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[Ti] How do you understand Ti?

CitizenErased

Clean Slate
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
552
Nothing gets passed me without some.sort of analysis.To me the world is a giant puzzle that I must learn to figure out.

I think it works like this. I'm often trying to understand the difference with Fi, since for me, my internal system of thought constructs my "feely" principles... only that with no feelings at all. I analyze an idea, a comment, etc, and if I find it to be true or interesting, if it has something that makes me wonder endlessly, I store it. If not, it's immediately discarded and I'll never remember it again. Well, not immediately, just after saying out loud "nope", "you're wrong", "pffff", snoring or smiling malevolently.

But everything that happens around me is scanned, divided in bits (think of it like Legos) and then rebuilt in a logical way. If there's a piece that doesn't fit, the whole bag of Lego-bits is thrown to the recycle bin and deleted forever.

For INTPs is a bit difficult, I guess, because together with Ne, every Lego has a question, a fun fact or a "what if" (with its subsequent questions, fun facts or "what ifs", with their subseq...), so in reality, each Lego is actually 40 Legos, and the complete idea becomes a monster.
 
Last edited:

Forever

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
8,551
MBTI Type
NiFi
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
[MENTION=5639]JocktheMotie[/MENTION]

I knew not many people would receive well to it. Hence the sorry. I know the community I gotchu

It's amazing people like crude things in subtle ways than plain shown. Makes no sense even among the unreligious.
 

jamaikai

New member
Joined
May 7, 2014
Messages
13
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7?
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Ti is like a movie where the user is the director, you use it to deliever a message/explanation by creating an allegory/metaphor/analogy. That's when it's mixed with Ne at least. ISTP examples is Simon Cowells comparisons where he insults contestant on X factor and there's Woody Allens explanations of how he sees life in his films. (If they are ISTPs though, I think they are) :bye::smile:;):dry::shrug:
 

Bush

cute lil war dog
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
5,182
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Alright, let's have a go. I can't explain any of this without tying in perceiving. Don't worry; it's equal-opportunity Se and Ne.


Ti kicks in as follows: You have a collection of mental models of objects, things, ideas, and phenomena all around you. Those models could be very fuzzy or very rigid. You could could be of a mechanical pencil, the 'rules' behind some ideology, the stock market, the process of decision making, and so on. You could have an overarching model that covers a bunch of things, such as the physiological process of using that mechanical pencil to jot down ideas. (And, if depending on how far you want to take the whole thing, you have a particular understanding of how one's ideas in their head can be transformed into something that can be written or drawn on a two-dimensional plane.) Even a few layers above that, you might have one that represents your understanding of the impact of literacy itself on societal interaction. Or something.


Say, then, you also see, hear, intuit, or otherwise perceive something. Anything. Some piece of information. You might see a black swan for the very first time. You could get pulled over and given a speeding ticket, observing the process of pullover-to-ticket as you go through it.* You might intuit parallels between some of your mental models: a stereotypical kangaroo, a spring-loaded BB gun, and a very general depiction sinusoidal-esque wave generated by anything.

* About a year ago, I'd gotten my first speeding ticket, ever. It didn't teach me much about the dangers of speeding and potentially getting into trouble as it'd likely do for many people. No, it told me what my odds are of getting pulled over given my current driving habits. Getting one ticket in a decade and a half of speeding is pretty low odds. Accordingly, I didn't change my driving behavior at all. I'm still waiting on a second ticket. Maybe I'll have to wait another 15 years.. ?


With Ti in the aux position, you might hold that information aside for a little bit. You might think about how to incorporate this new information -- whether in building up your understanding of a chapter in a book, reading a person, or even in experiencing complete cognitive dissonance when running headfirst into a wealth of information that's diametrically opposed to something that you know. That last one requires a bit of reconciliation. Lots of thought. Jamming your perspective and that outside perspective into some 'third alternative' that incorporates both.

Then you jam it all into your mental models, and the process of doing so changes them up so that your understanding is more in line with what you observe. Parts of your models get chopped off, some new parts might get tacked on, some fuzziness can become more rigid or vice versa. You take a slab of marble and carve into it and chip away at it rigorously over time. As you refine your understanding, your slab begins to look more and more like a realistic naked guy. You can then hand your David off to a Florence museum or something.


In the dom position.. seems like it'd be very similar, but you'd absorb information using your models as a lens, at least in part, rather than soaking it all in more directly. You're more discerning.


Of course, everyone does both of these, etc. etc., and Ti in either one of those positions needs balance from the other, etc. etc. Right. Got it. People-watching without even bothering to grab chisel does you no good at all; nor does shutting yourself in your basement with a crude piece of slab that does a piss-poor job of representing an actual naked guy.


And that, my friends, is my current understanding of Ti. I'll be taking in new information via this thread, and then I'll refine it accordingly.
 

anticlimatic

Permabanned
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
3,299
MBTI Type
INTP
It's like Fi, only backed by logic instead of the whispers of unicorns.
 

JocktheMotie

Habitual Fi LineStepper
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
8,494
Alright, let's have a go. I can't explain any of this without tying in perceiving. Don't worry; it's equal-opportunity Se and Ne.


