[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Developing auxiliary function - suggestions needed

[strychnine]

Suggestions/tips on how to develop auxiliary functions...

Judging types:

Ji-dominants (IxxP) to develop auxiliary Pe

Je-dominants (ExxJ) to develop auxiliary Pi

Perceiving types:

Pi-dominants (IxxJ) to develop auxiliary Je

Pe-dominants (ExxP) to develop auxiliary Ji

I can barely see my auxiliary function. It has fallen asleep at the wheel. I'm not even in a dominant-tertiary loop, as I can't really see my tertiary function either; I just seem to be missing all functions other than my dominant Ji (idk whether it's Ti or Fi).

How do I reconnect with my auxiliary extraverted function? And how would an extravert reconnect with their auxiliary introverted function?

 

[Amargith]

Your auxiliary function is the one you use to love others and your bridge to reality.

Say, for instance, you meet an INFP - they tend to be a bit shy at first, but when they open up to you, they do it with word games, puns, irony and funny remarks. That's aux Ne at its best - they engage others with it AND often, it's not as overwhelming as being near an Ne dom. An Ne dom is also not as personable with his or her Ne, as the Ne is their main view on the world, not their way of connecting with people, whereas an INFP will use Ne more to tune into the other people there. Similarly, INFPs will use Ne to complete the pieces of the Fi puzzle their dom needs, to find those hidden treasures and balance out that Fi world map with current and actionable information about life. An INFP who does not engage her Ne will therefore also find herself alienated from the world and their Fi map based on hot air and navel gazing alone - aka not very representative of the actual world around them.

ENFPs, in contrast, use Fi to connect with the world - their Fi is personable, and the typical vulnerability and need for understanding that aux Fi gives off is used to connect with those around them - compare it to a Fi-dom, who tend to be a lot more heavy handed, structurally sound in their values and less vulnerable in the Fi department, because it is used as a world view (and way to analyse life) and less so as a connection tool. ENFPs will use Fi also to determine how they should value the outside world with regards to what is important to *them* and their loved ones. Again, they use Fi to inform their decisions on their Ne-world map view - without it, the ENFP may never decide on what they like and be very reluctant to ever commit to anything but a buffet style of just information gathering and never any actual focus on any area.

Now, if you're ISFP, you would use Se to connect with the world. That would mean that you will balance out your Fi-dom view with actual, factual data from the real world. You love others by engaging them in the moment, doing fun things together, having them inspire you as much as you inspire them and letting them influence and inform your values and view on the world. It also allows you to gather the much needed information in those moments in order to make an informed decision and properly calibrate your Fi-view to handle any situations in actual reality. Iow, it will keep you grounded when Fi wants to build castles in the sky without a bridge there.

So, consider it your ticket to the real world, with all the fun, games and experimenting you can think of. Let your curiosity and spontaneity bring back those goodies to Fi to mull over in the quiet contemplation of your temple to your Ego (aka the dom function). You'll find that as it develops, it will also guide and generally strengthen the other functions - the most often given advice for developing maturity is to strengthen your auxiliary function since it has this overall effect on all functions you use. It becomes their touchstone which keeps them going off the deep end.

 

[strychnine]

Now, if you're ISFP, you would use Se to connect with the world. That would mean that you will balance out your Fi-dom view with actual, factual data from the real world. You love others by engaging them in the moment, doing fun things together, having them inspire you as much as you inspire them and letting them influence and inform your values and view on the world. It also allows you to gather the much needed information in those moments in order to make an informed decision and properly calibrate your Fi-view to handle any situations in actual reality. Iow, it will keep you grounded when Fi wants to build castles in the sky without a bridge there.

So, consider it your ticket to the real world, with all the fun, games and experimenting you can think of. Let your curiosity and spontaneity bring back those goodies to Fi to mull over in the quiet contemplation of your temple to your Ego (aka the dom function). You'll find that as it develops, it will also guide and generally strengthen the other functions - the most often given advice for developing maturity is to strengthen your auxiliary function since it has this overall effect on all functions you use. It becomes their touchstone which keeps them going off the deep end.

Your post is beautiful and itself inspiring.

