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[MBTI General] INNER WORLDS (INxJ) - NiTi vs NiFi

BeyondTheGrey

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Hello,
I would like to know the differences between the inner world of the INTJ and the INFJ. Considering the fact that they're both Ni dominant, How would Fi and Ti play out in their inner world. Whats the difference?

By inner world I'm referring to inner thoughts, processes. I'm disregarding the external/extraverted functions like Fe and Te. I am aware of their existence, I would just want to know how the other introverted/internal functions of the INFJ, Ti, and INTJ, Fi, affect their innermost thoughts, considering the fact that they are both Ni dominant. I would appreciate constructive answers, really.
 
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BeyondTheGrey

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Come on, 80 plus views and no replies. I need data.
 

BeyondTheGrey

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deleted.
 
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Amargith

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Err...Ok, well INTJs are NiTe, not NiTi. Infjs are NiFe, not NiFi :)

However, if you get an INTJ stuck in a tertiary loop, he can appear NiFi and if you get an INFJ stuck in a tertiary loop, they can appear NiTi :D


You may want to start with a look at the function roles and positions in both types and come back for more specific questions :thinking:
 

Forever

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The inner worlds have no words. :heart: :blush:
 

Jaguar

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An inner idealist (INTJ) and an inner theorist (INFJ).
 

21%

You have a choice!
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It's kinda difficult to answer because the question is a bit vague. If you're stuck in the NiTi loop it feels like a perfectly logical closed system. You have explanations for everything and you are very convinced you are right, but somehow you feel something is lacking and you try to logic your way out of it, to no avail... ?
 

Florence Atley

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Hey! So... keeping in mind that it is impossible to really understand the inner world of other types, since it is something which has to be experienced to be understood, I feel I can shed some light on this topic. I have been best friends with a male INTJ for going on 10 years.

INTJs and INFJs can talk for hours and hours and never get bored. We both use complex and seemingly ambiguous modes of thought, so we get each other. Most people miss much of what I say, but the INTJ sees the connections I'm making (which is a really good thing because when INTJs think you have flawed reasoning, they merrily bludgeon you with it).

The chemistry is very stimulating and compatible for the most part. We're both comfortable not discussing emotions and menial details about life. We don't get uptight or hold grudges because our inner worlds are waaaay too intense to deal with interpersonal drama. He is absorbed in perfecting his thinking, formulations and judgements, and I am totally wrapped up in intense feeling, collecting aha moments and labeling things good or bad. We both enjoy developing intense and complex abstract ideas, so we never run out of things to talk about. We're also both pretty evenly matched power-wise in the conversation.

The differences are huge, though!!!

I'm romantically and passionately drawn to people, personal growth and empathy. I can be engaging and warm as long as I don't have to compete for time. I'm frequently confused by peoples' interest in things that can't save the world, so I often get quiet and just pointed one-liners (which are usually unnoticed) or just reflect my empathy for them. I don't like to talk about my interests with people who don't get it, because unity is more enjoyable to me. I'd rather write books, songs and make paintings so they can choose to be benefited by my ideas on their own timetable. Seemingly out of character, I sometimes accidentally boil over into a passionate diatribe, which really confuses people since I'm normally super self-effacing and even-keeled. I've lost many acquaintances this way. But really I'm just trying to change their mind about something to prevent them or someone else from getting hurt.

The INTJ is an orchestrater and a laid-back comedian, sometimes stepping on the toes of others with critical statements or insensitive humor which people forgive him for due to his intense charisma and genuine goodwill toward others. He is a self-contained unit emotionally, but he relies on social interaction to get his inspiration flowing and to throw various data at him to ponder over. He also loves having a bouncing board, which I understand because ideas can get pretty complex and chaotic when you live in a world of abstractions. Although he can off as rude or antiseptic at times, underneath it all he has intense goodwill toward others, so he has many loyal friends and great relationships with family members.

In some ways, both INFJs and INTJs are socially charismatic and inspiring, and they can both be overwhelming when they speak from the heart, which is why we don't do it too often. Also, both INTJs and INFJs have the interests of other people at heart and they both (arrogantly) believe that other people would be better off if they would embrace our knowledge.

