[Si] Si as "conservative" (semantics + misconceptions)

[PeaceBaby]

It's almost scary how so many people interpret SJ descriptions--and thus SJs themselves--so chock full of stereotypes.

What are your thoughts on the ISFJ description here? Portrait of an ISFJ

 

[RobinSkye]

21Lux for site Si-dom rep

 

[fetus]

How would you differentiate between Si and Fi? ISFJs and INFPs seem more alike than most people think. What's Si in different positions?

(I say this because I'm an IxFx on the Ne/Si axis.)

 

[Yama]

What are your thoughts on the ISFJ description here? Portrait of an ISFJ

Since the paragraphs are small and the description not too long I'll go through how I feel about it paragraph by paragraph.

As an ISFJ, your primary mode of living is focused internally, where you takes things in via your five senses in a literal, concrete fashion. Your secondary mode is external, where you deal with things according to how you feel about them, or how they fit into your personal value system.

So this is basically saying that as an ISFJ I am PiJe? I don't have much to complain about here.

ISFJs live in a world that is concrete and kind. They are truly warm and kind-hearted, and want to believe the best of people. They value harmony and cooperation, and are likely to be very sensitive to other people's feelings. People value the ISFJ for their consideration and awareness, and their ability to bring out the best in others by their firm desire to believe the best.

Blegh... I don't like when descriptions paint all ISFJs to be "warm and kind-hearted." I definitely would consider myself friendly, but not exactly "warm"--but other ISFJs might not mind that kind of stuff in the descriptions as much as I do. I like the valuing harmony part, but not sure if that's because I'm an ISFJ so much as because I am a 9. I don't really see myself as bringing out the best in others more than just trying to keep it all together, and I don't really have a "firm desire to believe in the best," but that could just be me. I have the tendency to wallow in negativity unfortunately. I can't talk for how other people value me, as I'm not sure. All I know is that my friends like me because they can be comfortable around me and they like my sense of humor and we have similar interests, but not sure beyond that.

ISFJs have a rich inner world that is not usually obvious to observers. They constantly take in information about people and situations that is personally important to them, and store it away. This tremendous store of information is usually startlingly accurate, because the ISFJ has an exceptional memory about things that are important to their value systems. It would not be uncommon for the ISFJ to remember a particular facial expression or conversation in precise detail years after the event occured, if the situation made an impression on the ISFJ.

I would say yes for the most part. Though my memory's not perfect; I tend to discard anything that I don't find important. Like what color shirt was I wearing yesterday? I don't know. But I've gotten into "memory arguments" before--and won--about things people thought that happened, but I remember differently. I remember the day I saw Catching Fire in theatres, that I went to IHOP with ISTJ and INTJ, I ordered the country-fried steak, it was raining, ISTJ was panicking cuz he wanted to go see it but had to work overnight and we were arguing over whether the movie would let out soon enough for him to get home in time, I drove my crappy pickup truck down the street as fast as I could to get INTJ home because she couldn't go, it was my first time going to an AMC theatre and seeing the new comfy chairs they had and the weird seating arrangement thing... I remember this, but I don't remember what color shirt I was wearing yesterday. So I would agree with this paragraph.

ISFJs have a very clear idea of the way things should be, which they strive to attain. They value security and kindness, and respect traditions and laws. They tend to believe that existing systems are there because they work. Therefore, they're not likely to buy into doing things in a new way, unless they're shown in a concrete way why its better than the established method.

"Respect tradition and laws"... ugh. That's the kind of sentence that spawns misconceptions. Tradition was already briefly mentioned in this thread so to paraphrase: tradition makes you think of a specific kind of way of living, like "traditional" gender roles etc., when really it means a whole different thing. Spawns stereotypes. Following laws... I mean, I follow them for convenience, but if I disagree with a law I think is stupid who cares? I pirate music like daily and don't feel any remorse. So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't like the whole "tradition" word usage because of previous reasons mentioned in this thread. But the last sentence is correct: I'm not completely shut out to new ways of doing things, but you have to show me that it's better than my current method first.

ISFJs learn best by doing, rather than by reading about something in a book, or applying theory. For this reason, they are not likely to be found in fields which require a lot of conceptual analysis or theory. They value practical application. Traditional methods of higher education, which require a lot of theorizing and abstraction, are likely to be a chore for the ISFJ. The ISFJ learns a task best by being shown its practical application. Once the task is learned, and its practical importance is understood, the ISFJ will faithfully and tirelessly carry through the task to completion. The ISFJ is extremely dependable.