Ti kicks in as follows: You have a collection of mental models of objects, things, ideas, and phenomena all around you. Those models could be very fuzzy or very rigid. You could could be of a mechanical pencil, the 'rules' behind some ideology, the stock market, the process of decision making, and so on. You could have an overarching model that covers a bunch of things, such as the physiological process of using that mechanical pencil to jot down ideas. (And, if depending on how far you want to take the whole thing, you have a particular understanding of how one's ideas in their head can be transformed into something that can be written or drawn on a two-dimensional plane.) Even a few layers above that, you might have one that represents your understanding of the impact of literacy itself on societal interaction. Or something.


Say, then, you also see, hear, intuit, or otherwise perceive something. Anything. Some piece of information. You might see a black swan for the very first time. You could get pulled over and given a speeding ticket, observing the process of pullover-to-ticket as you go through it.* You might intuit parallels between some of your mental models: a stereotypical kangaroo, a spring-loaded BB gun, and a very general depiction sinusoidal-esque wave generated by anything.

* About a year ago, I'd gotten my first speeding ticket, ever. It didn't teach me much about the dangers of speeding and potentially getting into trouble as it'd likely do for many people. No, it told me what my odds are of getting pulled over given my current driving habits. Getting one ticket in a decade and a half of speeding is pretty low odds. Accordingly, I didn't change my driving behavior at all. I'm still waiting on a second ticket. Maybe I'll have to wait another 15 years.. ?


With Ti in the aux position, you might hold that information aside for a little bit. You might think about how to incorporate this new information -- whether in building up your understanding of a chapter in a book, reading a person, or even in experiencing complete cognitive dissonance when running headfirst into a wealth of information that's diametrically opposed to something that you know. That last one requires a bit of reconciliation. Lots of thought. Jamming your perspective and that outside perspective into some 'third alternative' that incorporates both.

Then you jam it all into your mental models, and the process of doing so changes them up so that your understanding is more in line with what you observe. Parts of your models get chopped off, some new parts might get tacked on, some fuzziness can become more rigid or vice versa. You take a slab of marble and carve into it and chip away at it rigorously over time. As you refine your understanding, your slab begins to look more and more like a realistic naked guy. You can then hand your David off to a Florence museum or something.


In the dom position.. seems like it'd be very similar, but you'd absorb information using your models as a lens, at least in part, rather than soaking it all in more directly. You're more discerning.


Of course, everyone does both of these, etc. etc., and Ti in either one of those positions needs balance from the other, etc. etc. Right. Got it. People-watching without even bothering to grab chisel does you no good at all; nor does shutting yourself in your basement with a crude piece of slab that does a piss-poor job of representing an actual naked guy.


And that, my friends, is my current understanding of Ti. I'll be taking in new information via this thread, and then I'll refine it accordingly.

Quoting because this is great.
 

Dreamer

Potential is My Addiction
Joined
Jul 26, 2015
Messages
4,539
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
794
I think it works like this. I'm often trying to understand the difference with Fi, since for me, my internal system of thought constructs my "feely" principles... only that with no feelings at all. I analyze an idea, a comment, etc, and if I find it to be true or interesting, if it has something that makes me wonder endlessly, I store it. If not, it's immediately discarded and I'll never remember it again. Well, not immediately, just after saying out loud "nope", "you're wrong", "pffff", snoring or smiling malevolently.

But everything that happens around me is scanned, divided in bits (think of it like Legos) and then rebuilt in a logical way. If there's a piece that doesn't fit, the whole bag of Lego-bits is thrown to the recycle bin and deleted forever.

For INTPs is a bit difficult, I guess, because together with Ne, every Lego has a question, a fun fact or a "what if" (with its subsequent questions, fun facts or "what ifs", with their subseq...), so in reality, each Lego is actually 40 Legos, and the complete idea becomes a monster.

This is so interesting because your thought process sounds very similar to mine with Fi. Except that instead of analyzing through a logic flavor, I'm viewing everything through an emotion lens and value system for memory retention. I'm also intrigued how Ne plays a role for you as your aux function since Ne is my dom function. With me, I sort of just consume all these ideas and observations without too much filter, and then I have to sit aside somewhere to process all that information and store it away for future use. So do you start with information you've already sort of weeded through with your Ti, then your Ne takes hold then expands outwards from that narrowed information?
 

Dreamer

Potential is My Addiction
Joined
Jul 26, 2015
Messages
4,539
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
794
It's like Fi, only backed by logic instead of the whispers of unicorns.

A strong Fi user may not be the next villain in a Bond movie, but you can be sure they'd be able to unleash massive psychological torture on you. Beware the unicorns ;)
 

Litsnob

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
301
The way I understand it in myself is that my Ti does two things. One is that it works with Ni to sort through everything I'm taking in and file it away so it is accessible when it will be useful. When I consciously use Ti, when I am actively trying to learn about something or think through a problem, Ti is very focused and determined to dig into something and find out everything I can about it, which usually involved accessing all my prior collected information (stored in those brain files) and adding that to whatever I find through research. This results in pieces of paper I have written on being spread out all over the table.
 

