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MBTI is almost useless

redacted

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Nov 28, 2007
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4,223
Finally, in the last few months, I've begun to understand MBTI. There are no logical inconsistencies in my understanding, and I can break down any behavior into functions. The problem is, there is always more than one way to describe a behavior from a functional standpoint. Ne, Fi, Te, Si can solve the same problem that Se, Ti, Fe, Ni can solve. They can explain their thought processes in the same way.

I've mistyped a few of my friends -- for example, I thought one of my friends was ENFP since I met her, and I recently realized she was ENTP. But during our entire friendship, I felt like I completely understood her and her thought processes. I could predict her reactions to other people, to ideas...I "got" her as well as I got anyone (and I pride myself on ability to deeply connect with/understand people). And I thought she was ENFP at the time. The thing is, once I realized she was ENTP, absolutely nothing about my understanding of her changed. The same is true of my INFP friend that I thought was ENFP. Same with my ENTP friend I thought was ESTP.

I can completely connect with people (almost on par with therapists), and I essentially don't use the MBTI framework at all in doing so. If anything, it's hindered my ability since I'm losing information trying to shove an irregular shape into a regular-shaped-hole.

MBTI has practically no application in my life. The only thing I can think of is that it may be helpful for me to explain one person's behavior to another person. Even then, it's a gross oversimplification of total behavior. It says nothing about specific motivation. And honestly, even in using the framework to explain people to each other, I feel that I'm leading them down the wrong path. It certainly isn't enough...
 

iwakar

crush the fences
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May 2, 2007
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sx/sp
So you don't feel it has an application for the teaching field? More specifically, as curriculum for teachers?
 

Jack Flak

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I approve of this thread. It's only useful if it's useful for you. Abandon it, and don't look back.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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If you ask me the only thing that can work in MBTI are those four letters and their strenght. All those function stuff and deep things are nonsense.
 

Jack Flak

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If you ask me the only thing that can work in MBTI are those four letters and their strenght. All those function stuff and deep things are nonsense.
QFT although my stance is that the "templates," aka types, mean more than the sum of the preference choices.
 

sleepless

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81
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INFJ
Damn it, I can really relate to your post and in a way I think you are right ><

Still, I would like to consider this from an MBTI perspective: We are both INFJs, and with NiFe we can gain a penetrating understanding of other people that transcends any words and categorizations. But with the Tertiary Temptation, the tendency to fall back on our Ti, we can lose this connection and start typing people categorically instead, for no use. You describe yourself as NiTi, which I find a bit alarming to be honest... We need to stay out of Ti; the third function is nothing you need to "strengthen", rather as you say, it should mostly be used to explain things to others.

Finally, in the last few months, I've begun to understand MBTI. There are no logical inconsistencies in my understanding, and I can break down any behavior into functions. The problem is, there is always more than one way to describe a behavior from a functional standpoint. Ne, Fi, Te, Si can solve the same problem that Se, Ti, Fe, Ni can solve. They can explain their thought processes in the same way.

This I would like to have explained, if you care to...
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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...This I would like to have explained, if you care to...

Yes, more actual discussion and explanation and less, "Oh, you're so right!" and "Oh, you are too!" and "Oh, we are so right, together -- group huggies" would be more informative and useful. ;)
 

redacted

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So you don't feel it has an application for the teaching field? More specifically, as curriculum for teachers?

It is useful in a macro sense, but applying it to individuals almost guarantees misapplication (unless you are extraordinarily careful, but then you're narrowing your scope so much that you end up not saying much).

If you ask me the only thing that can work in MBTI are those four letters and their strenght. All those function stuff and deep things are nonsense.

I completely disagree. Staying on the level of dichotomies makes misapplication even more likely. Thinking versus Feeling? What a joke. You end up putting things against each other that aren't actually in opposition.
 

Jack Flak

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Yes, more actual discussion and explanation and less, "Oh, you're so right!" and "Oh, you are too!" and "Oh, we are so right, together -- group huggies" would be more informative and useful. ;)
*Tommy Chong* So much negative energy, maannnn. Carpe diem.
 

redacted

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You describe yourself as NiTi, which I find a bit alarming to be honest... We need to stay out of Ti; the third function is nothing you need to "strengthen", rather as you say, it should mostly be used to explain things to others.