I'm definitely a hands-on kind of learner. Showing me how to do something and having me do it myself is much better than telling me how to do it. Though I wouldn't say that means we can't like to analyze of participate in theory--I hate math, for instance, but I actually highly enjoyed philosophy of logic, which is in essence very mathematical. I even became a supplemental instructor for it. And now I'm currently in school for sociology, which requires a lot of theorizing and analyzing--but with people and norms and trends rather than abstract things and numbers mumbo jumbo. Being able to practically apply something is very important--I'm not going to rack my brain trying to understand some theory that has no point because it doesn't apply to the real world. I don't really understand what "traditional methods of higher education" means. Also, I mean, just showing me that something has a practical application doesn't guarantee that I'm going to "tirelessly carry it through to completion." I can understand that something can be applied and still think it's stupid. For instance... math. I totally understand its practical application and necessities, but there's no way in hell I'm going to kill myself going into a career that requires a lot of math. Along with the last sentence, I would call myself dependable, but I think that depends on the individual mostly.

The ISFJ has an extremely well-developed sense of space, function, and aesthetic appeal. For that reason, they're likely to have beautifully furnished, functional homes. They make extremely good interior decorators. This special ability, combined with their sensitivity to other's feelings and desires, makes them very likely to be great gift-givers - finding the right gift which will be truly appreciated by the recipient.

Well, I always was fascinated by interior design and my favorite part of The Sims was always making the sims and decorating the houses rather than actually playing the game.

I'm not sure I am "sensitive" to others feelings more than I am just simply driven to maintain harmony which means to consider others' feelings (even if it means I'm not "naturally" attuned to them), but, I like the gift-giving thing. I like to make personalized gifts. My ISTJ bff loves the gifts I make him. For his birthday the year before last, I spent hours compiling an "A to Z" scrapbook/binder of things that he likes--like, "A is for Ayumi Hamasaki, B is for balisong, C is for Clannad..." all the way to Z, with pictures and it was all done by hand. He keeps it on his shelf within arms reach at all times. I also made him a personalized birthday card last year too, and he loved it. Not always making gifts--one year we bought each other Ayumi Hamasaki singles for Christmas. He said he got me the cheapest one he could find on ebay that I didn't already have (thanks lol). I bought him one that I knew he loved and he wouldn't shut up for days about how "thoughtful" it was. I don't know how I started rambling for so long about gift-giving. So I guess, yeah, gift-giving is something that I'm good at--for people I know well enough anyway.

More so than other types, ISFJs are extremely aware of their own internal feelings, as well as other people's feelings. They do not usually express their own feelings, keeping things inside. If they are negative feelings, they may build up inside the ISFJ until they turn into firm judgments against individuals which are difficult to unseed, once set. Many ISFJs learn to express themselves, and find outlets for their powerful emotions.

This one is tricky. I feel like I am aware of my feelings, but at the same time I have a really hard time articulating them. Sometimes I'm feeling so much that I'm not sure what exactly it is I'm feeling. I'm actually not so much aware of other peoples' feelings as I am aware of the general emotional atmosphere around us. If you look in my private blog, you'll see that this past week I was stressed out over the "tense atmosphere" between me and my ISTJ friend and worried that I had done something wrong, but after hanging out with him yesterday, things were back to normal. I wasn't sure exactly what he was feeling--I can't look inside his head and he's not the "sharing" type. But I knew what the atmosphere was like--last week it was heavy, and now it's friendly/bubbly/fun again.

I tend not to express feelings openly in person, but I have no problem being a whiner and over-sharing over IM. Actually, it's gotten to the point that my friends get worried about me if I don't over-share what I'm doing every 20 minutes with them via text or IM. But if you confront me about anything "serious" that I might have shared about my feelings over text/IM in person the next time you see me, I get really awkward, shut down, and don't talk about it. I came out to my mom over facebook and we talked and she was fine, and the next time I saw her she started talking to me about it and I immediately went into "nope" mode. In-person I'm expected to immediately respond. I like text-based mediums for talking about my feelings because I have time to think and reflect and edit myself for clarity. I also do have the tendency to become bitter--I have a problem with someone, but I don't do anything about it because I'm nervous, so I become bitter even though it's my own damn fault.

Finding a means of expressing myself is very important. For me, I think it's a mixture of my blog, ranting to others, music, and daydreaming.

Just as the ISFJ is not likely to express their feelings, they are also not likely to let on that they know how others are feeling. However, they will speak up when they feel another individual really needs help, and in such cases they can truly help others become aware of their feelings.

