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FPs, describe Fi as you understand it

PeaceBaby

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[MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] sent me a PM to potentially start the thread for Fi, related to her original thread here.

The premise remains intact as per the original FJ thread: FPs please share your personal perspective of what Fi is, and what your experience is like "using it" as a Fi-dom or auxiliary.

Share in a format that suits you best.
 

five sounds

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Fi to me has to do with authenticity and actualization. It's being in touch with me as I am, being true to it, and becoming the fullest version.
 

Gawain

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It's like not having a Jiminy Cricket voice in your brain. Rules aren't important so much, but feelings and living beings are. So I usually find out the hard way that rules help us all not hurt each other. The other rules in society still remain useless to me, since I only don't want to be a villain. I follow the golden rule to the best of my ability, but other than that, I just do whatever I feel like at any given moment. Life is too short to waste time on anything else.

Obviously, being an adult and providing for myself means not just doing what I want all the time. So my other functions come into play with keeping me employed, housed, and able to function in a society that plans things out and has lots of different people with different needs and desires. But pure Fi is just me doing what I want. It's effortless and natural, because it's my dominant function. The only hard part is putting it into words, because everyone thinks we do the same things internally. Authenticity is a good word to describe it, but then people think I'm "trying" to be different or something. And it's more of a "do I feel like pizza or hamburgers right now" sorta thing, but with all of life and the endless possiblilities presented. So being authentic is just knowing what you want at any given moment, without all the pressure of thinking too much about it. On that note, I feel like a shower right now... Lol
 

cascadeco

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For me it's not necessarily knowing what want for everything,as for more complex things I in fact may not or it may take me a while to sort through things to get to the root, but it's more about prioritizing the importance of figuring that out on my own, and there's a pretty strong element of personal responsibility and ownership in everything I do, ie I 'own' my choices, and I view other people as owning theirs and communicating their needs, and so the negative side of this coin is I don't think I naturally come at things from a 'team'/ we do this together /compromise perspective. For better or for worse, I view things as a 'this is how I am', that's how you are, accept differences or realize incompatibility. Something like that. This isn't to say when I value a friendship or in a relationship I don't in fact try to meet peoples' needs, in fact I think I overdo that sometimes, but the 'us'/unit element is something I think I struggle with. I think I always see two individuals. So I think there's a pretty root figuring-out-on-own, and yeah, staying 'real' and true to what I have determined is the way I want to live life and view life. I don't think I impose on others but I'll stand firm in some of the core things.

I feel like there's a lot more to it but that's an element I can think of for right now.
 

gromit

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It's a gut feeling. Something is right or wrong. And also right for who I am.

It can change based on new information and even on other people too sometimes.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Could you explain that a little? The meaning of that is lost on me. Are you expressing that you agree with everything that was said so much that you will almost explode?
 

magpie

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Could you explain that a little? The meaning of that is lost on me. Are you expressing that you agree with everything that was said so much that you will almost explode?

No... I'm describing Fi as I understand it in a format that suits me best. :huh:
 

Masokissed

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Everything I'm feeling inside. Sifting through these emotions on the inside like how a TP would with harder logic? The emotional reaction something or someone gives me. What I think is right or wrong. Searching for the truth in myself and the world. Rarely even avoiding a truth because an emotional response of disgust might be too high. Taking something Ne and finding a Fi attachment for it that makes it more true for me.
 

Yama

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Can I ask the FPs a question? I have seen a lot of people around multiple forums correlate enneagram 4 to Fi, but not all Fi-users have 4 as their heart type. What is a good way to differentiate the two?
 

Amargith

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Oh. I guess that kind of thing just makes me confused.

Possible Translation:

Let's do it!
Learn all you can
Plug it into the matrix and 'see' the world
Loving every moment of it

AWESOMELY MINDBLOWING!!!!


:alttongue:
 

Southern Kross

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Instinctive. Primordial. Highly specific. Personal. Oblique. Like knowing the answer without knowing the question. Tyrannical in its demands for adherence to truth. Like a wormhole from the individual to the collective.

Using it differs depending on the circumstances. The mundane, unconscious usage is reactionary. Taking in the situation/factors, evaluating what 'feels' like the right course (not just for me). I am presented with options and I choose which one seems best (I cannot instigate action of my own accord). Conscious usage (like trying to write this post) is like reaching down deep inside of me. Straining to read the enigmatic feeling tones and translate them into human language. It can be a bit like playing the hot-cold game with yourself until you get a close enough answer.
 

magpie

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Possible Translation:

Let's do it!
Learn all you can
Plug it into the matrix and 'see' the world
Loving every moment of it

AWESOMELY MINDBLOWING!!!!


:alttongue:

I really like this translation. It wasn't what I was going for either but it works equally as well.

The solidarity fist was meant to represent my initial reaction to how I feel when something touches me or when I discover something I find I must stand up for. The chalkboard is integrating that on a surface level and the matrix is weaving that into the heart, which is my world of emotions. And the explosion was just for emphasis.
 

