[Si] Wherever you have Si in your stack of pancakes, how do you identify with it?

[Cloudpatrol]

Hey Dreamer,

I'm going through some old files and found this in papers I had saved. I have no idea where it came from (apologies to the author) but have often referred back to it and think you (@Enthusiastic_Dreamer) might gain value from it also. [MENTION=22178]hel[/MENTION] I am mentioning you also cuz of your post in this thread.

Here goes:

Many people, in learning about Si, often wonder about how Si and Ni are different because they function in very similar ways.


So let me just try to vomit out my thoughts a bit. And you (anyone) can let me know their thoughts

So my impression of Si is that it takes things very literally.


Anecdote:

If Si walks into a dark room, flips a light switch up, and sees that the light comes on, it will know that flipping the light switch up will probably turn the light on in the future since it did that in the past.

It doesn't know, however, what flipping the light switch down will do. Because it's never done that before. It could speculate about what might happen, but that's when Si starts to feel very uncomfortable and starts thinking of grand visions of gloom and doom. Si will want to study up on the effects of flipping light switches down and making preparations for all the things that could possibly go wrong before it moves forward and flips the light switch down.

If there isn't enough information available about the effects of flipping the light switch down, Si will not feel comfortable touching the light switch and will leave the light switch in the up (on) position until more information becomes available.

And once it is ready to flip the light switch down, it will do so. And then it will see that the light went off. And Si will make a mental note of this. "So when I flip the light switch up, I expect it will probably turn the light on since it did that last time. And when I flip the light switch down, it will turn the light off since it did that last time."

Si will keep these assumptions until something changes.

For example, if Si walks into this room on another day and the light is off and it tries flipping the light switch up, it may be be very surprised when the light doesn't come on. It will want to investigate this and will need to explore its past knowledge of why the light might not come on.

If it has no past knowledge, it's rather screwed. Si is going to need to call in some back up--an expert on lights. Si will need to read up on what others have to say about lights not coming on. And what might cause that.

And Si will learn that there are many possibilities for why a light might not come on. And this is really going to annoy Si because it has no previous knowledge of this situation to help it narrow down the possibilities.

So Si is really going to want to call in an electrician to fix the problem. Or painstakingly try out every possibility before it finds the one that fixes the problem.

If, however, Si does have past information about lights, then it will be in much better shape. Perhaps Si ran into a situation in the past in which the light didn't come on. And the problem was that the light bulb needed to be changed. Si will remember this when the light doesn't come on in the future, and will think "well, maybe the light bulb needs to be changed"--regardless of when the last time the light bulb was changed--and will try changing the bulb to see if it fixes the problem.

Si will start working on this problem right away and will not feel comfortable stopping until the problem is resolved. It will almost feel as though the broken light impedes on its peace of mind and comfort. And will want this problem resolved ASAP.


My impression of Ni is that it can be pretty terrible at taking things literally. Ni thinks it's smarter than the world. Ni makes predictions that aren't founded in reality--but rather that are inspired by reality and then are imbued with critical thinking that comes from the user.


Anecdote:


Ni walks into a dark room and flips a light switch up. It sees that this turns the light on.

Ni will see this and immediately "know" that flipping the light switch down will turn the light off, as that makes the most intuitive sense.

So Ni will flip the light switch down. And is very excited to find out that it was right!

And so Ni will even indulge in this a bit and keep flipping the light switch up and down and watching the light do exactly what Ni expected it to do. Ni will feel really pleased about this.

Ni will come back on a different day and feel very confident in its ability to turn the light on and off, and so will walk into the dark room and flip the switch up.

But if the light doesn't come on, then Ni is really confused. And maybe even a bit scared. Because an Ni without any previous knowledge of lights or electricity or about light bulbs or anything like that is probably going to assume that it was the reason that the light broke. It may think that by turning the light on and off so much, it caused the light to break and not turn on.

Ni may even start to feel really confident about this assumption. And may even think to have discovered something new about lights--you can't turn them on or off too much or else they'll break.

Ni will go through life without ever questioning this, really, unless it sees conflicting evidence (such as they know a friend who turns his light on and off all the time and it still works just fine). Once Ni is exposed to this, it will realize that it was wrong and that it needs to rethink its assumption. Before that, though, it will probably accept it unquestioningly.