I'm neutral on this, leaning towards agree. Especially in person/real-time, I tend to only express the "positive" and keep any of the negative bottled up. I wish I was better about speaking up for people who need help. I can't think of an example where I've done this really. I find listening to other people talk about their emotions awkward because I'm a big hypocrite. Or maybe it's because I feel responsible for "fixing" their negativity to make them their "usual happy self" again.

The ISFJ feels a strong sense of responsibility and duty. They take their responsibilities very seriously, and can be counted on to follow through. For this reason, people naturally tend to rely on them. The ISFJ has a difficult time saying "no" when asked to do something, and may become over-burdened. In such cases, the ISFJ does not usually express their difficulties to others, because they intensely dislike conflict, and because they tend to place other people's needs over their own. The ISFJ needs to learn to identify, value, and express their own needs, if they wish to avoid becoming over-worked and taken for granted.

I would agree with this, especially in a work atmosphere. I was often taken advantage of as an employee, made to work 40-hour work weeks while only getting part-time benefits because I could be depended on. And I was very aware of being taken advantage of, and I was bitter, but I was too nervous to stand up for myself or stay anything. It was a very distressing situation to be in. Learning to say "no" is a big problem of mine--in my disaster of a thread "How can I make my Fe not suck," there's a brief discussion about me having a hard time saying no to a kid who wanted to borrow a pencil every single day, which I found annoying. Disliking conflict is 100% of the matter for me, but also remember that being a 9, this may be different for me than for ISFJs who aren't 9s.

Big misconception: I don't actually place other people's needs above my own. I'm pretty fucking selfish actually. I only really care about myself and the few people I deem important to me. But the reason I have problems saying "no" and such is because I need harmony to function. I don't like even the littlest bit of conflict. I'm super sensitive to criticism, even if it's constructive, and so much as being around someone who slightly raises their voice makes me want to run away and hide. The reason I have trouble saying no etc. is more because I am able to see how my actions affect the other person--I once forced myself to stay friends with someone I didn't really like because "telling them I don't want to be friends anymore is mean." As in, if I were in their situation, I would be hurt, especially since they wouldn't be able to see where my feelings were coming from as I kept them concealed. I'm able to pretty easily see how actions affect consequences, especially in social situations, which holds me back from wanting to do anything that would cause harm to others because I would hate it if that happened to me, and I guess I take "treat others the way you want to be treated" more seriously than I really need to.

ISFJs need positive feedback from others. In the absence of positive feedback, or in the face of criticism, the ISFJ gets discouraged, and may even become depressed. When down on themselves or under great stress, the ISFJ begins to imagine all of the things that might go critically wrong in their life. They have strong feelings of inadequacy, and become convinced that "everything is all wrong", or "I can't do anything right".

Yes! YES!!! I get super insecure super easily. I need reassurance. It's essential. I rarely get it because I won't ask for it or force it out of people, and find myself getting taken for granted a lot. RE: my bitterness issues. RE: my issues standing up for myself. RE: my problems in work environments. If I don't get any reassurance, I start to regret my actions and see what I've done as annoying or bothersome to others. The second half of the above paragraph is basically inferior Ne--and unfortunately it happens to me a lot.

The ISFJ is warm, generous, and dependable. They have many special gifts to offer, in their sensitivity to others, and their strong ability to keep things running smoothly. They need to remember to not be overly critical of themselves, and to give themselves some of the warmth and love which they freely dispense to others.

No, no, yes. I'm not warm--just friendly for the sake of friendliness. I'm not generous--I'm pretty selfish and even the "kind" things that I do are for the benefit of myself in some way. I would say I am dependable though. I'm not so much sensitive to others as I am to myself and what I want. I do need to remember not to be so critical of myself.

I DO NOT! "freely dispense" warmth and love to others. I fucking hate expressing those kinds of feelings because it's super awkward. I hate saying "thank you" and I hate even more when people thank me.

Example of actual situation I have been in:

ISTJ: Hey ISFJ, thanks for helping me the other day.
ISFJ: (confused, nervous, and on-the-spot) Shut the fuck up.

If I'm going to express gratitude or love to someone, I absolutely do it through actions and not words. I am not gushy. I--you know... I'll actually just point to the golden quote in my signature for this.


Wow um... I'm sorry if you weren't asking for/prepared for a response this long. I got a little carried away.

 

[Yama]

21Lux for site Si-dom rep

[internally screaming]

Thank you for your nomination.

How would you differentiate between Si and Fi? ISFJs and INFPs seem more alike than most people think. What's Si in different positions?

(I say this because I'm an IxFx on the Ne/Si axis.)

