Keirsey's soulmates: ENFJ/INTP

[MacGuffin]

Yeah, I get that; it's everywhere on the forums.

What I'm asking is what does the INTP DO to create an emotional safe space for their partner to deepen the relationship? That's why I have INTPs as friends. I don't mind talking about the ideas and thoughts, etc., but what of the rest? All I hear about is the INTP (like everyone else ) needs to have one opened for themselves. This is the major problem with ENFJ/INTP relationships...you have one partner who it's nearly their reason for being to do this kind of thing and another partner who is basically clueless of how to do this. It's unequal, it's teacher/student. Maybe one day the student will master their lessons but what happens in the mean time?

From my own experience and what I can tell from others, the INTP just takes the risk on, a leap of faith that the other person and relationship is worth it.

So if they aren't taking that with you, then I wouldn't expect much from them. You can't help them along much, they'll react against it and withdraw.

 

[Littlelostnf]

Oh no, she freaked out (mostly based on my guilty reaction). She's much better with it now that I'm not so freaked out myself. Hell... they've met in person!

Hmmmm I'd want him all...mind and soul. Maybe this is what Pink is talking about when she says she wants to eat....

I don't know MacGuffin...hmmmm so much in my head about this...prob doesn't really need to be voiced. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Here's a resolution: INTPs should just be with INFJs

 

[Domino]

I've never dated a male ENFJ, so I have no idea how INTP/ENFJ would play out in a relationship. I do have several female ENFJ friends, and as far as I can tell, I'm the one they call when they do need to vent without being judged.

once again, intp ladies ftw!

 

[Domino]

Hmmmm I'd want him all...mind and soul. Maybe this is what Pink is talking about when she says she wants to eat....

precisely... i'm taking you in pieces whether you like it or not, knowing full well that it's happening to me too... i've experienced this with an entp and istp, but have not had that "trading power like slaves" moment with an intp, though i know it could happen... it's a creative and conservational annihilation, an inevitability, a merging against all means to stop or direct it...

I don't know MacGuffin...hmmmm so much in my head about this...prob doesn't really need to be voiced. Thanks for the explanation.

he's a vile sewer clown from outer space...

 

[MacGuffin]

Hmmmm I'd want him all...mind and soul. Maybe this is what Pink is talking about when she says she wants to eat....

I don't know MacGuffin...hmmmm so much in my head about this...prob doesn't really need to be voiced. Thanks for the explanation.

So you want him sexually/romantically? Then he's probably right to withdraw.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Hmmm...

I understand ENFJs as a theory.

I've known ENFJs online.

I've known people in person that I think might be ENFJs.

But I've never known someone in person that I knew was an ENFJ, so I guess the verdict is out on this.

 

[Domino]

*mercilessly squeezes the sponge for his vital sea nutrients*

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Let me have my rightful share of phosphorous!

 

[Domino]

you shall not glow again in the murky depths of underwater Ti chasms!

 

[JocktheMotie]

Holy crap, yes. I feel like this is one of my strongest qualities. Young INTPs, not so much--they'll just point out where you're being illogical or whatever. But a mature INTP is a wonderful sounding board/safe place, because we see things from all sides, we don't judge you for having certain feelings, and we don't take things personally.

I'd like to echo this. Part of the development of my listening ability can be attributed to the "peer mediation" program I was part of in middle school in high school. Basically I [and about 20 others] was selected by my peers as someone they'd feel comfortable going to with a problem, a concern, etc. Imagine my surprise when I found out, especially considering I really didn't consider myself having that many friends.

But anyways, once INTPs learn to not treat other's emotional expressions to them as problems to be solved, I think we can be very good people to confide in.

My only problem, is allowing others to be that for me. I know I have things in my mind that I will take to the grave. Things that other people need to share in order to forge better connections. I dismiss so much of my feelings, and I dismiss my own personal happiness all the time, which gets me into trouble. Part of that problem is that I don't think I can support the reasons for my feelings, and that they won't hold up to any kind of scrutiny, so I keep them shut in.

I really like this conversation, though I don't think I have too much life experience to contribute. Very interesting to read nonetheless.

