?

Zeego

Mind Wanderer
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I almost wonder if the MBTI just doesn't fit certain people all together very well.

Yeah, I've sometimes wondered this as well. I'm almost certain I've switched from INTP to ISFP and back at several points in my lifetime. It's not just a minor change, it's a complete inversion of my personality. It's caused me great distress in some cases because for a while after the switch happens, I have trouble identifying with my own ego. I literally feel like a different person, almost like I'm being possessed or something.
 

meowington

Parody Parrot
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Don't underestimate genetics and environmental factors the first 3-4 years in one's life. I think this determines roughly 90% of who we are.

Eventhough our brains are very flexible, I've never seen a drastic personality change in anyone I've known. I often use the saying 'people don't change'. Unless you're talking brain seizures or other severe traumas.
I think people can drastically change their attitude (for better or worse) but not their type.
 

Jaguar

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20,647
Considering idiotic statements such as "I am weird" can be seen on so-called type tests, I think it's safe to say one could change their type as often as they take a piss.
 

Bush

cute lil war dog
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Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
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"The topic of personal identity is strictly speaking nonexistent. It’s important to recognize that we are not the kind of things that simply popped into existence at birth, continue to exist, the same thing, then die off the cliff edge or go into another realm. We are these very remarkably ordered collections of things. It is because we’re so ordered that we are able to think of ourselves as being singular persons. But there is no singular person there, that means we’re forever changing.” - Julian Baggini: The Ego Trick: In Search of the Self
 

lunalum

Super Senior Member
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What I have seen is that people tend to cycle through different functions in patterns that usually roughly fit a particular type. I think the difference between this perspective on type and the way that Jung classically framed it is little more than different framing, a matter of semantics. I also think that perhaps Nardi did not factor this fluctuation within type development thoroughly enough when drawing conclusions on his data.
 

Galaxy Gazer

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I think the majority of people who enforce this belief are NTs who like to believe that anyone they dislike is an INFP and cannot possibly be anything else.
 

Kheledon

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I recall reading somewhere that one's Jungian "type" is set by the age of five. I have no empirical evidence to support this position at the moment, but I can say this. I self-typed as an INTJ from the age of 19 until the age 47. Cultural bias tells men they must be T. My insecurities made me look and feel like an I. Once I actually discovered that I was an ENFJ, however, and once I thoroughly reviewed and examined my actual behavior throughout my life (as opposed to my self-image and/or the "mask" I wore when I engaged with others and the world), it became clear to me that my behavior has always matched the behavior that Socionics, at least, predicts as typical for an ENFj. I had been deceiving myself about who I truly was for many years.

Cognitive functions, it appears to me, based upon my own, personal experience, seem to become hard-wired at an early age. I was always a performer, even as a young child. I can remember my grandmother telling me, "You were always the cutest child," and other relatives also have shared stories of my "performances" as a young person. I remain, in essence, a "performer" to this day.
 

Laxton

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I personally don't believe people change. They can learn new habits and behavior to hide sides of themselves but those are just superficial. Person beneath stays the same.

What is "the person beneath" exactly? I can't remember what I was like in middle school and elementary school, but I don't see how that dictates how I am today.

Sure, developing a sense of responsibility and having more respect for others can change your behaviors, but I don't see how it cannot be attributed to a change in personality if it is a lasting change. A person is capable of growth and development, and I don't see how changing your behaviors and actions does not constitute a change in personality. Clearly it means that a person has redefined their priorities for some reason, whether it be an internal change or the result of an external influence. The change still takes form, and others can see it.

However, your actions are the only part of your personality that people can see. If I don't talk and I space out all the time, then people are inclined to think I'm an idiot because I haven't contributed anything. It's different if I answer a difficult question or give people the impression that I am more competent than them, but what I have done is simply changed their perception of me because I have shown them what I am capable of.

What if I decide that I want to work harder, and force myself to do it until it becomes integrated within my consciousness to the point where I do it without thinking? Is it fair to say that I have changed myself, or am I still the same person because I was once very different in my habits?