CitizenErased

Clean Slate
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
552
This is so interesting because your thought process sounds very similar to mine with Fi. Except that instead of analyzing through a logic flavor, I'm viewing everything through an emotion lens and value system for memory retention. I'm also intrigued how Ne plays a role for you as your aux function since Ne is my dom function. With me, I sort of just consume all these ideas and observations without too much filter, and then I have to sit aside somewhere to process all that information and store it away for future use. So do you start with information you've already sort of weeded through with your Ti, then your Ne takes hold then expands outwards from that narrowed information?

Exactly. It's like peeling a banana to extract the important part and then add all kinds of fruit pieces to make a fruit salad. Si would be the fridge. Sorry for the lame metaphor, but I think in metaphors, can't live without them!
 

ChocolateMoose123

New member
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
5,278
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Ti for me is neutral. It doesn't seek to judge but collect. It does this automatically for me as a dominant function.

I like analogies when explaining these things because it is hard to verbalize past that first sentence so I will give one.

If the world is a puzzle, and information is the pieces, Ti is the tool that recognizes what piece fits where.

Ti *knows* what every piece looks like in the pile.

Need a upper right corner piece? Ti knows where the corner pieces are, pulls those four out and immediately recognizes that piece. Throws the rest back in the pile until another piece is called for.

It's also why it is easy to detect inconsistency because Ti for me is always under the radar putting like with like and this builds micro-systems of understanding.
 

the state i am in

Active member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,475
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
an emergent if-then channel that automatically organizes itself, like an unraveling way of snapping a line of energy into place, or how i feel when i'm doing yoga in a particularly awesome flow state and allowing these big lines of energy to change the way all the musculature around it understands itself, the rules of the rules of the rules

it's just this awesome focuser, the convex point of that energy which is boring thru space-time

the way deductive inference creates this arrow of what's left-ness, or a particularly directed decision structure taking so much info from all these little dendrites and outputting sense of forwardness like it's its job

and the whole looking for the thread part, a more silken thread, definitely makes use of some high frequency scanning to get at the deeper layers of something and breaking it apart so that its kind of bound space can be recognized and opened up to explore each part more fully

the central tightrope connecting the points in the story, while embedded within intersections with others

this kind of swordpath whose swaths keep figuring out what to keep, what does not stop, what must be further calculated (life to be lived); the zig zag (altho, with all those angles, i don't really know how it works with curves...)

"the calculus" (do better picturing it)
 

Kaizer

sophiloist
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
795
MBTI Type
INTp
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Work smarter, not harder.

The ' working smarter' bit appears so cause of the latent, ever-present, never-letting-go-from-its-grip/influence/tug/flux-field 'hard work'....pretty nicely verbalized by [MENTION=5223]MDP2525[/MENTION] & [MENTION=6275]the state i am in[/MENTION]
Ti for me is neutral. It doesn't seek to judge but collect. It does this automatically for me as a dominant function.

I like analogies when explaining these things because it is hard to verbalize past that first sentence so I will give one.

If the world is a puzzle, and information is the pieces, Ti is the tool that recognizes what piece fits where.

Ti *knows* what every piece looks like in the pile.

Need a upper right corner piece? Ti knows where the corner pieces are, pulls those four out and immediately recognizes that piece. Throws the rest back in the pile until another piece is called for.

It's also why it is easy to detect inconsistency because Ti for me is always under the radar putting like with like and this builds micro-systems of understanding.

an emergent if-then channel that automatically organizes itself, like an unraveling way of snapping a line of energy into place, or how i feel when i'm doing yoga in a particularly awesome flow state and allowing these big lines of energy to change the way all the musculature around it understands itself, the rules of the rules of the rules

it's just this awesome focuser, the convex point of that energy which is boring thru space-time

the way deductive inference creates this arrow of what's left-ness, or a particularly directed decision structure taking so much info from all these little dendrites and outputting sense of forwardness like it's its job

and the whole looking for the thread part, a more silken thread, definitely makes use of some high frequency scanning to get at the deeper layers of something and breaking it apart so that its kind of bound space can be recognized and opened up to explore each part more fully

the central tightrope connecting the points in the story, while embedded within intersections with others

this kind of swordpath whose swaths keep figuring out what to keep, what does not stop, what must be further calculated (life to be lived); the zig zag (altho, with all those angles, i don't really know how it works with curves...)

"the calculus" (do better picturing it)
 

VagrantFarce

Active member
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
1,558
I like to think, in the same way Fi is good at determining the "sincerity" in something, Ti is good at determining a kind of logical "consistency". Fundamentally, they're both internal barometers - they're ways of orienting toward yourself and your own inner world, rather than just navigating the world around you (which is more Te & Fe).
 

Litsnob

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
301
The way I understand it in myself is that it works with my Ni to make sense of what I already know but don't know how I know. It's like working backwards. I know something because I have unconsciously intuited it, so when I need to examine it or explain it, I work through it logically, often verbally or in writing, and it allows me to realise all the steps I was unaware of taking to arrive at a conclusion. My Ti makes lists and charts and writes things on little bits of paper to make it clear to me what I understand, know or what pieces are missing.
 
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