 

[proteanmix]

I don't think this is a fair statement. You haven't met an INTP that's as emotionally available as you would like them to be, but admittedly, you have high emotional availability standards. Everyone has their own level of comfort with sharing emotions or needing to get them out. Just because an INTP doesn't need to vent all the time doesn't mean he doesn't trust you, or that he isn't capable of being your emotional rock.

You can't really say that someone's not ready for a relationship if you're just judging them by the standards you personally have for a relationship. All you can say, really, is that they're not a good candidate for a relationship with you, which is fine.

I'm not disagreeing with you so let's start at the basics to figure out where (if at all) we disagree.

I have general indicators of emotional availability as far as romantic interests are concerned. I'm not the type of person to just fall in love after one week and typically with all two of my romantic relationships we've talked for months before making the leap into togetherland.

So I suppose emotional availability is what I figure out during that time. My first one I look for is transparency and comfortableness talking about subjects with emotional content or emotional self-awareness. That's a really big deal to me. Please believe, I'm not asking anyone to divulge their deepest feelings because that's, I guess rude, when you don't know someone very well and you're trying to get to know them better but at some point the effort has got to be made.

For example, I remember talking to this guy and he mentioned his parents divorced when he was young and he's had a rocky relationship with his father ever since. Yeah, I'm sorry that's something I leap on. I remember asking him what effect does he think his parents' divorce and his (non-existent) relationship with his father had on him. Is that too much after about four weeks? I didn't bring it up, he did but I felt like that was one of those "get to know you better moments."

You're right, I look for moments like that and I appreciate someone who looks for moments like that as well and that's a sign of emotional availability to me, that a person is receptive and willing to recipricate. I have no clue if that's a high emotional standard or not, but I know the guys I've dated (who were IxTx) did it which is why I felt attracted to them.

But a mature INTP is a wonderful sounding board/safe place, because we see things from all sides, we don't judge you for having certain feelings, and we don't take things personally.

I believe you, 3/4 of my INTP friends are females which does make the dynamic quite different if you ask me.

 

[Littlelostnf]

So you want him sexually/romantically? Then he's probably right to withdraw.

Problem is (and I think this might be what Protean might be talking about) with an INTP it takes them so long to figure things out and they take so much before letting you know anything... Also beyond my case I've know of a friend INFP who dealt with an INTP who just wouldn't let go..even when she tried to let go. It's almost like the INTP doesn't withdraw until they are good and ready and if you try to go before that they do their brand of manipulation and keep you hanging until they are ready to let go (if they do) I watched it really mess up my INFP friend...it was a mess. As for me I wasn't such a mess because I wasn't in love...just loved my INTP friend. He just couldn't decide what he wanted...it wasn't about me. If I wasn't stronger I might have been in love I just was able to see how it was before he could so I was able to protect myself from what drop kicked my INFP friend's heart.

 

[MacGuffin]

I
So I suppose emotional availability is what I figure out during that time. My first one I look for is transparency and comfortableness talking about subjects with emotional content or emotional self-awareness. That's a really big deal to me. Please believe, I'm not asking anyone to divulge their deepest feelings because that's, I guess rude, when you don't know someone very well and you're trying to get to know them better but at some point the effort has got to be made.

For example, I remember talking to this guy and he mentioned his parents divorced when he was young and he's had a rocky relationship with his father ever since. Yeah, I'm sorry that's something I leap on. I remember asking him what effect does he think his parents' divorce and his (non-existent) relationship with his father had on him. Is that too much after about four weeks? I didn't bring it up, he did but I felt like that was one of those "get to know you better moments."

Are you his girlfriend? Otherwise the INTP shies away from the "leapers".

Problem is (and I think this might be what Protean might be talking about) with an INTP it takes them so long to figure things out and they take so much before letting you know anything... Also beyond my case I've know of a friend INFP who dealt with an INTP who just wouldn't let go..even when she tried to let go. It's almost like the INTP doesn't withdraw until they are good and ready and if you try to go before that they do their brand of manipulation and keep you hanging until they are ready to let go (if they do) I watched it really mess up my INFP friend...it was a mess. As for me I wasn't such a mess because I wasn't in love...just loved my INTP friend. He just couldn't decide what he wanted...it wasn't about me. If I wasn't stronger I might have been in love I just was able to see how it was before he could so I was able to protect myself from what drop kicked my INFP friend's heart.

That's an immature INTP.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

you shall not glow again in the murky depths of underwater Ti chasms!

