Keirsey's soulmates: ENFJ/INTP

[Domino]

I don't know that I've ever asked: Have you ever dated an INTP, LLNF?

 

[Tallulah]

I take HUGE exception to the tenor of these comments. I've pulled down high marks all my life, read Hawking and Kaku ALONE (re: no "assistance" from an NT - as if), and kicked several INTPs' asses in the collegiate realm, including my genius ex-bf. In no way are INTPs more intelligent that ANYONE else. I find that supremely pedantic and arrogant, and a persistent issue. I've frequently drawn myself up short to wait on my INT friends to match me. Can I sit down and do long division in my head? No. And neither can my INTJ best friend, even though he has a ridiculously high IQ. Can genius-prone ex-bf walk circles around me mentally if he wanted to? Maybe. Maybe not. Hasn't been able to in 12 years. There are subjects that bore me to tears or things that I'm no good at (like my well-documented numerical dyslexia) that he can take me on, but there are others that we both like and used to "debate" for hours. For sheer processing power, he has me over a barrel, but I'll bet I can arrive at the same point via other means. Just watch me.

One of my best friends is an ENFJ, and she ridiculously smart. I'd say MUCH smarter than I am, though she would never talk about her intelligence unless someone questioned it. She has a completely different way of arriving at her conclusions than I would, and I'm totally fascinated by that. I feel like she has a very easy, fluid, effortless intelligence, like things just come naturally to her, though I'm sure some of the time, she probably just keeps the machinery hidden. She also "fits" in far more social situations than I feel I do, and I'm just wondering if some of the INT snobbery towards other types is the age-old trap of thinking if someone has one quality, they can't have another. Like, if a person is bubbly or beautiful, they must not be smart. It's maddening when it's directed at you, but I guess people have their strengths and their ideas about the world, and some are uncomfortable when their "role" is challenged.

I don't know if I know any guy ENFJs IRL. I think I'd probably be scared at first that I wouldn't be "enough," as far as excitement goes. I sometimes feel boring around my ENFJ friend, because she's always got something going on.

My ENFJ friend unfortunately just "scared off" a skittish INTP guy that she was crazy about. When I say "scared off," I don't mean it was her fault. She didn't do anything wrong, and it was very evident that this guy was crazy about her as well. But when they decided to make it more of an official dating relationship, he just sort of freaked out. She doesn't live in the same town as me, so I never met her guy, but they sounded perfect together--both extremely intelligent, same broad interests, did everything together, had the same goals for the future. I wish I knew what the deal was with him--I wonder if he freaked because he was uncomfortable with having a lot of attention focused directly on him, or if he was frightened by the prospect of being with someone that could match his intelligence. I don't know. It's annoying, because she very rarely finds anyone that holds her interest like he did.

 

[Domino]

One of my best friends is an ENFJ, and she ridiculously smart. I'd say MUCH smarter than I am, though she would never talk about her intelligence unless someone questioned it. She has a completely different way of arriving at her conclusions than I would, and I'm totally fascinated by that. I feel like she has a very easy, fluid, effortless intelligence, like things just come naturally to her, though I'm sure some of the time, she probably just keeps the machinery hidden. She also "fits" in far more social situations than I feel I do, and I'm just wondering if some of the INT snobbery towards other types is the age-old trap of thinking if someone has one quality, they can't have another. Like, if a person is bubbly or beautiful, they must not be smart. It's maddening when it's directed at you, but I guess people have their strengths and their ideas about the world, and some are uncomfortable when their "role" is challenged.

You were one of the INTP girls I was talking about. Wanna get hitched, perdy thang?!

I don't know if I know any guy ENFJs IRL. I think I'd probably be scared at first that I wouldn't be "enough," as far as excitement goes. I sometimes feel boring around my ENFJ friend, because she's always got something going on.

Don't worry about that. We don't see the INTP "quietude" as being boring. It's *because* we have so much going on that we like the laid-back attitude of NTPs. I don't see introverts as not being fun. I see them occasionally not communicating effectively with me when I need them too as maddening, but certainly not a crisis.

My ENFJ friend unfortunately just "scared off" a skittish INTP guy that she was crazy about. When I say "scared off," I don't mean it was her fault. She didn't do anything wrong, and it was very evident that this guy was crazy about her as well. But when they decided to make it more of an official dating relationship, he just sort of freaked out. She doesn't live in the same town as me, so I never met her guy, but they sounded perfect together--both extremely intelligent, same broad interests, did everything together, had the same goals for the future. I wish I knew what the deal was with him--I wonder if he freaked because he was uncomfortable with having a lot of attention focused directly on him, or if he was frightened by the prospect of being with someone that could match his intelligence. I don't know. It's annoying, because she very rarely finds anyone that holds her interest like he did.

This. Is what. I mean. There's a small ticker tape of profanities scrolling through my brain. I *don't* dig in to just anybody either, so when I finally DO find someone I click with, it's a point of despair when they flake out. (Or turn out to be married... )

 

[MacGuffin]

In no way are INTPs more intelligent that ANYONE else.