The bolded is really confusing to me because of how I engage with the external world. I don't really find things "fun" as most things don't hold my interest. I'm not spontaneous, I don't really "experiment" apart from messing with people to see how they react. Reading and internet are the only things that engage me. I try to play sports, go to amusement parks and ride rollercoasters, I tried rock climbing but those activities bore me out of my skull, due to the total lack of mental engagement. I just don't see the point, I don't learn anything, I'm just bored and thinking about more interesting things. If that is "fun" I don't want fun.

I don't really understand what "values" are, in the first place. I don't have or want a value system. I want to build castles in the sky. I can achieve intellectual purity only by a complete disconnection with reality. I want the purest theories and the only way I can develop those is by disconnection from reality.

I wonder if maybe I am ESxP and that is the only reason I have not totally disconnected from reality and gone off the deep end as you so aptly put it. By all accounts I should be in a Ji-Ni loop. Yet here I am, not looping and not even engaging Ni. It would make sense if I was ESxP and unable to go into an auxiliary-inferior Ji-Ni loop.

If I am ESxP then it means I have a very strong auxiliary Ji, rendering this thread moot... but then somehow my dominant function has gone dormant. Is that even possible?

 

[Amargith]

You know...and this is just a gut reaction, but you look like a young ENTP to me.

Reading and internet, messing with people, intellectual purity, not having the slightest interesting values (typical Fi thing, which ENTPs have a blind spot for), your impatient and argumentative way of dismissing information that doesn't fit into your system until it is explained in a way that is acceptable to you...that's classic for any Xi function, but the way you do it seems to indicate Ti.


IF (big if) I'm right, you'd use Ne to navigate the world, like an enfp would, and you would use Ti to spread truth and love others. That means looking for intellectual integrity and helping others build theirs, discussing interesting theories and sharpening your debating skills as you assimilate information needed for Ne to discern what is Truth and what is just an amusing tidbit. You would likely be peeved by people trying to obscure the facts (due to what you perceive to be incompetence or for their own personal agenda), though you may actually enjoy playing Devil's Advocate and do the same in order to test other people's critical thinking skills and get turned on by those that can call you on it

...just a hunch
Again, it's a gut reaction, so take it with a bucket of salt.

 

[Jaguar]

I don't really understand what "values" are, in the first place. I don't have or want a value system.

Without understanding the definition of values or a value system, one cannot know whether or not they have or want a value system.
It's the equivalent of someone saying, "I don't know what a car is, but I know I don't have or want a car." Meanwhile, the person has two cars in their garage.


"I like characters that stay true to themselves, those that recognize that the biggest price to pay is not that of your life, but of selling your soul."

That quote denotes the presence of a value system: Staying true to yourself and not selling the soul.

 

[strychnine]

You know...and this is just a gut reaction, but you look like a young ENTP to me.

lol what? Are you trolling me? Didn't you just say in the other thread that I have Ne PoLR (or whatever it's called in socionics)? Now you think I am Ne dominant? I am going to need more than a bucket of salt with that.

xxTP sure. ISTP seems about right, and has Ne PoLR just like ISFP. Pretty sure I am one of those two types. Off chance of ESxP. (Which would still be weird, because then I have to explain an absent dominant function rather than an absent auxiliary function.)

Reading and internet, messing with people, intellectual purity, not having the slightest interesting values (typical Fi thing, which ENTPs have a blind spot for), your impatient and argumentative way of dismissing information that doesn't fit into your system until it is explained in a way that is acceptable to you...that's classic for any Xi function, but the way you do it seems to indicate Ti.

Fair point. ISTP. Fi is ISTP 8th function. I'm not even going to dispute your claim that I am impatient and argumentative and dismissing information; if I dispute it, you'll probably mischaracterize that as "dismissing" it.

IF (big if) I'm right, you'd use Ne to navigate the world, like an enfp would, and you would use Ti to spread truth and love others. That means looking for intellectual integrity and helping others build theirs, discussing interesting theories and sharpening your debating skills as you assimilate information needed for Ne to discern what is Truth and what is just an amusing tidbit. You would likely be peeved by people trying to obscure the facts (due to what you perceive to be incompetence or for their own personal agenda), though you may actually enjoy playing Devil's Advocate and do the same in order to test other people's critical thinking skills and get turned on by those that can call you on it

...just a hunch
Again, it's a gut reaction, so take it with a bucket of salt.