Anyway, Ni may even decide that it doesn't need that room with the broken light and will go find another room with a light in it. Yes, Ni will just leave the problem as it is. And feels totally fine not fixing it. Actually, it prefers to not fix it because Ni hates having to interact with and affect its environment. And prefers to just ignore it for as long as it can get away with.

If the room with the broken light is one of thousands of available rooms to choose from, Ni will keep going through room after room until all of them except for one have a broken light.

Then Ni will start to feel really pressured into solving this problem. Because it knows that its time is ticking away.. and that soon all the rooms will have broken lights and it will have no rooms left to use.

So Ni will learn about this issue finally. And/or hire someone to fix it for them. Or teach them how so that they don't have to rely on anyone in the future and can just fix it themselves.

But, let's say Ni does have knowledge of previous electrical equipment. Say Ni has a refrigerator at home, and sometimes the light in the refrigerator doesn't work. Ni will see this and immediately see the connection between the refrigerator and the electrical circuit in this room--they both require electricity, and they both require light bulbs!

So Ni will sort of "know" immediately that the problem is caused by one of two things:
1. Electricity isn't reaching the light bulb.
2. The light bulb is defunct.

Despite being no expert whatsoever on light bulbs, electrical circuits, lighting, anything like this, it will still be able to narrow down the results via intuitively knowing what makes sense and what doesn't.

So it will start with the easier task--changing the light bulb--and see if that works. If it doesn't, it will have to get help from someone who can work with the electricity to fix it.

Ni without past knowledge of similar intuitive structures to the problem they're dealing with is going to be very screwed in the same way that Si without previous, detailed knowledge of the exact situation at hand is going to be very screwed.



In this way, you can see how Ni relies on the non-literal to get by, whereas Si relies on the literal.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

[MENTION=27162]Cloudpatrol[/MENTION] I never knew reading about a light switch could be so entertaining.

The thrust of your description is right on though. Si naturally deals with contingencies and preparation. In some sense it shows its clear relationship to Ne. It's sort of like Si tries to overcome Ne in the Si dom/aux Jungian type. Ne is the exploratory function. It wants to charge out into the world and see what potential is to be had. The Si dom actually wants to charge out there too. Even their inferior Ne is enough to grant them some kind of 'forward' momentum sort of like a river current. However dom Si is not to be unprepared for whatever hazards await. Si is kind of like the person that's built the specially fortified bunker complete with food and water rations for the zombie apocalypse. It understands, through Ne, the 'worst case' scenarios and wants to be prepared.

The problem with this of course is that they could be over-preparing for nothing or they could be spending too much time preparing that they 'miss' the event all together or that whatever they are preparing for has already changed. While Si excels at preparation and accumulating 360 knowledge about certain things it really struggles with adaptability. The higher the Ne is in the stack the better it can compensate and adapt but may find itself woefully unprepared for some overwhelming calamity. I think people with more balanced Ne-Si like INxPs and ESxJs are better equipped to manage both adaptability and preparation.

 

[Yama]

[MENTION=27162]Cloudpatrol[/MENTION] I never knew reading about a light switch could be so entertaining.

The thrust of your description is right on though. Si naturally deals with contingencies and preparation. In some sense it shows its clear relationship to Ne. It's sort of like Si tries to overcome Ne in the Si dom/aux Jungian type. Ne is the exploratory function. It wants to charge out into the world and see what potential is to be had. The Si dom actually wants to charge out there too. Even their inferior Ne is enough to grant them some kind of 'forward' momentum sort of like a river current. However dom Si is not to be unprepared for whatever hazards await. Si is kind of like the person that's built the specially fortified bunker complete with food and water rations for the zombie apocalypse. It understands, through Ne, the 'worst case' scenarios and wants to be prepared.

The problem with this of course is that they could be over-preparing for nothing or they could be spending too much time preparing that they 'miss' the event all together or that whatever they are preparing for has already changed. While Si excels at preparation and accumulating 360 knowledge about certain things it really struggles with adaptability. The higher the Ne is in the stack the better it can compensate and adapt but may find itself woefully unprepared for some overwhelming calamity. I think people with more balanced Ne-Si like INxPs and ESxJs are better equipped to manage both adaptability and preparation.

Agreed except for that I actually really don't want to "charge out there." It's very comfortable "in here."