They seem very different to me in that Si is a perceiving function and Fi a judging function, but as they're both introverted, I can see where the confusion comes in.

Si: taking in the world, filtering it through your perceptions, all that past experience/preference for familiar stuff. It merely perceives. It does not interact. Si is not expressed outwardly. It is then again filtered through Te/Fe (in the case of an ISxJ) and that is how it is applied to the outside world.

Pi and Ji functions can be really hard to see in others because, well, they're introverted. They're internal. It's easier to detect Je and Pe in someone because it's outwardly-focused.

In the case of Ne/Si, which I am less sure on because I'm so used to dom-Si, I would say it's more the inverse. Taking in the world for exactly what it is, not filtering it subjectively, preference to gather and collect more and more different experiences, and inferior Si being that sort of... tug of nostalgia that they feel once in a while. Just how my inferior Ne sometimes pulls me to do something new when I'm feeling adventurous, inferior Si (I'm assuming--someone correct me if I'm wrong) would pull the Ne-type to go back and re-visit something they are fond of once in a while.

Fi I have a harder time talking about... I'm not sure how strong my understanding of Ji is. I would like to speculate about it, but don't want to risk being wrong and spreading incorrect information. So for now at least I hope my Si/Pi clarification is worth anything.

 

[RobinSkye]

Since the paragraphs are small and the description not too long I'll go through how I feel about it paragraph by paragraph.



So this is basically saying that as an ISFJ I am PiJe? I don't have much to complain about here.



Blegh... I don't like when descriptions paint all ISFJs to be "warm and kind-hearted." I definitely would consider myself friendly, but not exactly "warm"--but other ISFJs might not mind that kind of stuff in the descriptions as much as I do. I like the valuing harmony part, but not sure if that's because I'm an ISFJ so much as because I am a 9. I don't really see myself as bringing out the best in others more than just trying to keep it all together, and I don't really have a "firm desire to believe in the best," but that could just be me. I have the tendency to wallow in negativity unfortunately. I can't talk for how other people value me, as I'm not sure. All I know is that my friends like me because they can be comfortable around me and they like my sense of humor and we have similar interests, but not sure beyond that.



I would say yes for the most part. Though my memory's not perfect; I tend to discard anything that I don't find important. Like what color shirt was I wearing yesterday? I don't know. But I've gotten into "memory arguments" before--and won--about things people thought that happened, but I remember differently. I remember the day I saw Catching Fire in theatres, that I went to IHOP with ISTJ and INTJ, I ordered the country-fried steak, it was raining, ISTJ was panicking cuz he wanted to go see it but had to work overnight and we were arguing over whether the movie would let out soon enough for him to get home in time, I drove my crappy pickup truck down the street as fast as I could to get INTJ home because she couldn't go, it was my first time going to an AMC theatre and seeing the new comfy chairs they had and the weird seating arrangement thing... I remember this, but I don't remember what color shirt I was wearing yesterday. So I would agree with this paragraph.



"Respect tradition and laws"... ugh. That's the kind of sentence that spawns misconceptions. Tradition was already briefly mentioned in this thread so to paraphrase: tradition makes you think of a specific kind of way of living, like "traditional" gender roles etc., when really it means a whole different thing. Spawns stereotypes. Following laws... I mean, I follow them for convenience, but if I disagree with a law I think is stupid who cares? I pirate music like daily and don't feel any remorse. So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't like the whole "tradition" word usage because of previous reasons mentioned in this thread. But the last sentence is correct: I'm not completely shut out to new ways of doing things, but you have to show me that it's better than my current method first.



I'm definitely a hands-on kind of learner. Showing me how to do something and having me do it myself is much better than telling me how to do it. Though I wouldn't say that means we can't like to analyze of participate in theory--I hate math, for instance, but I actually highly enjoyed philosophy of logic, which is in essence very mathematical. I even became a supplemental instructor for it. And now I'm currently in school for sociology, which requires a lot of theorizing and analyzing--but with people and norms and trends rather than abstract things and numbers mumbo jumbo. Being able to practically apply something is very important--I'm not going to rack my brain trying to understand some theory that has no point because it doesn't apply to the real world. I don't really understand what "traditional methods of higher education" means. Also, I mean, just showing me that something has a practical application doesn't guarantee that I'm going to "tirelessly carry it through to completion." I can understand that something can be applied and still think it's stupid. For instance... math. I totally understand its practical application and necessities, but there's no way in hell I'm going to kill myself going into a career that requires a lot of math. Along with the last sentence, I would call myself dependable, but I think that depends on the individual mostly.