What if I suffer intense psychological trauma that significantly alters my way of thinking? Is it not fair to say that I have changed then?
 

Yama

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I think the majority of people who enforce this belief are NTs who like to believe that anyone they dislike is an INFP ESFJ and cannot possibly be anything else.

fixed

but ftr i don't think type changes. we grow older and gain life experience and mature and balance out, but it doesn't actually change.
 

Zeego

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What is "the person beneath" exactly? I can't remember what I was like in middle school and elementary school, but I don't see how that dictates how I am today.

Sure, developing a sense of responsibility and having more respect for others can change your behaviors, but I don't see how it cannot be attributed to a change in personality if it is a lasting change. A person is capable of growth and development, and I don't see how changing your behaviors and actions does not constitute a change in personality. Clearly it means that a person has redefined their priorities for some reason, whether it be an internal change or the result of an external influence. The change still takes form, and others can see it.

However, your actions are the only part of your personality that people can see. If I don't talk and I space out all the time, then people are inclined to think I'm an idiot because I haven't contributed anything. It's different if I answer a difficult question or give people the impression that I am more competent than them, but what I have done is simply changed their perception of me because I have shown them what I am capable of.

What if I decide that I want to work harder, and force myself to do it until it becomes integrated within my consciousness to the point where I do it without thinking? Is it fair to say that I have changed myself, or am I still the same person because I was once very different in my habits?

What if I suffer intense psychological trauma that significantly alters my way of thinking? Is it not fair to say that I have changed then?

These are the kinds of factors that I find people don't take into account when they say personality never changes. As Shakespeare wrote in Othello, "It is in ourselves that we are thus or thus."
 

Nico_D

The Lost One
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What is "the person beneath" exactly?

I see it as the person that is left when people are stripped of their possessions, dignity, feelings of self-importance and self-confidence - basically, your motivation. How you are then is what you are at core. If we are happy, we have money and security, it is very easy to do the "good human being act" or whatever you like to call it. But of course, this is just an extreme example but that is what I mean by "beneath".

Sure, developing a sense of responsibility and having more respect for others can change your behaviors, but I don't see how it cannot be attributed to a change in personality if it is a lasting change. A person is capable of growth and development, and I don't see how changing your behaviors and actions does not constitute a change in personality. Clearly it means that a person has redefined their priorities for some reason, whether it be an internal change or the result of an external influence. The change still takes form, and others can see it.

I am fully aware that we are on the verge of semantics here but here goes anyway. I see that as a change of behavior, not a change in personality. Let's say I'm lazy to the core but because I live with a woman who expects me to do certain things at home in relation to chores or kids, I'll go with it cause I want her to love and appreciate me. If I don't do that, I put the love and my security to risk. So everything I need to do these things, I feel like I really wouldn't want to (as opposed to "yeah, sure!"), I do it because that's acceptable behavior. Or you find money on the sidewalk. You would like to keep it but maybe upbringing has put into your head the idea that it's wrong and it's a good deed to return it to the owner?

If the case is such that previously you would've kept the money or would have been lazy jackass but no you are definitely not that, you don't even think about keeping the bucks or staying on the couch, then I can admit your personality has changed. Naturally, if you've gotten rich meanwhile, it doesn't tell that much about your changed personality but instead of changed circumstances which is not a proof of personality change.

What if I decide that I want to work harder, and force myself to do it until it becomes integrated within my consciousness to the point where I do it without thinking? Is it fair to say that I have changed myself, or am I still the same person because I was once very different in my habits?

It depends what are your motivations. If you are working harder to get recognized or get wealthy, then it's the motivation that is driving you - not your change of personality. If you still find yourself working immensely hard when there's nothing to be gained from it, then you've changed your personality. Motives always trump the core personality - it's more about what happens when those motives run out. That's when you are seeing the core personality.

What if I suffer intense psychological trauma that significantly alters my way of thinking? Is it not fair to say that I have changed then?

Artificial and far-fetched to this discussion. What if I lose my leg - isn't it fair to say I have become one-legged? Traumas and sicknesses are a completely different matter if we are talking about people being able to change personality.
 