The INTJ is more interested in obsessing over the information itself to refine a perfectly objective mind to improve the objective world, whereas the INFJ is busy obsessively reading people to understand the variations in the human element, which is the only way to create large-scale solutions for large-scale groups if you want to include subjective solutions as well as objective ones. It is quite difficult to harmonize the discrepancies between subjective and objective truth, which is why INFJs often seem to be a conundrum, and it takes a lot of focus to rationalize so much while talking to people to gain understanding, which is why we're often misconstrued as ditzy or 'off'. The INTJ doesn't so much bother with the subjective stuff (all his subjective truths are objective, LOL!), so he seems vastly more put together until he goes off on a tangent about conspiracy theories, that is.

The INTJ sees himself as a bearer of truth. He sees the world in terms of true and false and believes he can singlehandedly deduce anything using systematic logic. He never talks about his feelings, so I can't tell you much about that aspect. The INFJ is almost always overwhelming caught up in a tide of feelings and profound meanings, and when I communicate with others I can hardly see them for who they are through my cloud of thought. Some see me as emotionally detached, and I am, but only because I feel so much for them that I have to keep my emotions tightly reined in just to function and actively problem-solve.

The INTJ is not bothered by conflict or relational issues. He deals in logic, not subjective truths. His dealings with people focus on tasks and black and white truth. The INTJ doesn't seem to get drained in social settings as much as he gets bored. As an INFJ, I am unbearably disturbed by relational conflict. So much so that I spend much of my time hiding behind closed doors, or at least hiding any part of myself that isn't theoretical or abstract (similar to the INTJ). I hide my needs and focus on others. This is a summary for why I get drained in social situations.

The one warning I would give for relationships between these types is that if the INFJ gets disrespected or feels useless, or if the INTJ gets disappointed in her or feels neglected, the fights can be complete and total meltdowns, and it is fairly easy for both types to pack up and move on with their lives.

[Note: If you know any INTJs, you know that my friend would abundantly critique every observation I've made about him, so you may have to ask and INTJ for a true insight into the matter :) ]

Sorry for the long post, I hope that is helpful!
 

Om_mama

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I would also like to know what an infj stuck in loop and an intj stuck in loop would look like.
What kind of mental illness or instability could it portray.

I have yet to find any answers.....
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Interesting thread. I will do my best to explain my inner world.

It feels like building a ship on the open seas or a space station while in orbit. The vastness and unknowable nature of reality is overwhelming, but there is a need to make sense of it - to build my little logical structures within it. At times it feels futile, but the best approach I've come up with is to observe and create internal, logical continuums that extend towards mutually exclusive conceptual endpoints. I focus on these contrasts or ironies in all things and am almost unable to think categorically. Categories within the context of infinity can look like nonsense.

The ability to constantly look at opposites or ironies is something I apply instinctually to observing human nature in myself and others. Because of this I observe people based on the coherency or dichotomies of their words, behaviors, and overall feelings of presence. It aids in spotting hypocrisy and also manipulation tactics, which often relies on creating disorientation in the other person by presenting them with subtle, sometimes unconscious inconsistencies.

My internal Ni-Ti world is not cold and distant because my concept of reality is not just the physical universe. My reality is a myriad parallel universes, each existing in what we call the individual. I don't see everything inside of other people, but catch glimpses, enough to know it is a different universe inside them. Individuals look like this:


bdf0e67115aa6abd2161a9eab4c61751.jpg


And the whole of reality:
images


There are dichotomies within myself as well, mutually opposed processes for dealing with reality, and I analyze these continually to gain clear insight into my own emotional framework. One of these dichotomies is overwhelm vs detachment. I do get flooded with sensory and emotional impact of reality almost like someone with autism on sensory overload, and so there is a way I detach inside. That detachment does not diminish compassion or feeling exactly, but it makes me an observer again rather than a participant. It feels a lot like the descriptions of near death experiences when a person leaves their body, and views the room from above. It isn't that they no longer care, but their perspective on the scenario changes vantage points.
 

Jellyfish1234

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At times it feels futile, but the best approach I've come up with is to observe and create internal, logical continuums that extend towards mutually exclusive conceptual endpoints. I focus on these contrasts or ironies in all things and am almost unable to think categorically.

Could you explain what exactly you mean by this please? It's very interesting for me but I got a bit lost at this point haha.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Could you explain what exactly you mean by this please? It's very interesting for me but I got a bit lost at this point haha.
I also meant to explain that I don't think categorical thinking itself is absurd at all - it is the way to process large amounts of data within a specific context, but I personally have trouble with it based on how I view the world. Always trying to factor in a picture too big for the issue at hand could also be considered absurd, but I have an inclination to try.