I don't talk to anyone, never mind debate or discuss with them. I hate advocates for the devil. I keep truths to myself because I don't care if other people suffer from their own ignorance. I seek intellectual integrity for myself, yes, but not others as I don't care about them. I am myself a fact-obscurer; I make up facts all the time and then get weirdly defensive when people suspect me of it. This is totally off base, salt and all. Sorry.

Without understanding the definition of values or a value system, one cannot know whether or not they have or want a value system.
It's the equivalent of someone saying, "I don't know what a car is, but I know I don't have or want a car." Meanwhile, the person has two cars in their garage.

Whether you realize it or not, this is a value statement:

"I like characters that stay true to themselves, those that recognize that the biggest price to pay is not that of your life, but of selling your soul."

That quote denotes the presence of a value system: Staying true to oneself and not selling the soul.

How enlightening. Why don't you tell me more about what I ought to believe. FYI souls are not actually real things, you do know that, right? (EDIT: I recognize that quote from a past post I made, but you might be interested to check the date on that post. I bet it's not in the last 3 years.)

You're right. I have a value. Pure, seething hatred for everyone but myself.

 

[Amargith]

In my previous posts, I've always addressed the point of your posts with 'if you are in fact ISFP' because I don't know you that well - yet. And I tend to take people's typing at face value when I don't know them that well, and base my answer on that. As for dismissing the whole argumentative thing - it's my own perception/bias/experience with you. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, nor am I holding it against you and it is subjective as hell - it's also a pattern I typically see in Ti-users, hence I related it to you

Also, you seem pretty into debating on here - more than (most) of the STPs I've known on here so far




*adds another bucket of salt*

 

[Jaguar]

You're right. I have a value. Pure, seething hatred for everyone but myself.

Congratulations.

 

[strychnine]

In my previous posts, I've always addressed the point of your posts with 'if you are in fact ISFP' because I don't know you that well - yet. And I tend to take people's typing at face value when I don't know them that well, and base my answer on that.

Well, I appreciate that. Really.

As for dismissing the whole argumentative thing - it's my own perception/bias/experience with you. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, nor am I holding it against you and it is subjective as hell - it's also a pattern I typically see in Ti-users, hence I related it to you

Also, you seem pretty into debating on here - more than (most) of the STPs I've known on here so far

You're Fi/Te, not Ti/Fe. And yet you keep engaging me, you keep responding. Is that not also debating? Why is it only considered debating when I do it, not when you respond to me? Regardless, debating has nothing to do with functions. I'm going to call out the intuitive bias when I see it. I've also been arguing against the chest-beating ESTPs in the SP Arthouse for the past 5 years. That doesn't make me an NTP, that makes me a terrified ISFP 5 who has spent my life fending off perceived threats from the environment, including other people.

 

[Amargith]

...I do enjoy debating. I have no problem with people debating. I'm also an Ne-dom...which is why I mentioned the debating. Granted, I don't have quite the same stamina for it as most NTPs I've met, mostly due to the fact that conflict and tension tends to wear me out more, which is bound to happen in passionate debates.

I engage people to learn - to listen to their perspectives, enrich each others point of views hopefully and come away with some thought provoking ideas.

While I've certainly seen STPs that do the same, they tend to have a more laid back attitude than NTPs in debates, I find, and they tend to make their points and get out, for the most part

Look, I'm sharing this stuff due to the OP you posted - I'm not actually invested in you being ENTP, or anything. If you say you're STP, you're STP, for all I care. I was just tossing out a hunch. Mea culpa.

With that said, I'll stop engaging you

 

[strychnine]

I wonder if maybe I am ESxP and that is the only reason I have not totally disconnected from reality and gone off the deep end as you so aptly put it. By all accounts I should be in a Ji-Ni loop. Yet here I am, not looping and not even engaging Ni. It would make sense if I was ESxP and unable to go into an auxiliary-inferior Ji-Ni loop.

