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Is MBTI all about preference or is there more to it?

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
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What about actions, thoughts, and behavior? Do those ever come into play? Surely both must have some relevancy and it wouldn't be right to completely ignore either of these, right?

I'm asking this because I've realized that this is probably one of the biggest reasons why I have never been 100% certain of my type.

Example:
My S/N divide has always been totally clear. I act, think like, and behave as a sensor. But in looking at the T/F divide, I behave like and prefer two different ways. I seem to think somewhat like a feeler (and act like a fairly reserved one), yet I prefer thinking scenarios. That is, I prefer scenarios where feeling is not needed/relevant.
 

Yama

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I always thought it was more than just preference. Behavior is just as much of an indicator as cognition, or at least so I've always thought. I don't think you have to particularly like feeling to be a feeler.
 

Eric B

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That would make sense for an ISTJ, with dominant Sensing, auxiliary Thinking and tertiary Feeling. The Sensing, as the dominant ego view, will be more sure, but the judgment functions might not necessarily be as clear. Jung actually once considered "two auxiliaries", and it leads to dispute as to what his type was, ("NiTi", TiNe, TiSe, etc).
"prefer scenarios where feeling is not needed/relevant" is the big clue. The "preference" is all about what the ego sees as more "relevant". So I'm not sure what you mean by "think somewhat like a feeler (and act like a fairly reserved one)", but that is certainly possible with Feeling as tertiary (which is described as often being the "relief" function).
 

Poki

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What about actions, thoughts, and behavior? Do those ever come into play? Surely both must have some relevancy and it wouldn't be right to completely ignore either of these, right?

I'm asking this because I've realized that this is probably one of the biggest reasons why I have never been 100% certain of my type.

Example:
My S/N divide has always been totally clear. I act, think like, and behave as a sensor. But in looking at the T/F divide, I behave like and prefer two different ways. I seem to think somewhat like a feeler (and act like a fairly reserved one), yet I prefer thinking scenarios. That is, I prefer scenarios where feeling is not needed/relevant.

Thats actually one way i have been using to determine type. I am the same in that my T/F is a huge difference. But i navigate between N and S alot. They do good balance each other out in support of what Ti builds.
 

iauiugu

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I find it depends what you think mbti/jungian type actually is in the first place, like if its an a priori experience that inclines us towards certain preferences and behaviors before we are even conscious of them. if it type corresponds to something less innate, the further one gets from the point where type is 'real', the more complex and variant it becomes

I personally feel type has something to say from the pre-conscious to habits to big picture philosophical beliefs, but the further one gets from the brain, the less reliable type becomes as a system, because you begin to get more into the realm of conscious intent and environmental conditioning
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
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I always thought it was more than just preference. Behavior is just as much of an indicator as cognition, or at least so I've always thought. I don't think you have to particularly like feeling to be a feeler.

That would make sense for an ISTJ, with dominant Sensing, auxiliary Thinking and tertiary Feeling. The Sensing, as the dominant ego view, will be more sure, but the judgment functions might not necessarily be as clear. Jung actually once considered "two auxiliaries", and it leads to dispute as to what his type was, ("NiTi", TiNe, TiSe, etc).
"prefer scenarios where feeling is not needed/relevant" is the big clue. The "preference" is all about what the ego sees as more "relevant". So I'm not sure what you mean by "think somewhat like a feeler (and act like a fairly reserved one)", but that is certainly possible with Feeling as tertiary (which is described as often being the "relief" function).

It's interesting that the both of you appear to be advocating almost opposite concets.

The way in which I think and act like a feeler is that I do take feeling into consideration when making decisions. But I don't solely base all of my decisions on feeling. Quite franly, I don't understand how people don't use a combination of both (unless in cases where feeling is irrelevant like mathematics, etc.).

Thats actually one way i have been using to determine type. I am the same in that my T/F is a huge difference. But i navigate between N and S alot. They do good balance each other out in support of what Ti builds.

Both you and Eric have the same view on this. And I had that sort of an idea as well. That is, a person's first function will dictate which dichotomy, S/N or T/F, that they are more confident in in themselves. (Example: INFPs will be most confident in feeling over thinking, but less so in intuition over sensing.) I even made a thread about it once that included a poll. The problem with this was that people's typings and the confidence of the specific aspects of their type did not line up with this theory. I suppose it could be that a large percentage of the people commenting were not typed correctly, but I don't know.
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
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I find it depends what you think mbti/jungian type actually is in the first place, like if its an a priori experience that inclines us towards certain preferences and behaviors before we are even conscious of them. if it type corresponds to something less innate, the further one gets from the point where type is 'real', the more complex and variant it becomes

I personally feel type has something to say from the pre-conscious to habits to big picture philosophical beliefs, but the further one gets from the brain, the less reliable type becomes as a system, because you begin to get more into the realm of conscious intent and environmental conditioning

I mean, I equate type to personality. Everyone has natural tendencies in personality that may differ from one another, but experience also plays a huge role in the development in one's personality. So I do not agree with those that say that type is completely solidified before you are even born.