Amargith

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I was asked to contribute something, but I think I'll repost something instead.

You know how in a Ti style of debates you have to prove your moxy by showing a certain IQ level? With Fi, you're expected to show a certain level of EQ, I suppose. That means no mudslinging, no name calling, no deliberate discrediting of someone elses pov, no mental fencing games. Since you're discussing subjective matters, usually, it is of no use to one-up someone or disprove them, somehow.



Anyways, the general idea is to dig for insight, wisdom and clarity - at least, to me. That means contributing personal experiences, expressing empathy, and backtracking the root of the situation on an emotional level. And it is for that reason, as well, that it is considered presumptuous to speak for all and why so much 'I' talk is used instead - to indicate that this is *your* personal experience you're relating. It's also why you'll see Fi-users put in disclaimers when they generalise something, and request other Fi-users to join in if they find they cannot relate, so that more data points can be added into the mix and your understanding of whatever it was you had an opinion on can be enriched.

Next, there is trying to use all the gathered information to formulate universal values that could be applied to create harmony, freedom and satisfaction for each individual involved. Reaching a consensus can be highly appreciated, but is by no means necessary. Sometimes it is useful just to marvel at all the different perspectives and pathways one can take to approach a situation and recognise each person's preference in this.

Asking questions and displaying curiosity is highly encouraged as the aim is to first truly understand the other person's position. You know how you get disqualified in Ti-debates by showing lack of logical reasoning? Yeah, this is our variant of that. If you cannot display the clear ability to grasp the other person's perspective and even more so, their experience through empathy, then your input will likely be irrelevant at best and at worst, corrupted and therefore disregarded. That means that any of your feedback becomes unwelcome, whereas actual constructive feedback, gleaned from the use of empathy, is usually highly praised and appreciated as a new way to look at the topic at hand (clearly, this is the Ne-variant - I'd be very interested in learning how an SFP would experience this).

Contrary to with Ti-debates, the idea is usually to fully grasp the situation by including all perspectives at first and examining all angles and if possible, get on the same page together, so that all participants can brainstorm and contribute ideas on how to best handle this particular topic, with respect to all. Often, the actual desired end result (at least to me) is finding that I a) grew closer in my understanding of the other person(s), b) that we actually find mutual ground where a win-win for both parties is accomplished and c) the big jackpot: the conversation actually somehow helped me click into place several puzzle pieces I was still fuzzy about or didn't even realise existed, thus furthering my understanding of the universe, to put it dramatically.


...at least, that's my ruleset. Since Fi is pretty individualistic, others may add or subtract from this in their own way. And that too, will become clear during the discussion. The general rule there is to respect each others preferences as much as possible as they are communicated to you (and I personally find it preferable adjust my communication style on the fly to maximise clarity in delivery, while staying true to my own stance).

If this isn't what you guys had in mind with this thread, I'll gladly add more, later on, though.
 

Amargith

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I experienced the development of aux Fi in three developmental stages and in three arenas.

The first stage was the raw version. You get visceral gut reactions, this fire alarm that goes off inside you when something isn't right, and the utter feeling of bliss when something is exactly right - you cannot explain it, and you are kind of dumbfounded to find that others don't necessarily share this experience.

And so, you turn within to figure out what emotions get triggered by what and how they make sense, when they're reliable information and how to fine-tune their accuracy, as well as what to take away from it and put into action. The last part is hardest. From repeated application, certain values come into focus, which become the axioms of your value system. Almost all Fi-users seem to develop the value 'respect other peoples preferences as long as they don't harm others' from this process, because it would be kind of hypocritical not to, when you kind of want others to do the same for you :D

It might also be the reason why most Fi-users Ive met seem to have a yearning desire to be understood and actually show love themselves by attempting the same for the other person (the mastery of which happened in stage 2, arena 2 for me)

So, this is how most people seem to start their development of aux Fi(Ne), ime, though some people might start with the second arena (for instance, because their environment triggers the need to read other people to ensure their survival and cope with chronic stress - think abusive situations). And of course, it is possible to have a stage 1 mastery while trying to use on arena 2, in which case they may come across as rather 'bumbling', or to use arena 3 skills on stage 1 to fine-tune your understanding of Self even more, and so on.

The second arena is other people. Once you have a grasp of how things work within and you've noticed that others don't necessarily work the same way and for that matter, show internal inconsistencies, you can then use that curiosity to try and 'personality map' others. You start with the template you already have - yourself, and start marking down the differences as you observe them.

How would I feel if I were them in this situation? -> this is the most basic way to engage empathy within anyone. And it is useful, in its most basic state, in a pinch. It can give you a general idea of the situation you're in, with them, if you do not have any other information.