If I am ESxP then it means I have a very strong auxiliary Ji, rendering this thread moot... but then somehow my dominant function has gone dormant. Is that even possible?

Ok so I think I was right. I am ESFP, probably. I am looking at the interaction styles and I am going to post stuff here since I already have this thread. If this is not ok, please move to what's my type section if required.

 

[/DG/]

You said I could dump this here, so I will...

So you told me that you have a fairly high energy level compared to others. This signifies to me that you are an extravert.

You also told me that you are relatively people oriented compared to others. This signifies to me that you may be a feeler.

However, according to the interaction styles system, you have stated that you are a get things going type (extravert and people oriented). However, under this system, it indicates that you may be an ENP or an ESF type (for some reason the divisions between task and people oriented are not symmetrical here). Considering that you have indicated your sensing preference, that would leave it as ESFP or ESFJ.

---

From this system, you have indicated that you may be phlegmatic in inclusion, phlegmatic in control, and choleric in affection. On one page, this indicates you are INFP. However, on another page, it indicates that your type is XXXX alttongue. However, you did express that you were not 100% confident on picking phlegmatic for inclusion. You have also stated sanguine or choleric to be secondary choices. Sang-Phleg = ENFP (or ESFX on the second page). Chol-Phleg = ENFJ (or ESTX on the second page). I'm not sure why these are different depending on what page you are on.

Differing viewpoints seen here vs. here (see the bottom of both pages).

However, I have just tried this system with a few vent members and their types in this system did not seem to match up with their actual MBTI type. So I wouldn't take this bit too seriously.

---

What does seem constant in all of this is F. So I think that EF is definitely a good fit...and ESF as you say. From my experience, Fe types seem to be rather obvious, and I am not seeing it in you. ESFP is what I'm saying for now. However, I still can't really say that I get an ESFP vibe from you. It's hard to say, though, given we are on a text only medium.

---

Edit: Derp I didn't read the previous post. Oh well...I'm leaving it as ESFP for now.

Edit 2: Somehow it swapped my post with the post underneath me. Now it should read that I didn't read the following post. I am confused at why that happened. We must've posted at the same time.

 

[strychnine]

My post from other thread after further consideration

From the other thread

I am Informative, People-Oriented, and Initiating = Get Things Going (Keirsey Coworker)
I don't have a Directive bone in my body! If there is an In Charge person present, I might default to Behind the Scenes. But other than that I am Get Things Going through and through.

Pragmatic (as opposed to Cooperative)

EDIT: After further reading, I think I'm structure focused (vs. motive)

Inclusion: Sanguine Phlegmatic
Control: Phlegmatic
Affection: Choleric Phlegmatic

What type is this? ESFP?

Thanks.


Driving needs are between these from [MENTION=3521]Eric B[/MENTION] 's website:

Sanguines are motivated by the need for socialization or attention, and this drives them to like being around people, and be very outgoing and usually bright and friendly. They are also regenerated by socialization.

Cholerics are motivated by goals, which drives them to approach and use people for accomplishments, often being bright and charming, but not otherwise associate with them. They are regenerated by meeting their goals.

Probably more Choleric and less Sanguine. I want to say almost superficially Sanguine and really Choleric, although I am genuinely Sanguine (it's not a pretense; just doesn't feel as essential to me a Choleric.)

I uh... I don't have demonic Ne

The whole function theory is really weird in that if you have dominant Se you have to have demonic Ne and vice versa. idk they seem pretty similar.

How would demonic Se present?

 

[Amargith]

Mine presents by doing Se things in a self-destructive manner - addictions, food over indulgence, a need to either completely numb myself out or be obsessed with sensory details (such as aromatherapy, beautiful objects, etc). Basically, swinging back and forward from being too stuck in your head (due to Ne), to the point where you completely neglect our body because you're no longer grounded in it, to rebelling against it all and overindulging in everything to 'make up for it'. Or, to placate your body with junk to distract it so it will stop distracting you with its needs and let you stay in your head/Ne rush. There's also this 'not having healthy parameters' thing to it because you so rarely engage this thing - or if you do, you do it instinctively and never take a closer look at how you could fine-tune and master it as it's the opposite of your world view. So, in that respect it can be quite dangerous to engage as you're flailing around like a bumbling idiot who's staring at his phone instead of keeping his eyes on the road, trying to autopilot his way home so he can use the bathroom, which his body is demanding of him. /overstatement for dramatic effect.


