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  1. #1
    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    Default ZNP's bad analysis of two economic theories and it's relation to MBTI (NTJ vs NTP)

    ZNP's convoluted analysis of two economic theories and it's relation to the INTJ vs INTP personality type. Keynes(NTJ) vs Hayek(NTP).

    But first two entertaining videos illustrating the difference between the NTJ and NTP mindset:





    First I just want to say that an (I)NTJ or (I)NTP isn't determined to favor either of these systems but rather this is a combination of economic information and personality analysis by seeing how Keynes & Hayek represent their respective points. The actors in these videos draw directly from the real-life personalities and writings from the two economists.

    Let's examine the lyrics from each type and see how this relates to functions:

    The hook:

    [Keynes] I want to steer markets,
    [Hayek] I want them set free
    There’s a boom and bust cycle and good reason to fear it
    Blame low interest rates
    [Keynes] No… it’s the animal spirits

    Even in the hook we see the NTJ vs NTP difference.

    Keynes shows a Te preference by wanting to DO something in order to achieve a result he predicts (steer markets) and attributes the reason to being 'animal spirits' (This is typically referred to as Bear and Bull market which is directly attributable to Keynes). The 'animal spirits' isn't literal of obviously but a manifestation of Keynes' Ni making symbolic associations. The 'bull' and the 'bear' 'animal spirits' symbolize the market's 'primal nature' that needs to be brought under control ( again, the NTJ drive to control their environment) by 'steering' the market.

    Conversely, Hayek shows a Ti preference by letting markets be 'free' so he can analyze their dynamics as they naturally unfold (Ti-Ne) and attributes his understanding to a THEORY of boom and bust driven by low interest rates ( a logical deduction based on the principles of the theory). Hayek (NTP) believed market principles were sound if left on their own. NTPs don't necessarily have a desire to manipulate the environment but rather observe it and draw conclusions based on (logical) principles derived from those observations.

    Interesting to note is the antagonism to the thinking style between Ti-Fe vs. Te-Fi. Both take fun pot shots at each other:P

    If you listen to the lyrics and read them it's clear that functions are at work here.

    John Papola and Russ Roberts – Fear the Boom and Bust (Hayek vs. Keynes) Lyrics | Genius

    John Papola – Fight of the Century: Keynes vs. Hayek Round Two Lyrics | Genius
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  2. #2
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default ZNP's bad analysis of two economic theories and it's relation to MBTI (NTJ vs...

    I like your work.

    The interesting thing for me as an INFP was noting via my visceral dominant perception that the phycology of both mind sets (NTJ vs NTP) seem to both be driven by an aggressive instinctual drive that ignores a hole inclusive instinctual awareness view point and in doing so, neglects the long term phycological basic ramifications of the dual mind sets that seem to be impersonal competitive personal aspiration lead driven agendas.

    The personal,. (Gut-Hart) &,. (Gut-Head) seem to be for the Keynes(NTJ) and Hayek(NTP) the shadow actions that fog the futility of the combined argument as being weath while as solution and correct economical market Prime Models.

    If I was to work with what is present on this topic page to find the solution I would tend to think that the uncommon common sense would be not 100% one or the other but for each view point to take its correct promotional portion within the solution.

    Perhaps what is needed as a start from each of the two schools of thought would be an aspiration to only be 5% each as a group contributions like shear towards the being Key motors within the market model and to allow the other 95% to integrate into the sound of the over all tone of the market model utilised by all for all as a synergetic instrument for collective prosperity and personal security and and sheared wealth.

    I think to my self what contribution would the other three letter driving forces contribute to the over all model or potential model?
    Last edited by KitchenFly; 03-20-2016 at 10:45 AM.
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    The human tl;dr Tactical Turtleneck's Avatar
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    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    I think to my self what contribution would the other three letter driving forces contribute to the over all model or potential model?
    Just of the top of my head,

    STP : Like the NTP is going to want to understand through observation and draw logical inferences but instead of abstracting an observation into potentialities they are going to want to directly observe practical effects in real time. The NTJ has this direct observation as well but they'd rather be associative from that particular analysis rather than focus wholly on the matter at hand.

    NFP: Like the NTP they will have a more multifaceted view and consider all potentialities of a given observation. But they are more similar to the NTJs when it comes to evaluating that information with a preference at looking at how any system effects individuals personally (including themselves) rather than what objective variables can be altered such as price controls or more liberalization of the price mechanism to test a hypothesis. NFPs would probably be concerned with the intangible human psychological factor I think.
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    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default ZNP's bad analysis of two economic theories and it's relation to MBTI (NTJ vs...

    STJ : Can posess an interest in building a sustainable framework for sustainability for a proactive creation of wealth, for the personal needs of self and or for the building of wealth and capital growth to service all practical needs in a sustainable manner to meet the practical and symbiotic needs of the common unity or selfs aspirations. The SFP has the individual or other(s) in forefront of mind an image of selfs ability(s) proficiency agility to achieve for self, organisation, or team can lead the proactivity of the individual to seek to work build and achieve. Individualism Team and Tribe influence the aspirations of the individual primary motive focusing I&E as if valuing the sensed and or sensing values, is a (goal) preoccupation, of the SFP.