I'm not quite sure what you mean in the second paragraph, though.
 

Yama

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It's interesting that the both of you appear to be advocating almost opposite concets.

The way in which I think and act like a feeler is that I do take feeling into consideration when making decisions. But I don't solely base all of my decisions on feeling. Quite franly, I don't understand how people don't use a combination of both (unless in cases where feeling is irrelevant like mathematics, etc.).

I mean, I don't like being an ISFJ, but that doesn't mean I'm not an ISFJ. And of course I take logic into consideration when I make decisions. In the end though, when it comes to that final decision, I am more uncomfortable going against my feelings than I am with doing something potentially illogical.
 

/DG/

silentigata ano (profile)
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I mean, I don't like being an ISFJ, but that doesn't mean I'm not an ISFJ. And of course I take logic into consideration when I make decisions. In the end though, when it comes to that final decision, I am more uncomfortable going against my feelings than I am with doing something potentially illogical.

It's not about disliking a type. It's about disliking things that a type should like.. I am far more comfortable and enjoy situations that do not involve feeling (or at least, Fe-related things).

I am uncomfortable in both illogical things and hurting others feelings. Which one I will dislike more is highly dependent on the specific scenario. Logic does not always come first, but neither do feelings.

And I like ISFJs. :heart:
 

Yama

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It's not about disliking a type. It's about disliking things that a type should like.. I am far more comfortable and enjoy situations that do not involve feeling (or at least, Fe-related things).

I am uncomfortable in both illogical things and hurting others feelings. Which one I will dislike more is highly dependent on the specific scenario. Logic does not always come first, but neither do feelings.

And I like ISFJs. :heart:

Oh yeah, I mean, if I subscribed to all the Fe things that stereotypes would dictate I'm supposed to like, I'd be a completely different person. I also don't like handling other people's feelings (especially face to face... over the internet is more bearable). But, my Fe is also broken so like, who knows.
 

cascadeco

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What about actions, thoughts, and behavior? Do those ever come into play? Surely both must have some relevancy and it wouldn't be right to completely ignore either of these, right?.

My opinion is that actions and behavior are insanely important to our personality, who we are, our character. The actions we take (or don't take) say a lot about our values, how we view other other people, what we find important to do and pursue, or not do. (example, the infp who values peace and harmony, teamwork. and sees the good in everyone will be much different behaviorally than the infp who is more cynical and doesn't place value in being 'nice' to people)

But mbti is ultimately about preference. Sure, I can DO and think in intuitive terms, I can work in 'thinking' oriented jobs, I can behave in more 'J' manner (and was raised to do so), but ultimately I prefer, am at ease, and am far less stressed, honoring ISFP preferences.
 

Punderstorm

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Preference, why else does the official Mbti test use terms like moderate preference or strong preference? There's more to it though, but it's mainly focused on preference.
 

Personality Analyst

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Example:
My S/N divide has always been totally clear. I act, think like, and behave as a sensor. But in looking at the T/F divide, I behave like and prefer two different ways. I seem to think somewhat like a feeler (and act like a fairly reserved one), yet I prefer thinking scenarios. That is, I prefer scenarios where feeling is not needed/relevant.

I'm an IxTJ so maybe I could provide an approximate example for the second part of your question. I have a strong tertiary Fi function, and like you I don't like harming people either and take care not to. My internal world is exactly as you mentioned, due to the Ni-Fi combo and Fi also serves as a moral compass in my decision making. However, I amn't comfortable with wholly relying on Fi for decisions (in other words, relying solely on the emotional importance I attach to things). It's this unease with it that makes me a clear thinker.

A good way to find out which perspective (T or F) more naturally inclined to think from, observe yourself when stressed and under pressure, which do you instinctively default to?

In my case, I default to shutting out Fi unless Ni-Te deems its input relevant to the issue. Principles and pragmatism come first almost always.
 

iauiugu

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I mean, I equate type to personality. Everyone has natural tendencies in personality that may differ from one another, but experience also plays a huge role in the development in one's personality. So I do not agree with those that say that type is completely solidified before you are even born.

I'm not quite sure what you mean in the second paragraph, though.

Oh sorry I didn't mean to imply that type is in-born, but even if it were it wouldn't undermine the diversity of people based on their unique life experiences. i don't know of any two people of a type i feel are that similar, comparing their type to their overall vibe and personhood.

tbh I'm thinking less of mbti than the cognitive functions, as i find the mbti categories to be too abstract for real life -- no one doesn't think of feel sometime or the other, and one's rationale behind their typed characteristics can be wrong. cognitive functions seem more specific.

in the second paragraph i was thinking of mbti and cog functions unconventionally... how i see an affinity between libertarianism and progressives, their focus on free exploration and self-expression, technological advancement for liberation from material constraints
and behaviors attributed to those with dominant extroverted intuition, and their gift for transcontextual perception and championing novel visions of revolutionary possibilities

in the spirit of "is there more to it" in the title of the thread.. again i stretched the bounds a bit
 

Poki

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It's interesting that the both of you appear to be advocating almost opposite concets.