I like to explore outside my comfort zone occasionally. When I feel safe doing so. I'll order the same food at the same restaurant every single time unless maybe I'm with a bunch of friends, we're all relaxed having a good time, I feel totally at ease, and then I might think, "You know what, fuck it. I'm gonna try this new food instead of the one I always get." And maybe I'll regret it and maybe I won't, but no one's forcing me to do so, and I feel free to go back to doing what I'm comfortable always doing if I decide it's not for me.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

I'm curious what all of you have to say about Si and what it means to you regardless of where it sits in your stack, how it plays with your other functions, and all that yummy stuff. What Zombie noted about inferior Ne users is that they have a rather negative view of Ne. Is this the same for everyone with their inferior function or is this just a case of bad Ne? But, no, let's stay on topic here shall we?

... So with Si as an inferior function, I definitely see it's valuable use and I do have an appreciation for it, but it's a place I can't hang out in for too long if I want to stay the best version of me that I can.

Hey Dreamer, I found this resource immensely helpful. Hope you enjoy it

How Functions Work: Inferior Si (ENTP/ENFP)

The inferior function is the hardest to understand and describe. It embodies the part of us that we are least accepting of. Although we are often unaware of its activities, it would be inaccurate to describe the inferior function as “weak” because all of our core functions are powerful in their own way. The power and force of the inferior function actually comes from the mistaken assumption that it has no power. We underestimate the inferior function at our own peril.

The Role of the Inferior Function

As you develop, it is natural to become more dependent on the dominant function and unwittingly repress the inferior function in order to give the dominant function as much conscious control over life as possible. However, the dominant function cannot handle reality on its own without feeling increasingly overextended as you push it to the upper limits of its strengths while turning a blind eye to its weaknesses. As you press down harder on the inferior function and resist its perspective, it will gradually feel too constricted and its repressed energy will begin to “leak" into your conscious mind in the form of inexplicable urges or compulsions, especially when you feel frustrated or emotionally vulnerable.

When you rely too heavily on the dominant function for extended periods of time, the functions below it cannot work in a healthy way, and the inferior function remains deeply submerged in the unconscious mind as you keep repressing that perspective in favor of the dominant function. As the dominant function becomes stretched beyond its capabilities, you will feel increasingly stressed because there will be many life problems that you cannot handle with such a narrow and limited perspective. When life stress depletes your focus and mental energy to critical levels, the dominant function will “burn out” and cause you to lose control of yourself, and this then allows the primitive impulses of the inferior function to “erupt” from the unconscious and take over your conscious mind, a.k.a. being “in the grip” of your inferior function. The degree of reactivity of the inferior function will be related to the force with which you repress its activities. Because the inferior function’s view of the world is the opposite of what you are used to, you will unconsciously resist that perspective even as it floods your consciousness. This results in a distorted view of reality and the weaknesses or destructive side of that function will manifest. By releasing the pent up energy of the inferior function, you can find some temporary relief from stress; however, the extreme out-of-character or destructive behaviors that arise can often exacerbate the problems that were causing the stress to begin with, which can potentially create a negative pattern of destructive behavior.

According to function theory, the psyche is a self-balancing mechanism. When the inferior function erupts, it is sending you a message informing you that your psyche is out of balance because you are directing most of your mental energy to the dominant function. This means that there is a positive side to the inferior function in terms of telling us where we need to grow and improve in order to rebalance ourselves. Learning to use the inferior function appropriately will recalibrate energy distribution so that your psyche can establish better equilibrium. Therefore, instead of repressing the inferior function, we should gradually learn to be more aware of it and less resistant towards it. Although you cannot use the inferior function as your main approach to life like a dominant function, you can learn to respect it for its strength and power. As you come to understand the value of the inferior function and the advantages it can bring you in daily life, its power to disrupt your conscious mind will gradually fade. You will then gain a new perspective for understanding life, which will lead to more adaptive and effective behaviors.

Inferior Si

Ne-doms can use Si consciously for tasks that require categorizing sensory or physical details. For instance, when practicing a skill, one needs to learn methodically and remember mistakes in detail in order to improve one’s performance over time. However, since Si is the opposing force to Ne, Ne is very prone to overriding and repressing Si and misunderstanding its fundamental nature. While Ne-doms can use Si in very simplistic ways, they cannot fathom using Si as a “main approach to life” like a dominant function, and therein lies the main source of psychological conflict.