    STP : May have an objective goal to exploit the potential earning of, or a similar like work agenda, for the maximum potential in the service of an organisations aspirational goals or for the selfs own entrepreneurial spirit and personal goals or idealised out comes desired to meet an inner need of achievement gained, satisfied. The SFJ has an orientation toward self-being a powerful agent with the know how to do to influence and direct for the good of the individual the collective the organisation. Beginning and completing (activity) starting and finishing (sequencing), can be a fixation of attention within the focused orientation of the I&E as if sensing values needed and valuing the sensed perceived (for the right action), is a preoccupation of the SFJ.
    Last edited by KitchenFly; 03-20-2016 at 09:48 AM.
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    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    STJ: STJs are going only going to want to put forth economic theories which mesh well with both their subjective understanding of 'common sense' and stability and which can be subject to rigorous empirical testing to extrapolate as much objectively verifiable data has humanly possible. As far as empirical validation goes they are in the same boat as the NTJs but differ in their understanding of the system as a whole. This is kind of like two electricians using the same tools to get the job done but each one has a different idea on how the wiring would be optimal. STJs are going to be aware of various economic patterns extrapolated from previously gathered data (Ne) but then are going to carefully select elements of these patterns that make the most sense to them (Si) and simultaneously begin excluding data which they see as problematic (Si ruling over Ne) i.e. "prepare." STJs might favor a system that has 'credentials' from prior experience and will not be too enthusiastic about changing things that 'work.' STJs will want to tweak details of an existing system rather than overhauling something completely like an NTP or NTJ. Economic reform.

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    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    I think ENTP's with a Sp/So instinct may strive to build a economic model that promotes savings growth for economical security striving to distance business from credit and and finances being in the red.

    I think ENTJ with a Sp/So instinct may also strive to build an economic model that is common sense based promoting savings for personal security family comfort and community stability.

    I think the problem with these two types is that they are happy to out comet and out smart for personal gain. This limit within both the ENTP and ENTJ's overall morality contradicts there there mind set as being sound and wise because family doesn't extend beyond subordinates serving there business interests.

    The competitiveness within competition predominates the logical thinking and there idealism generated via there a capacity to understand best practise and they are happiest taking the biggest shear of the pie they can advantage the selves to earn from another via positive and negative statistical manipulations.
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  9. #9
    What Is Life? RobinSkye's Avatar
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    Interesting. While I have made note of the likely cognitive preferences of these economists, I actually think I agree more with Keynes' theory. I think it needs some amount of regulation. Control is good.
    Ti = Ne > Ni > Si > Te = Fi > Se > Fe
    5w4 - 4w3 - 1w9
    Chaotic-True Neutral.

    My Socionics test result: http://www.sociotype.com/tests/resul....V8bh7vuL.dpuf
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  10. #10
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default ZNP's bad analysis of two economic theories and it's relation to MBTI (NTJ vs NTP)

    I'm a believer in the Idea, but sadly people in general aren't interested in the ideal. They may say wow that's a good idea but shortly after they realise it just won't work and of course that are correct.

    I think it will take a long time for the human race to physiologically develop before we or should I say they work as a team.

    I would add that one thing at least is required is a fifth core subject within the scholastic system, math, English/language, science, Social studies, and (a who am I like subject that teaches a holistic view of type -selfs and other and to teach paths of synergy between all 18 basic subtypes of witch we all are one of.

    But fat chance of that happening until we have one imperial globule political system and economical centralised system.

    Vice corruption and the darker side of the human nature is beefed to be necessary to compete and service the general basic needs of most.

    I know that enough insight is already at hand and such an educational model could successfully be rolled out and extended to the scholastic system but there is no political aperture or will for such an action and if an individual is to take steps to implement such a framework of education or such a model then they are watch and investigated as if a threat to the state and the established order.

    I know this to be so because I filed a provisional patent some eighteen years ago and I was closely put under the microscope and was block at every tern to advance forward including undertaking education to study phycology so I could advance my model, there were almost more undercover operatives in the small bridging class within the class room than real students. I kid you nought.

    It was not until several years later after deciding to deregister my provisional patent that the passive harassment and severance stopped taking place.

    It was an interesting process I learnt much about the state and the shadow side of the state and at times the challenge was quite amusing. Thanks to the law of three and greater nature things always flowed to my favour.

    But that the way it is human nature is influenced by the intropic force, entropy is the Achilles heal of the human condition.

    So if we perish as a global couture within the next hundred or so years and been out our atmosphere so it as like Venues from globule warming then so be it or should I say Amen, it was the will of man.

    Lol

    What a bunch of fuck wits we are!
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