How to add Ti to my Fi

[Florence Atley]

Hi! So, apparently my Fe (my automatic system of observations becoming beliefs through trusting unconscious patterns which generally hold to be true) is so dominate I barely have any Ti at all (intentional linear thinking and logical deduction). For the record, I think my Te is pretty healthy, it's the Ti that seems to be the problem. I know that Fe might always be my automatic operating system, but I desperately need to grow in Ti so that I'm not so... detached and confusing? I'm hoping Ti types might be able to give me a few pointers:

1. Is philosophy the best way to grow in logical reasoning?
2. Is Ti automatic and unconscious, or do you take specific steps while using linear thinking?
3. What would be the first step when using Ti to answer a question?
4. With Ti, how do you know you have achieved a satisfactory conclusion?
5. With Ti, are you more confident in your assertions, or are you more curious to have the issue challenged again to refine it?
6. Is Ti specifically details build the big picture, or can Ti be used starting with the big picture then breaking it down to analyze it?

Thanks in advance! <3

 

[giorgaros2]

Can you give me an example of how you use Fi because i am bit confused

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Te is efficiency and action. Te is about external knowledge. Ti is accuracy. Ti is about true and false. Ti is about finding some truth, even if everyone else accepts the norm.

As an INFJ you use Fe. Fe is just about feelings and emotions. It is about meaning of things in the world. Fe understands group dynamics. It sees solutions and decisions. It is understanding of other things.

Now whatever Fi you have is going to be secondary to your Fe.

But Ti is the connected function to your Fe. It is your internal sense of what is true and what is false. Combined with Ni and Fe, Ti helps you to get when things are wrong. Errors and misconceptions are glaring.

Ti is in your third position. It is on par with a 10 year old when compared to Ni. It is your play function.

As such, use Ti for fun stuff and relaxation. Do logic problems or suduko. It will de-stress you and can grow as you play with it.

Te is your trickster function. It will mess with you. Te talk will bother you and confuse you.

Fi is your bad parent. It will feel like it is criticizing you.

The opposing functions of our Dom and aux need not be weak. But they are opposing....and often negative and painful.

 

[giorgaros2]

Or you may be INFP ,

 

[Florence Atley]

[MENTION=26669]giorgaros2[/MENTION]

So my Fe is put together with my Ni to be how I think, right? So the best way I can describe it is that it's kind of like having a muse instead of a brain. I often feel more like a conduit than a person. So basically (for me) it works like this: Basically, once I really understand something on a deeper level (through endlessly researching what 'experts' have to say on the subject), it becomes part of my web of understanding, a kind of filter that I unconsciously use to automatically understand things around me.

When I have incoming information, I just kind of instinctively 'know' my web of understanding filter is rejecting it. I don't know why yet. I just know. So I start holding up the various principles I know to be true, until I see the principle that seems to be rejecting it. Then I look at the two principles until I see what aspect is causing the problem. It's all very abstract and the best way I can describe it is like those people who are really good at finding seashells on the beach. It's not that you're scanning every grain of sand to find the shell, you just kind of relax your eyes and let your brain automatically find the shell that's 'out of place' in the clean beach.

To use a concrete example, if someone were telling me about centripetal force, my brain would automatically start scanning for related 'big picture' principles such as gravitational force of the sun, water displacement, etc, until I settle on one that seems to be the most related… probably gravitational force of the sun. Then I would kind of… see the earth tugged by the sun and the water staying in the bucket, and I would notice the differences and similarities between the two images in my head until I realize they're probably not the same thing because the sun is pulling whereas the water seems to be pushed. But now I have my starting point and my mind would go off trying to find principles related to the water being 'pushed' by movement… perhaps velocity?

So that's how it works. I'm not surprised if you're still confused, hence my desire for Ti

 

[Florence Atley]

As for the INFP thing, I have some qualities of that type, except I spend much more time thinking than relating... and unfortunately I tend to suck really bad at relating. Here's a cool way this site put it:

INFJ
The dominant process is Introverted Intuition, or “Perspectives.” Perspectives is a learning function (technically called a “perceiving function”), and works by watching one’s own mind form patterns. After years of use, eventually Perspectives begins to see the ‘pattern of the patterns’ and understands that what is happening inside of themselves cognitively is also happening for other people.

INFP
They lead with a process called Introverted Feeling, or “Authenticity.” Authenticity is a decision-making function (technically called a “judging function”), and works by being deeply in touch with how one is emotionally impacted by events. Decisions are made by “checking in” to ensure that they are in alignment with one’s values and identity.
INFP vs INFJ: 5 Surprising Differences To Tell Them Apart : Personality Hacker

From these two, I'm definitely more Ni than Fi.