You need to stop your lies!

 

[booyalab]

Admit it. You like the idea. ENFJs aren't scary - INTPs are afraid to give in to the Fe burn. Consumption in a ball of fire. The only ones who haven't stepped back from it with me are ENTPs. Why? Why is this? They leave my natural state alone while calming me. Why don't INTPs? Why don't they want to TRY.

I think it's the idea that anyone could love you if they just "give in". I expect that some people may not like me and I'm totally cool with it. I find the opposite mindset kind of annoying. It feels invasive.

 

[Domino]

You need to stop your lies!

Get. Outta here.

I think it's the idea that anyone could love you if they just "give in".

We're all plagued by that to some degree. That giving in is equivalent to someone's mom standing over you fussing, "Why pay for the cow when you're giving the milk away?" It's not like that. It about allowing something to happen to you, and trusting another person to take you somewhere you can't go on your own without harming you. That they just might actually "get' you that well.

I expect that some people may not like me and I'm totally cool with it. I find the opposite mindset kind of annoying. It feels invasive.

If I understand you correctly: you find people who aren't cool with being not liked annoying? Explain to me what this has to do with the line of conversation. I want to understand where you're going with this.

 

[Snail]

Did you find that flattering or irritating?

painful

What? Him?

Yes.

Nice.

Hmm.

And you were?

Moreso than she was, but it was an individual difference, not a type thing. He considered me more intellectually qualified than she was, but emotionally weaker.

I take HUGE exception to the tenor of these comments. I've pulled down high marks all my life, read Hawking and Kaku ALONE (re: no "assistance" from an NT - as if), and kicked several INTPs' asses in the collegiate realm, including my genius ex-bf. In no way are INTPs more intelligent that ANYONE else. I find that supremely pedantic and arrogant, and a persistent issue. I've frequently drawn myself up short to wait on my INT friends to match me. Can I sit down and do long division in my head? No. And neither can my INTJ best friend, even though he has a ridiculously high IQ. Can genius-prone ex-bf walk circles around me mentally if he wanted to? Maybe. Maybe not. Hasn't been able to in 12 years. There are subjects that bore me to tears or things that I'm no good at (like my well-documented numerical dyslexia) that he can take me on, but there are others that we both like and used to "debate" for hours. For sheer processing power, he has me over a barrel, but I'll bet I can arrive at the same point via other means. Just watch me.

I was saying that I don't buy into the idea that all Introverts are smarter. In this case, it was an individual difference, probably because her mother got drunk a lot when she was pregnant. I'm saying that a normal ENFJ should be plenty intelligent to deal with an INTP as an equal.

Exhibit A as to why an ENFJ would like an INTP but doesn't bother. Who wants to chase down their date and coax him out from under a table? Are you kidding me? I've dated more ENTPs because of this. Not only do they frikkin' respond when you jab them with a pin, they actually behave like you have a brain and show respect for your intelligence instead of making a real "I'm smarter" competition out of it. On top of that, the ENTPs generally are more relaxed, life-experienced and willing to take a chance.

I've known competitive ENTPs who are arrogant about their intelligence, too. I think it has everything to do with the individuals involved.

It would be great to find more INTPs - the ones I've dated/been involved with were cosmic. Talk about instant karma. Whatever it is, it's like being boiled in oil and liking it. You just instinctively want to knock them down and sit on them, grinning like a Cheshire Cat. (Granted, that happens to me with both NTP types.) The first guy I was violently attracted to was INTP and it was mutual.

That's cool. If you like being boiled in oil, I won't try to stop you.

 

[MacGuffin]

Get. Outta here.

The thread title was an invite!




ENFJs: how do you define "soulmate"? If you think INTP is a great match, how much of a "mindmate" do you want to be?

 

[Snail]

Anyone wanting me only in reduction is a pathogen.

Beautifully stated!

 

[Usehername]

If I understand you correctly: you find people who aren't cool with being not liked annoying? Explain to me what this has to do with the line of conversation. I want to understand where you're going with this.

I think she's just referring to the illogical assumption that any one human, regardless of who that human is, could possibly be thoroughly enjoyed by every single other human on the planet. Prolly one of those xxTx moments where the logic filter is grating against her brain loudly.

 

[Domino]

painful

How did you respond?

Yes.

Again, how did you respond? I can't imagine an INFP complying with that sort of egotistical terraforming.

Moreso than she was, but it was an individual difference, not a type thing. He considered me more intellectually qualified than she was, but emotionally weaker.

How so? Because you're Fi-primary? Did he outrightly say this to you? How did you respond?

I was saying that I don't buy into the idea that all Introverts are smarter. In this case, it was an individual difference, probably because her mother got drunk a lot when she was pregnant. I'm saying that a normal ENFJ should be plenty intelligent to deal with an INTP as an equal.

I will concede. I was astonished to meet a stupid INTJ and yet it happened.

I've known competitive ENTPs who are arrogant about their intelligence, too. I think it has everything to do with the individuals involved.

ENTPs are their own kettle of fish. I hear Ne-existential loops are a real killer.