Well, I always was fascinated by interior design and my favorite part of The Sims was always making the sims and decorating the houses rather than actually playing the game.

I'm not sure I am "sensitive" to others feelings more than I am just simply driven to maintain harmony which means to consider others' feelings (even if it means I'm not "naturally" attuned to them), but, I like the gift-giving thing. I like to make personalized gifts. My ISTJ bff loves the gifts I make him. For his birthday the year before last, I spent hours compiling an "A to Z" scrapbook/binder of things that he likes--like, "A is for Ayumi Hamasaki, B is for balisong, C is for Clannad..." all the way to Z, with pictures and it was all done by hand. He keeps it on his shelf within arms reach at all times. I also made him a personalized birthday card last year too, and he loved it. Not always making gifts--one year we bought each other Ayumi Hamasaki singles for Christmas. He said he got me the cheapest one he could find on ebay that I didn't already have (thanks lol). I bought him one that I knew he loved and he wouldn't shut up for days about how "thoughtful" it was. I don't know how I started rambling for so long about gift-giving. So I guess, yeah, gift-giving is something that I'm good at--for people I know well enough anyway.



This one is tricky. I feel like I am aware of my feelings, but at the same time I have a really hard time articulating them. Sometimes I'm feeling so much that I'm not sure what exactly it is I'm feeling. I'm actually not so much aware of other peoples' feelings as I am aware of the general emotional atmosphere around us. If you look in my private blog, you'll see that this past week I was stressed out over the "tense atmosphere" between me and my ISTJ friend and worried that I had done something wrong, but after hanging out with him yesterday, things were back to normal. I wasn't sure exactly what he was feeling--I can't look inside his head and he's not the "sharing" type. But I knew what the atmosphere was like--last week it was heavy, and now it's friendly/bubbly/fun again.

I tend not to express feelings openly in person, but I have no problem being a whiner and over-sharing over IM. Actually, it's gotten to the point that my friends get worried about me if I don't over-share what I'm doing every 20 minutes with them via text or IM. But if you confront me about anything "serious" that I might have shared about my feelings over text/IM in person the next time you see me, I get really awkward, shut down, and don't talk about it. I came out to my mom over facebook and we talked and she was fine, and the next time I saw her she started talking to me about it and I immediately went into "nope" mode. In-person I'm expected to immediately respond. I like text-based mediums for talking about my feelings because I have time to think and reflect and edit myself for clarity. I also do have the tendency to become bitter--I have a problem with someone, but I don't do anything about it because I'm nervous, so I become bitter even though it's my own damn fault.

Finding a means of expressing myself is very important. For me, I think it's a mixture of my blog, ranting to others, music, and daydreaming.



I'm neutral on this, leaning towards agree. Especially in person/real-time, I tend to only express the "positive" and keep any of the negative bottled up. I wish I was better about speaking up for people who need help. I can't think of an example where I've done this really. I find listening to other people talk about their emotions awkward because I'm a big hypocrite. Or maybe it's because I feel responsible for "fixing" their negativity to make them their "usual happy self" again.



I would agree with this, especially in a work atmosphere. I was often taken advantage of as an employee, made to work 40-hour work weeks while only getting part-time benefits because I could be depended on. And I was very aware of being taken advantage of, and I was bitter, but I was too nervous to stand up for myself or stay anything. It was a very distressing situation to be in. Learning to say "no" is a big problem of mine--in my disaster of a thread "How can I make my Fe not suck," there's a brief discussion about me having a hard time saying no to a kid who wanted to borrow a pencil every single day, which I found annoying. Disliking conflict is 100% of the matter for me, but also remember that being a 9, this may be different for me than for ISFJs who aren't 9s.

Big misconception: I don't actually place other people's needs above my own. I'm pretty fucking selfish actually. I only really care about myself and the few people I deem important to me. But the reason I have problems saying "no" and such is because I need harmony to function. I don't like even the littlest bit of conflict. I'm super sensitive to criticism, even if it's constructive, and so much as being around someone who slightly raises their voice makes me want to run away and hide. The reason I have trouble saying no etc. is more because I am able to see how my actions affect the other person--I once forced myself to stay friends with someone I didn't really like because "telling them I don't want to be friends anymore is mean." As in, if I were in their situation, I would be hurt, especially since they wouldn't be able to see where my feelings were coming from as I kept them concealed. I'm able to pretty easily see how actions affect consequences, especially in social situations, which holds me back from wanting to do anything that would cause harm to others because I would hate it if that happened to me, and I guess I take "treat others the way you want to be treated" more seriously than I really need to.