 

[Florence Atley]

You're totally right about my Fi and Ti! LOL! So, using the Ti for play, huh? I've gotten a couple of philosophy books, trying to learn how to think in a straight line at pace. The books are sooooo fun to read. But as soon as I start trying to make my brain stop and do what it says, it's so frustrating. My brain just wants to run around and connect the dots itself, and getting down to one thought process and maintaining it is exhausting! It's so much work. I think you're right about practicing, but it's so annoying I want to make sure philosophy is the most efficient way to go, because it is a lot of work!

Super interesting stuff, SearchingForPeace. I'm gonna have to spend a little time researching everything you said so I can understand it

 

[SearchingforPeace]

You're totally right about my Fi and Ti! LOL! So, using the Ti for play, huh? I've gotten a couple of philosophy books, trying to learn how to think in a straight line at pace. The books are sooooo fun to read. But as soon as I start trying to make my brain stop and do what it says, it's so frustrating. My brain just wants to run around and connect the dots itself, and getting down to one thought process and maintaining it is exhausting! It's so much work. I think you're right about practicing, but it's so annoying I want to make sure philosophy is the most efficient way to go, because it is a lot of work!

Super interesting stuff, SearchingForPeace. I'm gonna have to spend a little time researching everything you said so I can understand it

Glad you found it interesting.

If you have never gone here, I would recommend doing so, exploring the 4 different areas. I linked to the INFJ growth page.

Don't worry about developing your shadow functions too much, as your primary 4 need your focus.

And if have never gone here, spend some time, especially with the INFJ handbook section.

Happy studies

 

[Florence Atley]

I never even considered getting better at being like me as a solution for being too much me - it makes sense now that you mention it. That does seem to be one of my biggest problems: I totally suck at Occam's razor (is that an INFJ thing, too?), LOL! Thanks for the links.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I never even considered getting better at being like me as a solution for being too much me - it makes sense now that you mention it. That does seem to be one of my biggest problems: I totally suck at Occam's razor (is that an INFJ thing, too?), LOL! Thanks for the links.

We need to become our best version of ourselves to find happiness. It cures much of our problems in life.

And yes, sometimes NFJs search for too much meaning

 

[Florence Atley]

So I'm looking through those web pages you linked to, and although they're totally right about me needing to get more in touch with my feelings because my Ni tends to overshadow them, I still want to be an amazing thinker!! I'm more into writing and innovating than gooey relationship stuff (am I a bad person?), and I need some concrete thought patterns to balance out my free-association approach to life. Any advice for that?

 

[cascadeco]

So I'm looking through those web pages you linked to, and although they're totally right about me needing to get more in touch with my feelings because my Ni tends to overshadow them, I still want to be an amazing thinker!! I'm more into writing and innovating than gooey relationship stuff (am I a bad person?), and I need some concrete thought patterns to balance out my free-association approach to life. Any advice for that?

Buy logic puzzle books?

 

[Florence Atley]

So brainteasers, right? I wasn't actually familiar with the term 'logic puzzles' and those look like great fun, so thanks! The problem I'm having is that I'm already pretty good at solving riddles (logic puzzle riddle style as well), but I do it with a really weird pattern recognition thing that I can't explain to other people. So as long as people just want a simple answer from me I'm fine, but when I'm trying to explain how I did it, I can't. I used to always get in trouble in math class for not showing my work for the same reason. So really, my problem isn't that I can't problem solve, it's that I don't know how to problem solve like other people do. Or at least be able to explain my reasoning to people in a way that makes the slightest bit of sense to them.

 

[cascadeco]

So brainteasers, right? I wasn't actually familiar with the term 'logic puzzles' and those look like great fun, so thanks! The problem I'm having is that I'm already pretty good at solving riddles (logic puzzle riddle style as well), but I do it with a really weird pattern recognition thing that I can't explain to other people. So as long as people just want a simple answer from me I'm fine, but when I'm trying to explain how I did it, I can't. I used to always get in trouble in math class for not showing my work for the same reason. So really, my problem isn't that I can't problem solve, it's that I don't know how to problem solve like other people do. Or at least be able to explain my reasoning to people in a way that makes the slightest bit of sense to them.

Well the types of puzzles I'm referring to won't allow for 'weird pattern recognition'. They may give a series of statements that you have to contruct together to come up with a specific answer. Like, ordering 7 people in the correct order based on their clothing, or other statements made that help you come up with the answer. It's not like a one-line brainteaser, and they're definitely not riddles, or anything. You can find these types of puzzles in books in a bookstore, like in the crossword or suduko section.

 

[giorgaros2]

You have totally confused me lol My bet would be INFP or someone with Ne and Si because you search info from outside(like reading books etc) to integrate into a web of understanding Si-(subjective view of the world based on memory) , but i could be wrong.IMO Ni-Se works differently, Ni creates an understanding without needing too much outside info (like imagination etc).So if you fuel your understanding by taking a constant flow of new info then you use Ne-Si , i dont know if that makes sense lol.

