For me, my explanation is that it simply isn't true. I prefer to take things that come to me, but I'm very picky, and don't take anything that comes my way. The part I bolded would not apply to me. I have actually had people express interest in me before (may be surprising) but I've politely declined them. They weren't what I wanted.
As for why I don't make advances. I think I'm extremely bad at it. And doing it makes me feel more vulnerable.
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Thread: Keirsey's soulmates: ENFJ/INTP
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08-16-2009, 03:16 PM #301Go to sleep, iguana.
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INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
Live and let live will just amount to might makes right
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08-16-2009, 03:17 PM #302
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08-16-2009, 03:23 PM #303
But why would you think that, Mac? You have more confidence than most men I've met, much less per type. What would cause an intelligent attractive person to doubt their capacities? Is that learned or endemic?
eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
Neutral Good
EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
Inquistive/Limbic
AIS Holland code
Researcher: VDI-P
Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious
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08-16-2009, 03:25 PM #304
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08-16-2009, 03:40 PM #305
Well, and all of this is only for me, can't speak for any other INTPs; for myself I'm really never sure if the attention I'm getting has romantic intent or if they're just being really friendly. Unless you just come out and say "I'm interested! You know, in that way," I'm just going to assume you aren't. I think part of it might have to do with rejection. I don't want relationships to change very much, so if I have feelings for a friend or someone I see a lot, I'm terrified of being responsible for screwing it all up. Because I'm pretty sure that I will, and the mental "what did she mean by this sentence/action/look/joke" analysis just paralyzes any kind of decision making. I never take chances with people, because I understand them as a system so very little, and I'm afraid of being wrong and messing it all up
Also, your observation "They just took what they were handed and called it "being in love", even when the match was clearly bad or destructive," rings very true for me. Even in my relationship now, I take what I'm given and work with what I can. I never bring up things that make me unhappy, or worry me, or maybe talk about something I'd like to be improved, because they are my feelings and I don't think I can back them up, or rationalize them in any kind of argument. I have trouble making a stand when I do not think I can defend myself, and when I air out my grievances, worries, or feelings, I feel defenseless. Also, I'm afraid that me bringing anything like that up, will change the relationship for the worse, so I stay bottled in. Funny this whole thread got brought up too, because I just realized I wasn't as happy as I used to be in my relationship about a week ago. That's what I get for not taking my "emotional temperature" very often. Sometimes you just wake up and one day you wonder how the hell you got to where you are.
And as for my noggin, I did just get detailed! Part of my yearly maintenence plan
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08-16-2009, 03:44 PM #306
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08-16-2009, 04:11 PM #307
I'm probably not coming from exactly the same perspective that Mac is, but I'd agree that for me such things are, at least primarily, learned. Confidence is categorical - being confident in many things or even in general doesn't equate to confidence in all things - and in my case most things relating to people-issues are a known weak spot. Give me a problem to solve, or a task to accomplish, or a skillset to learn and I'm confident that I can do it (follow-through, on the other hand, can sometimes be hit-or-miss
).
But at those things that I'm not good at, confidence is oftentimes difficult to muster - I want to sit back and learn more to build confidence before acting - I know that I'm not good at "reading signals", and want to be as sure as I can. I know that I'm operating with insufficient data (much less than most others would expect me to have), and generally believe that unless it's clear someone *is* interested, that they'd consider themselves *obviously* not interested. And failures in the past tend to drive me to want to be *more* certain in the future.
It's not that I *won't* act... but that in the absence of fairly obvious positive signs ("hey, I like you - yeah, like *that*") the "learning more" phase can take long enough that opportunities can fade. *shrug* And usually those "fairly obvious signs" are someone else taking that first step. But it's not a "taking what I can get" sort of thing - not at all.
Yeah, that too.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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08-16-2009, 04:38 PM #308
I think that two people using feeling in the same way (eg, Fi-Fi or Fe-Fe) is the most important. I just seem to be able to connect more deeply with other Fi-users, whereas Fe-type crowd theres always more miscommunications and shenanigans.
And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth
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08-16-2009, 04:42 PM #309
Jock, don't be afraid to tell your girl what you need. You two have been together for a long time and I'm sure she loves you very much, so if you make a respectful case for what you need/want, why would she not listen? I would want to know if you were unhappy.
Or is it merely the specter of what might happen, like "awful-izing" - that prevents you from speaking up?
Thank you all for your responses. Very insightful to say the least, and sympathetic.eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
Neutral Good
EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
Inquistive/Limbic
AIS Holland code
Researcher: VDI-P
Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious
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08-16-2009, 05:26 PM #310
+1.
Admittedly, high energy "exergonic" people (and extroverts generally) are totally not my speed, and I don't imagine they would find me sufficiently emotionally available for them.
Just because someone is incompatible with you doesn't mean there's something wrong with them such that you need to "teach" them how to navigate the emotional waters. And the most emotionally immature persons I've known were two very expressive ENFs who would just scorch you with their uncontrolled, manipulative (to me) and highly selfish emotional expressiveness. They probably see that as something desirable. I do not. Nor do I want to be taught to be that way.
I've never dated a male ENFJ, so I have no idea how INTP/ENFJ would play out in a relationship. I do have several female ENFJ friends, and as far as I can tell, I'm the one they call when they do need to vent without being judged.Ti (43); Ne (41.8); Te (33.7); Fi (30.5); Ni (27.5); Se (24.7); Si (21.5); Fe (17.3)
The More You Know the Less You Need. - Aboriginal Saying
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