To start with what is closest - I am always testing the MBTI categories in terms of the mutually exclusive continuums like F <--> T or Fi <--> Fe and am always questioning whether or not they are actually mutually exclusive or if it is more accurate to reconstruct the continuums. Then when someone declares association with one of those categories I never assume that they fit every trait, but observe to see where they fall on that continuum. The absolute endpoints are conceptual - no one can be 100% T to the complete exclusion of F, as an example.

Then politically I don't adhere to one ideology, but try to understand how the different points of views are constructed on a continuum like top-down power structures vs bottom-up. I don't see communism as a political category, but instead a philosophy that falls in the direction of one endpoint on a continuum. When a country becomes communist I do not see them as falling into a category or box, but see them as falling on the continuum of an ideology then being overlayed on an existing culture with other power structures and assumptions already in place. Political ideologies could be compared to the microcosm of marriage, which as an ideal is one thing, but when imposed on reality, there are as many different versions of it as there are people engaging in it. (I'm not for or against any of these systems, so I hope this doesn't descend into political debate. Instead I use it as a distinct example because it is normalized to think categorically about politics.)

Concepts are only pure at their conceptual endpoints which tend to not be realistic. When applied to reality everything falls somewhere on the continuum, and then to understand anything, you have to break it down into all its component parts or continuums. This is a visual representation of how I try to logically understand anything - if you assume each line is constructed with mutually exclusive concepts at each endpoint. You observe where something falls on each continuum and then look for the point where it all intersects.

I don't claim this is the one true way, and I don't share my thinking with most people. All I can do is describe what does go on in my brain.
images
 

Jellyfish1234

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I also meant to explain that I don't think categorical thinking itself is absurd at all - it is the way to process large amounts of data within a specific context, but I personally have trouble with it based on how I view the world. Always trying to factor in a picture too big for the issue at hand could also be considered absurd, but I have an inclination to try.

To start with what is closest - I am always testing the MBTI categories in terms of the mutually exclusive continuums like F <--> T or Fi <--> Fe and am always questioning whether or not they are actually mutually exclusive or if it is more accurate to reconstruct the continuums. Then when someone declares association with one of those categories I never assume that they fit every trait, but observe to see where they fall on that continuum. The absolute endpoints are conceptual - no one can be 100% T to the complete exclusion of F, as an example.

Then politically I don't adhere to one ideology, but try to understand how the different points of views are constructed on a continuum like top-down power structures vs bottom-up. I don't see communism as a political category, but instead a philosophy that falls in the direction of one endpoint on a continuum. When a country becomes communist I do not see them as falling into a category or box, but see them as falling on the continuum of an ideology then being overlayed on an existing culture with other power structures and assumptions already in place. Political ideologies could be compared to the microcosm of marriage, which as an ideal is one thing, but when imposed on reality, there are as many different versions of it as there are people engaging in it. (I'm not for or against any of these systems, so I hope this doesn't descend into political debate. Instead I use it as a distinct example because it is normalized to think categorically about politics.)

Concepts are only pure at their conceptual endpoints which tend to not be realistic. When applied to reality everything falls somewhere on the continuum, and then to understand anything, you have to break it down into all its component parts or continuums. This is a visual representation of how I try to logically understand anything - if you assume each line is constructed with mutually exclusive concepts at each endpoint. You observe where something falls on each continuum and then look for the point where it all intersects.

I don't claim this is the one true way, and I don't share my thinking with most people. All I can do is describe what does go on in my brain.
images

Ohh, I see, that's really interesting, thank you. I think your view of the world definitely leaks through onto the forums because I've noticed that your posts usually are questioning the idea of fitting people into certain categories based on a theory, and questioning how it fairs out in reality, and believing that everyone falls somewhere on a kind of 'continuum' but being intelligently critical about the idea of assuming people are a certain way due to where they are placed theoretically and understanding the influences of other things rooted in reality too. Anyway, thank you for clarifying, that's really interesting.

Personally I have a tendency to try to categorize things - as in, I find myself making sense of the world by putting things into categories and organizing things in my head, such as "they're this <insert general type of person>", but I dislike doing it because I know it's a very limited and ignorant view of things, so it's like my brain finds it easier to understand concepts when I categorize them but at the same time I catch myself out when doing it and have to remind myself that things aren't that simple. So your view is kind of fascinating to me haha, and it's like what I strive to think like.
 
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