The way in which I think and act like a feeler is that I do take feeling into consideration when making decisions. But I don't solely base all of my decisions on feeling. Quite franly, I don't understand how people don't use a combination of both (unless in cases where feeling is irrelevant like mathematics, etc.).



Both you and Eric have the same view on this. And I had that sort of an idea as well. That is, a person's first function will dictate which dichotomy, S/N or T/F, that they are more confident in in themselves. (Example: INFPs will be most confident in feeling over thinking, but less so in intuition over sensing.) I even made a thread about it once that included a poll. The problem with this was that people's typings and the confidence of the specific aspects of their type did not line up with this theory. I suppose it could be that a large percentage of the people commenting were not typed correctly, but I don't know.

That is where sometimes you have to believe theory because people can only give you the truth they believe. If you look at how some people think they go off of what makes sense...aka logically possible...and that becomes truth because its not false....per se. So when you ask them a question they are heavily steered by what someone else has said to the point where they dont actually think much or do much analysis. Its why i dont trust others typing of themselves fully. I try to figure out how objective and subjecive relate. Its a slow process, but much more accurate then just one or the other. Think of t as everyhing is true..how and why
 

ZNP-TBA

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What about actions, thoughts, and behavior? Do those ever come into play? Surely both must have some relevancy and it wouldn't be right to completely ignore either of these, right?

I agree they are relevant because a person's behavior is what we can readily observe since no one is a mind reader. But behavior and actions can be tricky too since one's current mental state can influence their immediate behavior and the actions they take and that current mental state may not be indicative of the person's 'overall' cognition. It's extremely hard to type on the internet because there is so little information to go on besides what a person tells you. You lack the insight of years of experience with a person to really decipher anything.

I'm asking this because I've realized that this is probably one of the biggest reasons why I have never been 100% certain of my type.

Self evaluation is tough. Best thing I can recommend is relate ideas of Jungian typology to people who know you well in your real life and listen to their feedback so you have more to work with. Sometimes the way we perceive ourselves isn't what we actually are.

Example:
My S/N divide has always been totally clear. I act, think like, and behave as a sensor. But in looking at the T/F divide, I behave like and prefer two different ways. I seem to think somewhat like a feeler (and act like a fairly reserved one), yet I prefer thinking scenarios. That is, I prefer scenarios where feeling is not needed/relevant.

This is why immediate behavior and actions are not wholly reliable either. Again, try to relate typology ideas to people who know you well and try to get some feedback.
 

Evo

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What about actions, thoughts, and behavior? Do those ever come into play? Surely both must have some relevancy and it wouldn't be right to completely ignore either of these, right?

I'm asking this because I've realized that this is probably one of the biggest reasons why I have never been 100% certain of my type.

Example:
My S/N divide has always been totally clear. I act, think like, and behave as a sensor. But in looking at the T/F divide, I behave like and prefer two different ways. I seem to think somewhat like a feeler (and act like a fairly reserved one), yet I prefer thinking scenarios. That is, I prefer scenarios where feeling is not needed/relevant.

You're a 6. It explains everything IMO.
 

Norrsken

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Preferences, at least, from a cognitive standpoint. I think this is why I am slowly becoming impatient with tests that rely strictly on behaviors or daily actions of a person and not so much of how they process and react to certain information. There is also a point of someone's maturity level, or even mental health status, since a depressed person may take on certain characteristics that deflect their true type.
 

Eric B

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The way in which I think and act like a feeler is that I do take feeling into consideration when making decisions. But I don't solely base all of my decisions on feeling. Quite franly, I don't understand how people don't use a combination of both (unless in cases where feeling is irrelevant like mathematics, etc.).
Everyone is supposed to do both, and again, the difference is the "ego-states" associate with the observations or decisions made witht he function. Te would be more confident and serious, while Fi would be more vulnerable and a form of relief.
Both you and Eric have the same view on this. And I had that sort of an idea as well. That is, a person's first function will dictate which dichotomy, S/N or T/F, that they are more confident in in themselves. (Example: INFPs will be most confident in feeling over thinking, but less so in intuition over sensing.) I even made a thread about it once that included a poll. The problem with this was that people's typings and the confidence of the specific aspects of their type did not line up with this theory. I suppose it could be that a large percentage of the people commenting were not typed correctly, but I don't know.
Even though it's determined by the ego states, it is still subject to "clarity of "preference", and how conscious one is of the different ego states. The "hero" (dominant) is so second nature, you might not even be aware that you are preferring one function over the other, let alone that the preference is greater than that of the aux. over the tert.
 
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