Well, I don't actually use it to glow, I just eat it.

But fine, you can have it, but only if I get lots of hugs in return.

EDIT: I'm highly conscious of the fact that I am contributing nothing here.

 

[Littlelostnf]

That's an immature INTP.

I agree..and he was..both of them were. I still think the mature ones are awesome and for ENFJ's actually NF's in general who naturally see the potential in others they can be fascinating even when they are still growing...maybe especially then.

 

[Tallulah]

I'm not disagreeing with you so let's start at the basics to figure out where (if at all) we disagree.

I have general indicators of emotional availability as far as romantic interests are concerned. I'm not the type of person to just fall in love after one week and typically with all two of my romantic relationships we've talked for months before making the leap into togetherland.

So I suppose emotional availability is what I figure out during that time. My first one I look for is transparency and comfortableness talking about subjects with emotional content or emotional self-awareness. That's a really big deal to me. Please believe, I'm not asking anyone to divulge their deepest feelings because that's, I guess rude, when you don't know someone very well and you're trying to get to know them better but at some point the effort has got to be made.

For example, I remember talking to this guy and he mentioned his parents divorced when he was young and he's had a rocky relationship with his father ever since. Yeah, I'm sorry that's something I leap on. I remember asking him what effect does he think his parents' divorce and his (non-existent) relationship with his father had on him. Is that too much after about four weeks? I didn't bring it up, he did but I felt like that was one of those "get to know you better moments."

You're right, I look for moments like that and I appreciate someone who looks for moments like that as well and that's a sign of emotional availability to me, that a person is receptive and willing to recipricate. I have no clue if that's a high emotional standard or not, but I know the guys I've dated (who were IxTx) did it which is why I felt attracted to them.



I believe you, 3/4 of my INTP friends are females which does make the dynamic quite different if you ask me.

That makes sense--thanks! Yeah, if it's pretty understood that both parties are feeling each other out and are interested in each other, I don't think 4 weeks is too soon to share something like that. If I was interested in you and trusted you, I'd share it.

 

[proteanmix]

Are you his girlfriend? Otherwise the INTP shies away from the "leapers".

We were seeing if we could start a relationship and I don't know if he was INTP so this is one thing I won't blame on yall.

The "leaper" well, like I said, it was four weeks in and it felt like we were beyond so what's your favorite color kind of conversation. If that's a leaper then I'm a leaper par excellence.

 

[MacGuffin]

We were seeing if we could start a relationship and I don't know if he was INTP so this is one thing I won't blame on yall.

The "leaper" well, like I said, it was four weeks in and it felt like we were beyond so what's your favorite color kind of conversation. If that's a leaper then I'm a leaper par excellence.

When someone describes themselves in the way you did, then it comes across 3x more intense in real life than the way the person writes it.

 

[Kaizer]

That makes sense--thanks! Yeah, if it's pretty understood that both parties are feeling each other out and are interested in each other, I don't think 4 weeks is too soon to share something like that. If I was interested in you and trusted you, I'd share it.

Depth counts and not serial time per se.. a corollary would be music and critiquing it or liking it/knowing it & I say this in the context of and with reference to the discussions on the forum about INTPs and music

But anyways, once INTPs learn to not treat others emotional expressions to them as problems to be solved, I think we can be very good people to confide in.

I think its not just limited to emotional expressions or issues but rather also to other daily life or life long things, & seems such a typical-ish Ti leading with an Ne supporting function hing to me.

My only problem, is allowing others to be that for me. I know I have things in my mind that I will take to the grave. Things that other people need to share in order to forge better connections. I dismiss so much of my feelings, and I dismiss my own personal happiness all the time, which gets me into trouble. Part of that problem is that I don't think I can support the reasons for my feelings, and that they won't hold up to any kind of scrutiny, so I keep them shut in.

This dismissal of personal feeling I think is a case of finding comfort in it.. a reinforcement of the self so to say, which is where the leading Fe might make for a good counter balance/equalizer/harmonizer so to say... I mean the number of the more common ISFJ/ESFJ/ENFJ - INTP do point to something in this regard?

I believe you, 3/4 of my INTP friends are females which does make the dynamic quite different if you ask me.

Mine is based upon a long time best friend ENFJ guy & that might have given me interesting insight into this, especially since its in hindsight.