Also a friend of mine was INFJ and although i know no INFJ is the same , you may relate to characteristics of his personality:
Lets see, he was sensitive to aesthetics.For example if a music he didnt like was playing on the background he was losing energy (lol)
Also we saw the world with same eyes , we both didnt take most things very seriously because we were always looking at the big picture so if you always search for the big picture everything that people take for granted and wory about appears small and insignificant and is made fun of.

Also another tip is that many INFP's i have known are a bit nostalgic and are a little stuck in the past (like an INFP friend was obsessed with old music and michael jackson)

 

[Florence Atley]

Yes, I knew what you meant - Google image search "logic puzzle," right? I'm usually pretty decent at that stuff, it's just that I see principles in the form of pictures which come together to form solutions rather than intentionally using learned rules to deduce conclusions. The logic puzzles look really fun (and I'm sure I'll be on that kick for a while now ), it's just that I don't think they'll be useful for rewiring my brain so that I make sense to other people. I'm wondering if something like this would teach me the rules most people use to think by:


An Illustrated Book of Bad Arguments: Ali Almossawi, Alejandro Giraldo: 9781615192250: Amazon.com: Books

 

[SearchingforPeace]

So I'm looking through those web pages you linked to, and although they're totally right about me needing to get more in touch with my feelings because my Ni tends to overshadow them, I still want to be an amazing thinker!! I'm more into writing and innovating than gooey relationship stuff (am I a bad person?), and I need some concrete thought patterns to balance out my free-association approach to life. Any advice for that?

I am a kick ass thinker, quickier than any person that I know, learning and understanding faster than anyone else, from preschool to grad school.

Fe is a cognitive process, not just gooey relationship stuff. It is a search for meaning. Writing and innovation are prime Fe stuff. NFJ are amazing thinkers. We see more than anyone, we understand better than others. Places like CalTech have lots of INFJs.

When I was younger, I thought I was just a logical thinker. I now recently realized that "thinking" has little to do with having lots of thoughts in your head.

Don't worry about being a "thinker". Just be the best version of you.

 

[Florence Atley]

You have totally confused me lol My bet would be INFP or someone with Ne and Si because you search info from outside(like reading books etc) to integrate into a web of understanding Si-(subjective view of the world based on memory) , but i could be wrong.IMO Ni-Se works differently, Ni creates an understanding without needing too much outside info (like imagination etc).So if you fuel your understanding by taking a constant flow of new info then you use Ne-Si , i dont know if that makes sense lol.

I'm sorry. I suck at explaining this (see why I want to learn how to communicate like a normal person!?) So I do totally get what you're saying. I'm not positive I'm an INFJ, I just took the best quiz I could find and when it said INFJ I looked it up and it seems to know me better than my own mother. As for Ne, I'm pretty sure I suck at that, because I barely notice my physical surroundings (like, ever). I'm practically blind to physical reality unless I'm actively working on a project, and even then I'm seeing the possibilities more than the actual object. As for Si, I actually do use that quite a bit. That's a possibility. However, I do think I would be more Ni than Si, just because Si seems to be data which is tangible and reliable, and although that is the information I generally tend to rely on, once I internalize it as a belief, it ceases to be either tangible or reliable, but abstract and always subject to improvement. I've been called a "Skeptic" by a philosopher friend, which is apparently a bad thing because Skeptics are irrational and crazy

Also a friend of mine was INFJ and although i know no INFJ is the same , you may relate to characteristics of his personality:
Lets see, he was sensitive to aesthetics.For example if a music he didnt like was playing on the background he was losing energy (lol)
Also we saw the world with same eyes , we both didnt take most things very seriously because we were always looking at the big picture so if you always search for the big picture everything that people take for granted and wory about appears small and insignificant and is made fun of.

Yep. That's totally me.

 

[Florence Atley]

[MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION]: so do you think in free-association (if that's the right word - do you know what I'm talking about)? If so, how do you explain your "aha realizations" so that other people understand why you believe the way that you do? Most of the people in my life are super skeptical about new information, especially if it is from a seeming romantic ditz like myself. How do you explain your thoughts so that people can challenge you based on what you're saying instead of what you appear to be saying, and how do you fill in the blanks between the dots in your thinking so they can determine the validity of your claims?

 

[giorgaros2]

When you have a debate are you more prone to quoting authors or saying things like "X said that and Y said that"
If yes then the probabilities that you use Ne instead of Ni are higher

So about using Ti...just try to understand how things work,ime Ni with Ti creates insights of how things are under the surface ,if you want to use more Ti , ponder of how things really are under the surface.For example look at a person and try to categorize him and try to understand how he works using MBTI theory.MBTI itself is a very Ti thing.