That's cool. If you like being boiled in oil, I won't try to stop you.

How considerate. I've always wanted to try snails too.

The thread title was an invite!

*lays out D-Con*

ENFJs: how do you define "soulmate"? If you think INTP is a great match, how much of a "mindmate" do you want to be?

This again?! Fusion just IS. You better be a smart man/clown or I'm not stopping.

Beautifully stated!

I thank you!

I think she's just referring to the illogical assumption that any one human, regardless of who that human is, could possibly be thoroughly enjoyed by every single other human on the planet. Prolly one of those xxTx moments where the logic filter is grating against her brain loudly.

I love you.

 

[MacGuffin]

This again?! Fusion just IS. You better be a smart man/clown or I'm not stopping.

Fusion is the easy part. What comes after, that's the difficult part. Then the Keirsey roles will come out more starkly.

 

[Domino]

Fusion is the easy part. What comes after, that's the difficult part. Then the Keirsey roles will come out more starkly.

I'm trying to be clear - I can't fuse with someone that hasn't hit every button on the control panel. Mentally. Physically. Emotionally. Whatever. All of it. The nuclear reaction ISN'T the easy part. It's the end result of an entirely instinctive process that rarely occurs.

 

[MacGuffin]

I'm trying to be clear - I can't fuse with someone that hasn't hit every button on the control panel. Mentally. Physically. Emotionally. Whatever. All of it. The nuclear reaction ISN'T the easy part. It's the end result of an entirely instinctive process that rarely occurs.

Has it ever happened then?

If so, why didn't it work out?

 

[Domino]

Has it ever happened then?

Yes. Just three times.

If so, why didn't it work out?

1. Drug addict.

2. Engaged and I didn't know it until it was too late to extricate myself.

3. MARRIED. Big no-no.

 

[Snail]

How did you respond?

I cried a lot and he saw it as an act of defiance.

Again, how did you respond? I can't imagine an INFP complying with that sort of egotistical terraforming.

I argued passionately for my right to be myself and ended up in threatening, hostile situations trying to debate him for acceptance.

How so? Because you're Fi-primary? Did he outrightly say this to you? How did you respond?

Yes, and he said so cruelly and often. Usually when he bullied me about it, I cried, which only validated his beliefs about me being emotionally weak.

I will concede. I was astonished to meet a stupid INTJ and yet it happened.

I've only met one INTJ in real life, and only briefly. I'd like to study more of them. I know one online that I like a lot and would consider one of my favorite people at globalchatter.com. But I'll stop going off-topic now and answer your next statement.

ENTPs are their own kettle of fish. I hear Ne-existential loops are a real killer.

I've got an unexpectedly high amount of Ne according to the cognitive processes test, and I can certainly relate to that, even being an INFP.

How considerate. I've always wanted to try snails too.

 

[MacGuffin]

Yes. Just three times.

Three times doesn't seem that rare.

Some people around here haven't found one yet.

 

[ygolo]

I'm trying to be clear - I can't fuse with someone that hasn't hit every button on the control panel. Mentally. Physically. Emotionally. Whatever. All of it. The nuclear reaction ISN'T the easy part. It's the end result of an entirely instinctive process that rarely occurs.

It's this level of passion I find intriguing in Fe dom's. If they are good people also, it is also a source of great admiration and respect for me too-- This "wearing their heart on their sleves."

But I have to be honest when I say that I have never felt that level of passion for anything myself, and that is part of the draw(and the fear).

I feel I am at my best when calm and collected. I don't really function well when worked-up. So I tend to drive myself towards a "peace-of-mind."

The problem with this striving is that peace-of-mind, and apathetic are very close together states.

Perhaps my soul yearns for a way to avoid apathy, while still being calm. To be frank, sometimes I could use a good kick in the rear. But only if it is done with love AND respect will it be appreciated.

The other major issue is, I have no clue what it is that I (can) give an ExFJ. I don't like to be a free-loader.

 

[Domino]

I cried a lot and he saw it as an act of defiance.

I argued passionately for my right to be myself and ended up in threatening, hostile situations trying to debate him for acceptance.

Yes, and he said so cruelly and often. Usually when he bullied me about it, I cried, which only validated his beliefs about me being emotionally weak.

Unbelievable! :steam: I'm appalled and angered. I'm glad you are no longer with this person! No way did you deserve to be Pygmalioned. It's a basic human right to be oneself, sole-proprietor. Shame on him. For shame! Crying is NOT a sign of weakness, and acceptance should be granted, not begged for. Ever!

I hope there are better days ahead of you? Perhaps with someone kind and engaging who enjoys nudibranches?

I've only met one INTJ in real life, and only briefly. I'd like to study more of them. I know one online that I like a lot and would consider one of my favorite people at globalchatter.com. But I'll stop going off-topic now and answer your next statement.

INTJs are generally delightful, clever people. I highly recommend them.

 

[Littlelostnf]

I don't know that I've ever asked: Have you ever dated an INTP, LLNF?

Way long story....I'll pm ya about it.