....still not engaging you

 

[strychnine]

Quoting myself because I think this might be.... lower Si.....

So I was recently away on a trip. For about 3 weeks. I got back home. Walk through door and start getting all these immediate perceptions. Everything seemed slightly 'off' and different. The furniture seemed to have moved slightly, even though it couldn't have. My shelving seemed to have grown or shrunk, even though it couldn't have. The floors felt different. The ceiling looked different, slightly higher in some rooms and lower in other rooms. I know other SJs on this forum have described those subtle "something feels different" perceptions as Si, so I'm thinking that this is Si. Except my perceptions were all wrong? So is this like shadow Si? Or does this also happen with higher Si like in xSxJ types? Also I noticed that I can use a smell to trigger a memory play back but it only works for bad memories. Is this Si?

-------------------------------------------------------

Mine presents by doing Se things in a self-destructive manner - addictions, food over indulgence, a need to either completely numb myself out or be obsessed with sensory details (such as aromatherapy, beautiful objects, etc). Basically, swinging back and forward from being too stuck in your head (due to Ne), to the point where you completely neglect our body because you're no longer grounded in it, to rebelling against it all and overindulging in everything to 'make up for it'. Or, to placate your body with junk to distract it so it will stop distracting you with its needs and let you stay in your head/Ne rush. There's also this 'not having healthy parameters' thing to it because you so rarely engage this thing - or if you do, you do it instinctively and never take a closer look at how you could fine-tune and master it as it's the opposite of your world view. So, in that respect it can be quite dangerous to engage as you're flailing around like a bumbling idiot who's staring at his phone instead of keeping his eyes on the road, trying to autopilot his way home so he can use the bathroom, which his body is demanding of him. /overstatement for dramatic effect.

Thank you. I can relate to parts of this, but it doesn't totally resonate. Some of it sounds like inferior Si, too. Mostly that I'm not grounded in my body or in the physical world at all really, it's just not a part of my self-identity, and basically I've had lifelong issues with understanding how I physically appear/move/etc (major blindspot). I lack any kind of physical instincts and am supremely uncoordinated and "unphysical" for lack of a better way to put it. That's probably closer to demonic Se than demonic Ne though.

....still not engaging you

 

[strychnine]

Took another online test, I don't really place much importance on those but I thought my answers might be interesting...

I related to too many answers and I spent about 15 minutes on that page alone! lol. No worries though. I bolded the answers I related to a lot, and underlined the ones I related to less.

8. At My Best
I am people-focused ... and bring out the best in others.
I am highly capable ... and focused on accomplishing the best.
I am curious and develop an in-depth knowledge about specific things.
I am enthusiastic, and my excitement for things often inspires others.
I am open-minded and like to bring peace and harmony to situations.

9. Ways I have Challenged Myself and Others
I can have a hard time saying no, and do things for others at a cost to myself.
I can feel I am always 'on' and have to project a competent and positive image.
I can find it effortful reading social and emotional cues, making interactions difficult.
I can find so many interesting things to do that I get distracted and scattered.
I can see things from different perspectives making it hard to know where I stand.

10. A Role I Often Play
I can bring help to a needy world.
I can bring achievement to an inefficient world.
I can bring objectivity to an irrational [world]. -- Not "world" - but I bring objectivity to my friends' irrationality, for example.
I can bring excitement to a boring world.
I can bring peace of mind to a troubled world.

-------------------------------------

From Vent. Including only my part of the conversation as I don't want to post other people's words without asking.

strychnine: I just have some like sensory issues and stuff so
strychnine: that affects it
strychnine: like I'm kind of uncoordinated...I have like bodily issues and stuff
strychnine: don't have a good grasp of how I extend into space and how I appear and stuff like that
strychnine: so I lack confidence in physical movements and stuff
strychnine: That is why I'm not "in the moment" (...)