I describe myself as NiTi because in terms of dichotomies I am more of a Thinker than a Feeler (Using the four letters separately, I am INTJ). Thinking is necessary to put bounds on our unbounded internal vision, unless you want the only bounds to be external Feeling sentiment...

See? I can talk MBTI all day, but it's a waste.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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*Tommy Chong* So much negative energy, maannnn. Carpe diem.

Sorry, i was just lonely cuz I was shut out of the lovin'.
Bitterness becomes me.

Time for martinis!
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
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Jun 6, 2008
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I completely disagree. Staying on the level of dichotomies makes misapplication even more likely. Thinking versus Feeling? What a joke. You end up putting things against each other that aren't actually in opposition.

What I should have said is that I think that function order in every type is not absolute. I think that people take this part too seriously.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
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I have a habit of typing people and try to quit from time to time because it can be as limiting as it can be helpful. What I have noticed particularly in groups that all think in terms of MBTI is that the same statements and behaviors are described and justified differently depending on the letter beside the person's name. This is amplified by internet communication because the non-verbal nuance can be imposed on the text to fit underlying assumptions.

Tempers
F's have tempers because they are emotional and express with feelings. They become overwhelmed and reason with their feelings which include anger.

T's have tempers because their emotional worlds are not fully developed or understood, so when they feel, they have trouble expressing and analyzing and end up in a temper.

Cool-headedness:
F's demonstrate unflappability because they are nice and pleasant.

T's demonstrate unflappability because they are detached and objective.

Rudeness:
F's are rude because they take everything personally and express in ways that are emotionally stirring.

T's are rude because they don't care about feelings.

Politeness:
F's are polite because they don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

T's are polite because they don't want to deal with emotional responses.
 

Lateralus

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Yes, more actual discussion and explanation and less, "Oh, you're so right!" and "Oh, you are too!" and "Oh, we are so right, together -- group huggies" would be more informative and useful. ;)
Some of us have discussed this 1000 times already. ;)
 

redacted

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What I should have said is that I think that function order in every type is not absolute. I think that people take this part too seriously.

Yes. They do take it too seriously. People see 'F' in my type and think of me as somehow a worse Thinker.

Again, MBTI is useful on a large scale -- when you are looking at groups. But you run into problems applying it to individuals. How many times do you see people say "one of us" or "we" when talking about members of their type? It's nonsense.
 

redacted

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
4,223
I have a habit of typing people and try to quit from time to time because it can be as limiting as it can be helpful. What I have noticed particularly in groups that all think in terms of MBTI is that the same statements and behaviors are described and justified differently depending on the letter beside the person's name. This is amplified by internet communication because the non-verbal nuance can be imposed on the text to fit underlying assumptions.

Tempers
F's have tempers because they are emotional and express with feelings. They become overwhelmed and reason with their feelings which include anger.

T's have tempers because their emotional worlds are not fully developed or understood, so when they feel, they have trouble expressing and analyzing and end up in a temper.

Cool-headedness:
F's demonstrate unflappability because they are nice and pleasant.

T's demonstrate unflappability because they are detached and objective.

Rudeness:
F's are rude because they take everything personally and express in ways that are emotionally stirring.

T's are rude because they don't care about feelings.

Politeness:
F's are polite because they don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

T's are polite because they don't want to deal with emotional responses.

Thank you. People just take an interpretation that fits into their framework, except that it isn't their own framework, it's someone else's. They stop thinking for themselves.

Confirmation bias cannot be overcome. We should stop trying to fight it. The people who think they've won out over it are the worst...
 

Jack Flak

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Yes. They do take it too seriously. People see 'F' in my type and think of me as somehow a worse Thinker.
I admit it. But not the actual ability of thinking, the way the F will disregard thinking. :devil:
 

sleepless

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Jul 30, 2008
Messages
81
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INFJ
I describe myself as NiTi because in terms of dichotomies I am more of a Thinker than a Feeler (Using the four letters separately, I am INTJ). Thinking is necessary to put bounds on our unbounded internal vision, unless you want the only bounds to be external Feeling sentiment...
Hm... you think? Maybe I'm naive, but I just see Ti as something that gets in the way... but I haven't made up my mind yet completely.

See? I can talk MBTI all day, but it's a waste.
*sigh* I know. But somehow I'm still caught up in the illusion of it, it's like I need to get done with it first, but then hopefully I can let go of it and come and join you on the other side. ;)
 
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