Laxton

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I see it as the person that is left when people are stripped of their possessions, dignity, feelings of self-importance and self-confidence - basically, your motivation. How you are then is what you are at core. If we are happy, we have money and security, it is very easy to do the "good human being act" or whatever you like to call it. But of course, this is just an extreme example but that is what I mean by "beneath".



I am fully aware that we are on the verge of semantics here but here goes anyway. I see that as a change of behavior, not a change in personality. Let's say I'm lazy to the core but because I live with a woman who expects me to do certain things at home in relation to chores or kids, I'll go with it cause I want her to love and appreciate me. If I don't do that, I put the love and my security to risk. So everything I need to do these things, I feel like I really wouldn't want to (as opposed to "yeah, sure!"), I do it because that's acceptable behavior. Or you find money on the sidewalk. You would like to keep it but maybe upbringing has put into your head the idea that it's wrong and it's a good deed to return it to the owner?

If the case is such that previously you would've kept the money or would have been lazy jackass but no you are definitely not that, you don't even think about keeping the bucks or staying on the couch, then I can admit your personality has changed. Naturally, if you've gotten rich meanwhile, it doesn't tell that much about your changed personality but instead of changed circumstances which is not a proof of personality change.



It depends what are your motivations. If you are working harder to get recognized or get wealthy, then it's the motivation that is driving you - not your change of personality. If you still find yourself working immensely hard when there's nothing to be gained from it, then you've changed your personality. Motives always trump the core personality - it's more about what happens when those motives run out. That's when you are seeing the core personality.



Artificial and far-fetched to this discussion. What if I lose my leg - isn't it fair to say I have become one-legged? Traumas and sicknesses are a completely different matter if we are talking about people being able to change personality.

I can't really argue with anything that you just said. I can agree that motivation can drive a change in behaviors, and I see where it is that you draw the line in determining what is behind a change in behavior.

However, I don't see what makes a trauma and mental illness an artificial circumstance, as over a quarter of the United States' adult population suffers from a diagnosable mental illness. Why do you believe a psychological disorder to be analogous to a situation like losing a leg? One occurs internally, while the situation that you described is visible to others.
 

geedoenfj

The more you know..
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I think if you have a strong will and desire to change anything in yourself you'll be able to do it..
When I was a child, I used to be introverted and rarely interact with people, but I wanted to be an extrovert (still a little bit shy) and now I'm an extrovert..
 

ceecee

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Why does it matter? People change their types all the time as they learn more about themselves. Who cares? There are people here that go from INFP to ISFP to ENTJ in a matter of months.

Just kidding on that last one.
 

Jeremy8419

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"Type" is nothing more than the classification of behavioral and psychological habits. Habits can be changed, but may or may not change.
 

Nico_D

The Lost One
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However, I don't see what makes a trauma and mental illness an artificial circumstance.

Sorry, I meant artificial (argument) in this discussion as it is not because of will or motives. It's a forced change - and even then we can argument that mental illness does affect, say, chemical balance of the brain. Maybe temporarily, maybe permanently. But does it change the core person which might returns if we were able to cure the illness? Take bipolars for example as that is such a trendy diagnosis. It is more or less for life but does the person change from what he was before he got sick - or does bipolar bring more on top of the old personality, maybe enchancing some of his already existed and unwelcome characteristics? Honestly, I don't know. Remove the bipolarity, do you get the same (core) person back as he was? Is the core personality moldable or is it for life regardless of what happens? This is where our difference of opinion lies and that's great.

If anything, I think it makes you better people than me as I can be quite a cynic believing people don't change.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
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There are two main theories of type according to type stability.

One is that you have eternal type, true type, and it is only sometimes shows wrongly in some tests or in other ways.

The other is that there's a current type, which is pretty stable, but it can change. Also that tests can't ascertain any "eternal" or forever type or anything like that whatsoever.

I for one believe in the latter. It's tempting but ultimately ridiculous to believe in an eternal type. I am one of those ridiculous persons wishing to find out my true type, but with logic, I can understand I am being silly.
 
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