This could make me artifically appear more N, possibly leading to mistyping.

Or, these issues could be related to an inferior or tertiary S function...

 

[strychnine]

Why I think I'm Ti > Fe (xxTP)

I wrote in that other thread: The more I read and think about it, Fi/Te just seems totally foreign to me while Ti seems second nature and Fe seems...er...third nature? haha. So yeah, basically what I thought was Fi was actually Ti + Fe.

Those are new terms from Berens as apart of her new "Intentional Styles" model. The Intentional Styles themselves are the groups sharing all four primary functions (so that both SFJ and NTP are the same style, called "Enhancing"; it's basically similar to the quadras), and some presentations sheets also named the individual function tandems as well.
So that's another lens to look at type through, since you're reconsidering. Here's an article on it, back when it was still called "Cognitive Styles": Cognitive Style, Respect, and Forgiveness (though it only mentions the Styles, not the tandems). Here's one on the "tandem principle": http://lindaberens.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/TandemPrincipleParts1-2.pdf

Wow. The description of Ti in that PDF is great. Even Berens' own description fits: "I balance my tendency to refine the models and use precise, technical language (Ti) with considering the experience of others (Fe) to produce something they will understand and find useful" I do this at work all the time too. If I get too precise and technical people won't understand as easily, so I balance precision vs. clarity. I put clarity over precision, unless working on projects/theories for myself; then I put precision over clarity. I think I have Ti in the foreground, and Fe in the background, so Ti > Fe.

I also try to "fit"/"map" different theories to one another, most relevantly with type theories. It actually bothers me when they don't map nicely and are kind of imperfect/rough approximations rather than technically/theoretically perfect. I don't look for external "real world" evidence to back them up at all, so really, fitting them together and judging if they make sense to me is the only way I can determine what is true/correct.

FWIW, I always thought that Ti/Fe fit together nicely, rather than being in contradiction, so long as I do not try to "make sense" of Fe with Ti - not sure how that would work for FJs but probably something similar. Basically, I think the problem arises if you try to make sense of the less preferred function of the pair in terms of the more preferred function. I've mostly accepted that Fe doesn't really "make sense" from Ti's perspective, it's just its own thing.


However, from the PDF, none of the perceiving functions even make sense to me?? I thought I was Se-dom until yesterday, but I don't relate to that description of Se at all. lol. Confused.

Berens: "I also experience the tandemness of Ne-Si when conducting a workshop. I seem to "read" the group and detect a need without any evidence (Ne), then the story or example from my past presents itself (Si). I don't consciously think about what story I need, but it just comes forward instantly."

I thought reading a group and detecting needs was Fe? I also don't rely as much on past experience as she seems to, I tend to make up experiences (aka lie) or at least embellish on actual experiences. What function is that?

 

[strychnine]

Pulling in another post from a different thread on Pe > Ji and dom Pe cannot keep with aux Ji

I'm quite obsessive about trying to get a handle on every thought I have, on aligning/integrating every thought (or as many as possible) into my systems/theories/concepts/framework, reconciling everything with everything else... I want the most thorough, truthful, perfect, and all-encompassing theories and I cannot stop. The truth is, I would need a week to judge/fit an hour's worth of ideas. It's like I'm drowning in a sea of them, instead of floating on clouds of them like I used to. I can never keep up.

I've been deliberately "shutting the world away" so that I can work through existing thoughts and ideas...but even then, I keep springboarding off existing ideas onto new ones, although it is better. It's a good thing I can't shut the world away as completely as an IxTP can. My latest thing is regurgitating and re-analyzing the same information/ideas. I normally analyze new information, but I feel stuck like this.

I really need to let the ideas go as easily as I get them. I need balance. At least I have a strong auxiliary Ti to show for all this.

 

[strychnine]

Back to ESFP. Well, eSfP. And probably peacing outta this place and this typology BS sooner rather than later. Good enough.

 

[Diablesse]

Back to ESFP. Well, eSfP. And probably peacing outta this place and this typology BS sooner rather than later. Good enough.

You just need to step away and take a break for a while