Yes! YES!!! I get super insecure super easily. I need reassurance. It's essential. I rarely get it because I won't ask for it or force it out of people, and find myself getting taken for granted a lot. RE: my bitterness issues. RE: my issues standing up for myself. RE: my problems in work environments. If I don't get any reassurance, I start to regret my actions and see what I've done as annoying or bothersome to others. The second half of the above paragraph is basically inferior Ne--and unfortunately it happens to me a lot.



No, no, yes. I'm not warm--just friendly for the sake of friendliness. I'm not generous--I'm pretty selfish and even the "kind" things that I do are for the benefit of myself in some way. I would say I am dependable though. I'm not so much sensitive to others as I am to myself and what I want. I do need to remember not to be so critical of myself.

I DO NOT! "freely dispense" warmth and love to others. I fucking hate expressing those kinds of feelings because it's super awkward. I hate saying "thank you" and I hate even more when people thank me.

Example of actual situation I have been in:

ISTJ: Hey ISFJ, thanks for helping me the other day.
ISFJ: (confused, nervous, and on-the-spot) Shut the fuck up.

If I'm going to express gratitude or love to someone, I absolutely do it through actions and not words. I am not gushy. I--you know... I'll actually just point to the golden quote in my signature for this.


Wow um... I'm sorry if you weren't asking for/prepared for a response this long. I got a little carried away.

Good stuff! I like better understanding the functions in more contexts. You're very clear and concise.

 

[Yama]

Good stuff! I like better understanding the functions in more contexts. You're very clear and concise.

Thank you :'D

I'm glad what I'm saying makes sense and is helpful!

 

[Gogol]

This is long overdue. I think the typical "Si just indiscriminately takes what is around it and carries it on into the future likes those evil conservatives" stereotype doesn't capture Si well. Very clear and on point distinction between "preserving" and being a conservative. And also the point about Si having a choice in what to preserve - an individual or family or community things - does some to dispel the "mindless traditional drone" stereotype that I pick up when reading SJ descriptions. As you mentioned earlier and I can attest to there is a personal significance that is inherent in an introverted perceiving function like Si - so not everything is cataloged away but - only things that are relevant to the user for whatever reason - useful or significant in some way.

 

[thoughtlost]

How would you differentiate between Si and Fi? ISFJs and INFPs seem more alike than most people think. What's Si in different positions?

(I say this because I'm an IxFx on the Ne/Si axis.)

It also takes me a while to see when one is an ISFJ and when is an INFP. Both are deeply honest and are self-depreciating hahaha. This is hard because both types are likely to be 9s... so yeah, that makes it even harder to tell apart. So I would also like to think on this more. If you have any insight, please let me know!

 

[VagrantFarce]

I'm curious - how does any of this relate to the actual act of sensing? How does it differ from Se? How is it similar?

 

[Yama]

I'm curious - how does any of this relate to the actual act of sensing? How does it differ from Se? How is it similar?

As I am not Se, and could be wrong, so any Se-users, please correct me if I am wrong when talking about my understanding of Se.

Se is more outward/physical when it senses. It's more literal. Being a Pe function, when it takes in new information, it takes it in more concretely. Si being a Pi function, when it senses, instead of being outward and objective, it is focused inward and is subjective. Obviously everyone of every type uses their 5 literal senses, but when Se does it, it perceives what is happening in the now, seeing it exactly for what it is, and when Si perceives, it is filtered through the self and given subjective meaning.

A rather simplistic example would be an Se user seeing a dog as a dog, independent of their other experiences with dogs, whereas an Si user would see a dog as an enemy because when they were 5 they had a bad experience with a dog and now they can't help but see all dogs as bad, even though this dog in particular is sweet and had nothing to do with that.

I encourage anyone to correct me if they feel that I'm wrong and add in to the discussion!

 

[EJCC]

[MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION] That seems accurate.

I have known people who confused Ni and Si because both description involve seeing the world through a subjective set of filters, associations, patterns, and meanings.

This is probably a very 1w2 example, but I've told folks that the way I use Si feels like if you had the ability to see Platonic "forms". So you're not just looking at, say, a chair, but also the form of the chair, its ideal, and how the chair you're looking at measures up to it.

 

[Gogol]

What are some ways to develop Si in accordance with the definition you provide ? (most info out there seems to conflate Si with being conservative and not so much about introverted perceiving information based on personal relevance)

 

[Yama]

What are some ways to develop Si in accordance with the definition you provide ? (most info out there seems to conflate Si with being conservative and not so much about introverted perceiving information based on personal relevance)

Sorry for taking forever to get back to you here! School's got me busy all the time, but I have been meaning to come back to this.