Ne focuses on intuiting patterns in the external world in order to discover new ideas or possibilities, with an eye towards taking advantage of any good opportunity that presents itself and making continuous progress. When Ne-doms rely too heavily upon Ne, they will identify with Ne’s activities, using their creative openness to construct the foundation of their identity. Because of this, Ne will feel continually threatened by the Si perspective because Si has the potential to disrupt or shatter one’s ego-image. Si is focused on methodically collecting and sorting personally relevant facts/details in order to feel grounded in one’s own framework of prior knowledge. But Ne tends to misinterpret Si as being boring, overcautious, repetitive, or even stagnant and pointless. Ultimately, Ne forcefully rejects the Si perspective because it fears that getting bogged down in tiny details is wasting precious time that could otherwise be used for pursuing new possibilities or continual progress and, if one does not have trust in future potential, then one has nothing to look forward to in life, as though one’s sense of hopefulness is slowly draining away. Therefore, unhealthy or immature Ne-doms do their utmost to reject Si in order to protect their ego-image as an “optimistic, open, and forward thinking” person.

However, when Ne-doms rely too heavily upon Ne and suppress Si, they will develop an overly unrealistic and confused view of the world. Instead of using Si appropriately, Ne will use Si to collect “factual” evidence to confirm its own intuitions, premonitions, or ideas. In other words, Ne will develop a maladaptive tendency to misinterpret situations, misjudging the value of the possibilities they see and then entertaining paths that are impractical or unrealistic in expectations, thereby increasing the chances of failure. When Ne is not functioning in a healthy manner, Ne-doms will be more prone to: overlooking important details, making careless errors, failing to learn from past mistakes (and then repeating them), having poor focus, neglecting physical health, continually arriving at dead ends or abandoning ideas midstream. This will lead to a buildup of feelings of incompetence or worthlessness, especially when they are unable to make any concrete progress towards realizing their goals or ideals.

No function can be fully suppressed, so inferior Si will leak into consciousness in strange ways. Proper Si desires stability through utilizing personal knowledge to carefully sort through facts/details and is completely comfortable with seeing one’s reality as having clear structure, boundaries, and limitations. This can create an underlying sense of anxiety in Ne-doms because Ne fundamentally requires reality to have no boundaries or limits in order to maintain intuitive access to conceptual possibilities. Thus, when Ne becomes overextended, Ne-doms may exhibit somewhat desperate attempts to avoid acknowledging details and personal limitations so that they can feel continually connected to the world of possibility and defend against the restrictive and disciplined nature of Si. For example, they might: present themselves as “experts” and fool themselves into thinking that they have all the facts and details, exude a false air of competence through nitpicking or obsessing over little details, reprimand or mock other people for overlooking minor details, rationalize away past mistakes or dismiss the usefulness of past learning/knowledge, suddenly feel exhausted when confronted with too many loose ends to take care of, endlessly jump from one idea/task to another when too many difficulties crop up, take on too many tasks at once, be unwilling to admit that they have stretched themselves too far, refuse to follow rules, ignore/resent advice to slow down and do things more carefully, and so on.

However, this means that Ne has not understood the real source of its own anxiety and so the underlying conflict remains unresolved. Ne sees Si as the “enemy” rather than as an important and helpful part of one’s own psyche. The longer this conflict between Ne and Si goes on, the greater the likelihood of succumbing to “the grip”. Ne might try to resist a grip experience by looking for an external scapegoat for its stress and suffering. Not wanting to turn a critical eye on itself, Ne will blame the outside world for its own failure to engage with Si, e.g., by faulting situational factors like lack of time/resources or accusing other people of being unsupportive. On one hand, Ne-doms crave connection with the Si world and unconsciously desire the inner stability, detailed expertise, and methodical focus that the best Si-doms can achieve; on the other hand, they resent themselves for this desire and become defensive by creating a self-pitying mindset, believing that their “great” ideas/visions are doomed to go unrealized, all the while ignoring the real problem. The more they resist acknowledging important details and personal limitations, the more they will feel lost and exhausted and continually confronted by practical concerns.