But arena two also shows the need for stage two:

Experimentation indicates that they don't react as you would in that in that situation. At least not every time. So - what makes up the difference?
Observation eventually leads you to conclude that they hold different axiomatic values than you do. Which makes sense:

- their background is different from yours, after all. But, it's more than that.
- Their personality and the behavioural patterns they display also differ from yours

So, you need as much intel as possible on these parameters for you to make an accurate personality map. Questions and in depth talks are the way to go :wink:

So now, we have three elements to the equation: the situation, their personality and their past.

The use of the last variable depends on the mastery of stage 1, imho. It's the ability to take your own emotions out of the equation, neutralise them completely so you can insert 'their personality codex' in lieu of your own, and effectively allows you to perfect stage two: mapping out and predicting in arena two: others. Doing this kind of feels like stepping into one of them virtual 3D devices or a flight simulator, allowing you can literally walk a mile in another shoes. It's only a simulator and the accuracy depends on its programming, and it's not without its limitations...but it's still fucking awesome. It helps answer such burning questions as: how do they experience life? Why is this shit so important to them? How did they get here? The thing I love most about it is that you see the person's matrix - their code. Their past, where it lead them, their journey, and all that they can still achieve in their live. Their raw potential :heart:

Caveat: Those who started with area two due to circumstances, need a chance to complete arena 1 in order to actually fully master arena 2.

After doing plenty of stage 2 in arena 2, you gather enough intel and patterns (again, NFP here, though I'd imagine that SFPs do this based other experiences instead, which could explain their avant-guarde way of predicting society and inspiring it with their work, touching just the right value within each individual) so you get access to arena 3 and stage 3:

The development of universal values. Tracking down everyone's values to their core root, to..well, the DNA stage of each unique value, really and from there on distill and articulate them in such a way that they can be universally applied in society without (theoretically) infringing on anyone's unique way of interpreting them or their preferences of how to use them. Everything is checked and double-checked and checked again for internal consistency and upmost flexibility to respect each individuals preferences while yielding maximum gain in the long-run.

Then it's a matter of seeding these values like a butterfly does with pollen to others. Championing them. Testing them out, seeing how others respond, if they need more work and fine-tuning on the way they resonate with people, how beneficial they will actually be, how theory translates into practice, and how potent the idea is regarding viral spreading (it may need 're-branding' to really deliver its message, for instance). Transparency regarding your agenda is *huuuge* in this stage, so people really do feel inspired for themselves, that it is their own choice to adopt this because it is right to *them*.

After this, I leave things in the capable hands of TJs and FJs - Fjs to implement it socially, TJs to build the systems to turn theory into reality.


Note: I am aware that as an ENFP 4 with an apparently really heavy-handed Fi, this is likely not the process that even other ENFPs have followed. And I would imagine that INFPs likely go beyond what I've described in applying their Fi to *everything* as it is their dominant perspective - not just to themselves, to others and to society/universal values.


Anycase, that was my two cents :offtobed:
 

hjgbujhghg

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For me Fi is not about right or wrong, my Fi hates right or wrong because it's impersonal generalization of a personal value.

For me Fi is about an ideal, living and becoming the ideal and judging the environment based on the internal ideal. It's about being in touch with your inner self and subjective sense of the imperfect perfection.
 

Masokissed

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Can I ask the FPs a question? I have seen a lot of people around multiple forums correlate enneagram 4 to Fi, but not all Fi-users have 4 as their heart type. What is a good way to differentiate the two?

FPs with a 2 fix can be mistyped with a 4 fix easily because of the Fi. FPs with a 4 fix have a more natural orientation to self-development or self-analysis and FPs with the 2 fix are more oriented to attracting love or helping others self-develop. Despite people thinking 2 = Fe, I think the FP that would look most like a Fe type would be one that has a 3 fix (but I think they'd look more like a TP than an FJ).
 

HongDou

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For me Fi is not about right or wrong, my Fi hates right or wrong because it's impersonal generalization of a personal value.

I gotta thank you for writing this because when talking about myself today I was reminded of what you said. It's hard for me to articulate what Fi is to me but I think I can offer an example.

I'm not going to regurgitate the specific events or what exact moment in this forum I'm talking about, but basically in the past there have been polarizing feuds on this forum in which it felt like one was required to take a side. But every time for me there was so much grey - I want to accept things for what they are on an intrinsic standpoint and not form judgments based on how they behave from external parameters. I liked both sides and while both weren't doing things that weren't necessarily "good" from another POV I still accepted them for what they were at their core. So I tried to stay neutral because accepting one and rejecting the other didn't feel like a choice I could make (although there were also FPs who were not neutral at all because they were able to reject one of them), but in the most recent events I ended up getting nulled out by both because of my indecision.

Let me quote what someone once said to me on here:

The problem is...is if I'm using ____ in a sentence...I then know with certainty I'm breaking rules and offending people. Sooo...I'm...so glad...that....... you love me just the way I am. You accept my flaws.

Fi :solidarity:

Bleeeh, this sounds a little cheesy and pretentious to me but I can't think of any other way to put this stuff into words.
 
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