It's rather hard to give advice on developing Si, because as a perceiving function, it's hardly helpful to tell someone to just "perceive more."

That, as well as the fact that as my dominant function, it happens so unconsciously and naturally that it is very describe how to actively make oneself use it. So I have been thinking about this question quite a bit since first reading this post.

But this is truly what makes answering this question so difficult. With functions like Fe, you can give advice on how to develop it--how so with an introverted perceiving function? Telling someone to do something broad and abstract like "Just build up a mental storehouse of knowledge" doesn't seem effective nor accurate.

Instead, I can only offer small pieces of advice that might tickle your Si more so than actively work to develop and strengthen it in a practical way, as I'm not so sure one exists (it might, but it is very hard for me to see). Take a trip down memory lane--go rewatch your favorite movie or reread your favorite book from childhood, look at an old family photo album or video, talk to some close relatives of yours about "old times." None of these really have any practical purpose; however, as an Si use, what I have noticed about myself and the other Si-doms that I personally know outside of this forum is that we can be very sentimental. Perhaps revisiting some older activities or memories from when you were younger will give your auxiliary Si a little nudge?

Of course, Si is more than just past/memories. But as a Pi function, I'm not sure what else might be done to actively try to strengthen and develop it. But you may at the very least find it entertaining and your Si might appreciate it. I can't speak for others, but I myself find my Si tugging me to revisit my old favorite a lot--my favorite movie when I was in preschool was Alice in Wonderland, and to this day it holds a special meaning to me.

 

[Poki]

Sorry for taking forever to get back to you here! School's got me busy all the time, but I have been meaning to come back to this.

It's rather hard to give advice on developing Si, because as a perceiving function, it's hardly helpful to tell someone to just "perceive more."

That, as well as the fact that as my dominant function, it happens so unconsciously and naturally that it is very describe how to actively make oneself use it. So I have been thinking about this question quite a bit since first reading this post.

But this is truly what makes answering this question so difficult. With functions like Fe, you can give advice on how to develop it--how so with an introverted perceiving function? Telling someone to do something broad and abstract like "Just build up a mental storehouse of knowledge" doesn't seem effective nor accurate.

Instead, I can only offer small pieces of advice that might tickle your Si more so than actively work to develop and strengthen it in a practical way, as I'm not so sure one exists (it might, but it is very hard for me to see). Take a trip down memory lane--go rewatch your favorite movie or reread your favorite book from childhood, look at an old family photo album or video, talk to some close relatives of yours about "old times." None of these really have any practical purpose; however, as an Si use, what I have noticed about myself and the other Si-doms that I personally know outside of this forum is that we can be very sentimental. Perhaps revisiting some older activities or memories from when you were younger will give your auxiliary Si a little nudge?

Of course, Si is more than just past/memories. But as a Pi function, I'm not sure what else might be done to actively try to strengthen and develop it. But you may at the very least find it entertaining and your Si might appreciate it. I can't speak for others, but I myself find my Si tugging me to revisit my old favorite a lot--my favorite movie when I was in preschool was Alice in Wonderland, and to this day it holds a special meaning to me.

I would say go and and build those memories and then relive them...sounds like a healthy way to do what you say. Make sure as you look back on life you enjoy looking back.

My mom suggested to me once to go talk with my cousins and reconnect about the old times. I looked at her and said what's the point, they have changed and I really don't enjoy them much anymore. We have gone down different paths in life and I don't want to live in the past and our futures are heading in different directions. Let them have their fun and I will have mine and live my life. I think I fail big time at Si...lol

 

[Yama]

I would say go and and build those memories and then relive them...sounds like a healthy way to do what you say. Make sure as you look back on life you enjoy looking back.

My mom suggested to me once to go talk with my cousins and reconnect about the old times. I looked at her and said what's the point, they have changed and I really don't enjoy them much anymore. We have gone down different paths in life and I don't want to live in the past and our futures are heading in different directions. Let them have their fun and I will have mine and live my life. I think I fail big time at Si...lol

I once had the chance to reconnect with a childhood friend of mine. We were the closest of friends and I have such fond memories of playing every day--classic "best friends who live across the street from each other" scenario--but she moved away. Many years later, she came back for a visit... and of course she was nothing like she was before. She'd grown up! And we were much too different now. It actually made me really sad, not because the "current her" was unbearable or anything, and certainly not because I expected her to be the exact same person--but because it was a reality check that so much time had passed and those "good times" were far behind us now.