Ne-doms can be emotionally triggered in a variety of ways, such as: being judged as having no substance or depth, being seen as unreliable or incompetent, feeling unprepared for an important event or task, having their knowledge of facts doubted by others, being called out for being careless or overlooking details, having to deal with too many details or small practical/logistical matters for a long period of time, dealing with bureaucratic red tape, having a personal value disregarded or violated, being overwhelmed by work, slogging through long periods of repetitive/procedural work, dealing with excessive routine/rules/restrictions/structure, feeling a lack of change/variety, tight deadlines or onerous supervision, lack of intellectual or environmental stimulation, working alone for long periods, being surrounded by negative or apathetic people, working in a poorly managed environment where people do not appreciate ideas for improvement or progress.

When they become stressed and mentally fatigued to the point where Ne can no longer maintain its dominance, unhealthy Si urges will finally erupt from the unconscious, driving Ne-doms to surrender to Si in a negative or destructive manner. The ways in which these psychological urges manifest behaviorally are often unique to the individual and the circumstances. They tend to lose touch with the world of possibilities and, instead, become pessimistic, withdrawn, inflexible, or obsessed about insignificant details. They might: suffer depression or despair, feel emotionally vulnerable and isolated and unappreciated, become unable to verbalize their thoughts or feelings, have difficulty finding pleasure in any activity, get highly irritable or pedantic or finicky, develop tunnel vision and hyperfocus on one task or detail, obsess about completing tasks and feel irrationally pressed for time, develop compulsive behavior in counting or organizing things, feel overwhelmed with trying to make every little detail perfect or relevant, desperately overanalyze past events/mistakes to find reasons/solutions for their present mood or use past events to justify a negative outlook of the future. Being unused to directing so much attention inwardly, they tend to select details inappropriately, often grabbing hold of a negative thought and projecting it into a future of perpetual melancholy. The inward focus also makes them oversensitive to bodily sensations, with a tendency to misinterpret or exaggerate every minor ache as a sign of grave illness or disease. Ultimately, they lose their motivation and enthusiasm for life, feeling lost or hopeless or adrift.

In order to properly avoid a grip experience, it is essential that Ne-doms learn the real value of the Si perspective and the advantages it can confer. For Ne-doms, successfully emerging from a grip experience usually requires some solitude and reflection. Warm support from others, rather than advice or judgment, can usually help to ameliorate their emotions. Since they have a tendency to neglect their physical health, it might help to nurture physical needs like eating well and getting enough sleep and exercise. Ne-doms can also find some peace of mind by utilizing productive Si-related activities that require a positive focus on monitoring physical sensations and mental well-being. Whatever activities are chosen, they should accomplish two goals:

to release and expend Si energy in a way that consciously emphasizes its worth and usefulness, rather than resisting Si or desperately using it to overcompensate for one’s anxieties
to decrease the dominance of Ne, thereby allowing it to relax and regain its natural optimism and enthusiasm for new possibilities
Because access to the inferior function is extremely difficult to achieve due to its opposing nature, the auxiliary function must also be used to relieve psychological pressure whenever possible:

ENTPs can use Ti-related activities to improve their ability to analyze situations and sort out their personal priorities (in order to stay grounded in careful reason and knowledge).
ENFPs can use Fi-related activities to improve their ability to prioritize tasks that promote personal development and well-being (in order to stay grounded in personal/moral values).
Ongoing type-related development for Ne-doms:

work on maintaining a broader perspective when your mood is low
appreciate that attention to facts/details helps you to avoid careless mistakes and create more feasible plans
understand that, rather than slowing you down, taking time to focus, think, and plan more carefully actually increases your chance of success or achievement
use Si consciously to concentrate on the details of a situation/task
use Si adaptively by learning to sequence information (improve your organization and time management skills)
use Si to support Ne by understanding how details can enrich your understanding of life, e.g., appreciating how the events of your past have made you who you are today
avoid anxiety by remembering to treat negative thoughts as one of many possibilities
avoid hypochondria or illness by fostering a more routine lifestyle with regular and healthy habits
spend more time developing the details of your inner vision before jumping impulsively into situations
try to find completion before moving on to a new idea
take responsibility for your mistakes and work to improve upon them
reflect on how your relentless need to chase ideas/possibilities affects you and the people around you
make efforts to genuinely understand and build up the natural strengths of Si; observe healthy Si-doms and learn to appreciate their style
envision, recall, or experience real-life scenarios where Si is more capable or effective than Ne at handling reality, so that you can learn to consciously and comfortably choose the most adaptive behaviors
See the Developing Your Functions post for more tips

How Functions Work: Inferior Si (ENTP/ENFP) - Exploring Cognitive Function Theory