I have a harder time letting go of things, I wish they would just stay the way I want them to stay.

 

[Poki]

I once had the chance to reconnect with a childhood friend of mine. We were the closest of friends and I have such fond memories of playing every day--classic "best friends who live across the street from each other" scenario--but she moved away. Many years later, she came back for a visit... and of course she was nothing like she was before. She'd grown up! And we were much too different now. It actually made me really sad, not because the "current her" was unbearable or anything, and certainly not because I expected her to be the exact same person--but because it was a reality check that so much time had passed and those "good times" were far behind us now.

I have a harder time letting go of things, I wish they would just stay the way I want them to stay.

My cousins were like childhood friends. Then they moved to the bad part of town and went downhill and I made something of my life. We went years and years without even talking. I suck at long distance communication. So we really didn't have much common ground. It really was nothing to let go like that and I have just become very distant from that side of my family because of it. It drives my mom nuts, but I am just really different then they are and I would rather find people I really get along with and enjoy instead of making myself hang out doing things I don't really enjoy.

 

[Yama]

I'm reviving this because it's important.

 

[Pionart]

Yes, this is why I thought I was Si dominant, partly anyway. I don't know what type I am now, if I (read: anyone) have a type at all.

I will post my Utilitarian interpretation of MBTI in another thread soon, but when I applied my theory, I could see why I seemed like an ISTJ.

See, so much of what I do is done to preserve my inner state of peace. This is different to what you are describing, but I think the principle is the same. I am conserving how I am in the moment, and I am conserving my energy.

Politically, I used to refer to myself as conservative, partly in a humorous way, because some of my highest ideals are conservation of the environment, and conservation of human achievements. I hate the idea of something great being lost, never to be found again.

I've been described both as close minded and open minded, though I think this is a P vs J thing rather than an N vs S thing, and all I am doing is reflecting the other person back to them. I reflect people without even realising that I am doing it. I notice that I act differently around different people, because subjectively it feels like the appropriate way to act around that person. What I don't tend to quite grasp, is that I am simply acting like them.

Si is not so much averse to change, but its basic mechanism is contrary to change. Basically, Si, though also wanting things to be better, can only act by stopping things from getting worse. This is the introverts dilemma.

There is also another aspect of Si, a more cognitive aspect, which I will explain later (although I've explained it before in previous posts), and see if I have a better idea of why it accompanies conservation.

 

[Yama]

I hate the idea of something great being lost, never to be found again.

Like the Library of Alexandria, right?! I'll never not be upset by that.

Si is not so much averse to change, but its basic mechanism is contrary to change. Basically, Si, though also wanting things to be better, can only act by stopping things from getting worse. This is the introverts dilemma.

Yeah, I can relate to this. I mean, if I had my way, I'd make it so I didn't have all these major life changes occur in my life. The times that there have been the most change (and I don't at all mean politically, I mean in a "my everyday life, routines and habits are changing" way--like graduating from high school) have been the times I have been at my most depressed and anxious.

My gut reaction is to reject it and keep living my life the way I always do, if I am comfortable with the way it is now. (If I'm not comfortable with something, then hell yeah bring on that change!!!). I go into inferior-Ne panic mode and it doesn't end well.

As I grow older, and my Ne develops more, I will become more adaptable and will react better to change. My "bad change" experience all involve graduating from one school and going to a completely new one--elementary to high school, high school to community college, community college to university. I get very stressed out because I don't know what to expect, and I have to be prepared. I know it will happen again once I graduate from university and enter the "real world."

However, this all revolves around my lifestyle. It uproots my habits and routines and makes me start all over again.

Thus, I don't like when it gets equated to being (politically) conservative or "traditional." The two aren't mutually exclusive. One can be an Si type and conservative, liberal, independent, anything. I am also not religious, though I probably get assumed for someone who is because "Si is traditional"--just look in the philosophy subforum, ISFJs are voted (mostly by NFs and NTs, who compromise most of this forum) as "the type most likely to serve a religious cause." Of course an SJ can be religious and conservative, but they are not all that way. Just like how all NTs aren't scientists and not all SPs are "artists" etc.

Basically, I don't like that Si has stereotypes that come with these automatic assumptions that for some reason many seem unable to shake. I see an astounding amount of SJ hate (this forum's pretty tame), mostly because of these stereotypes of "omg SJs are so traditional and close-minded they live in the past and I hate them ugh like it's 2016!!" without realizing that yeah, we know... Stop judging all SJs as terrible based on some bad interactions with your ESFJ mom who was born in another time period and thus values different things... that's generational... not Si.