[MBTI General] Personality Type Growth--I need some help understanding it a bit.

[SearchingforPeace]

At a recent family reunion, I introduced the concept of MBTI and tested most of my wife's family. The results were interesting and provided a lot of fun and opportunities for connection.

But I was left with a huge question: what really is personality growth over a lifetime. Since our type is formed when we are young(or earlier), what is our real type if we acted one way for half a life and another way for the rest of your life?

I put forth my mother-in-law as my exhibit.

My 70 year-old mother-in-law tested out as an ISFP, which fits her very well by both her own assessment and mine.

However, from all reports I have received for 20 years, mostly from older relatives, she was very different until about 45. She was domineering and controlling and angry. Moreover, I have been told my wife's personality is a mirror for her younger mother's personality (for more info on that note, though unpleasant, see http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/member-blogs/77092-searching-peace.html).

My MIL had a midlife mellowing and became calm and loving and accepting and relaxed, enjoying gardening, sewing, and reading. In fact, I have rarely seen her angry at all and not very organized during the same time frame, so different from every report I have received from a large number of her older relatives.

Her own mother was high-strung until she died, a true fireball of a personality, whose joy in life was to push the buttons of those around her, and who was a wild partier well into her 60s.

Her own father was a nominally jovial man, hiding the soul of a troll, a man who raped his own teenage daughter(my MIL), as well as boys and girls likely in hundreds.

Her husband appeared to be an EFSP and resembled her father in personality, and had numerous affairs and molested their daughter, my wife.

So my ultimate question is this: is my MIL just a ESTJ that mellowed with age, or is she an ISFP that adopted force and control as tools to cope with childhood, only overcoming such at middle age?

I know many other older people that have also experienced substantial change around midlife, so I hope a few of you might help understand this issue.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Since no one else commented, I guess I can discuss where I am at on this subject.

I know maturity brings in more functions, so a ISFP, ESFP, INTJ, and ENTJ will all resemble each other is some way as their tertiary and inferior functions develop.

I have an ENFP friend who tells me how she and her ISTJ boyfriend are growing more similar as time goes on.

In my own life, I tried to suppress my Fe due to childhood emotional trauma, so I only recently started to use it consciously. In functions test, my Fi tests stronger and I have strong internal values and rarely look elsewhere for values. But I am definitely a Fe user. My feelings are primarily focused outwards. Likewise, my Ni and Ne are extremely well developed, so I don't reflect normal maturity patterns.

Sure, I can get all Ti way too often and think myself into a world of trouble. Se is still pretty random and feeds me such nice clues to others.

I may be completely wrong, but I believe my MIL was always a ISFP, but childhood abuse and spousal neglect forced her into becoming a controlling and judgmental person. At middle age, she was able to shed most of that, accepting others for who they are and accepting herself, finally.

I would welcome other's thoughts on this, but will keep posting as I think about it more.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Ok, still hoping for others to jump in with guidance, but some further thoughts.

At 39, my MIL gave birth to her last child had a hysterectomy.

Obviously, the immediate push to a menopausal state impacted her emotional nature, at least somewhat.

With the sudden absence of previously regular hormones, did her personality change? Could that account for her becoming the ISFP in full that she truly is?

Again, I will keep exploring this alone if no one joins in, but I think it is an interesting issue that I would love to understand better.

 

[Duffy]

Her own mother was high-strung until she died, a true fireball of a personality, whose joy in life was to push the buttons of those around her, and who was a wild partier well into her 60s.

Her own father was a nominally jovial man, hiding the soul of a troll, a man who raped his own teenage daughter(my MIL), as well as boys and girls likely in hundreds.

Her husband appeared to be an EFSP and resembled her father in personality, and had numerous affairs and molested their daughter, my wife.

Have you done anything about this?

I don't the know the answer to your question.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Have you done anything about this?

He recently passed and then I finally accepted the reality I had not admitted for years. You can read about the whole story in my blog.

 

[Seymour]

First, typology doesn't explain everything. People can work through their psychological issues as they age. Even if people aren't actively trying to work through their issues, some pretty serious disorders (like Borderline Personality Disorder) tend to get better on their own, even without treatment.

Also, if one has successfully passed the milestones of middle age (whether through luck or effort) then the stakes become smaller. One doesn't have to strive to prove oneself, and one's kids (if one has them) are hopefully on their way toward becoming independent and successful. So while life may not be easy, there may be a more leisurely and relaxed attitude that accompanies the easing of responsibilities. The controlling parent may turn into the permissive grandparent, just as the stereotypes suggest.

Finally, when one looks at Big Five studies on traits over the lifespan, people tend to become more Introverted and Agreeable (if less Open) as they age. Also, Conscientiousness peaks in middle age. So, it makes some sense that your mother-in-law would mellow as she gets older, just looking at Big Five traits. (Keep in mind that these studies can't entirely rule out cohort effects given the data currently available, so it may be decades before we know for sure.)

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Thanks Seymour.

First, typology doesn't explain everything. People can work through their psychological issues as they age. Even if people aren't actively trying to work through their issues, some pretty serious disorders (like Borderline Personality Disorder) tend to get better on their own, even without treatment.

Interesting. I had no idea these things might work themselves out over time. Since I have some family members with various personality disorders that refuse therapy, I was wondering how they would progress. On that point, I wonder if my MIL did not develop borderline personality disorder following her rape by her father (I have read that is not unusual for molestation victims), which gradually improved over time.

Also, if one has successfully passed the milestones of middle age (whether through luck or effort) then the stakes become smaller. One doesn't have to strive to prove oneself, and one's kids (if one has them) are hopefully on their way toward becoming independent and successful. So while life may not be easy, there may be a more leisurely and relaxed attitude that accompanies the easing of responsibilities. The controlling parent may turn into the permissive grandparent, just as the stereotypes suggest.

Finally, when one looks at Big Five studies on traits over the lifespan, people tend to become more Introverted and Agreeable (if less Open) as they age. Also, Conscientiousness peaks in middle age. So, it makes some sense that your mother-in-law would mellow as she gets older, just looking at Big Five traits. (Keep in mind that these studies can't entirely rule out cohort effects given the data currently available, so it may be decades before we know for sure.)

I get the mellowing of my MIL, though her own mother never mellowed.

Since neuroscience has confirmed the truth of typology (at least in general), I was hoping to get a better understanding of how aging impacted type. After all, I am middle-aged myself and have a lot of middle-aged family members in various positions of development.

One friend well versed in typology told me she really is just a mature ESTJ, but that doesn't seem to feel right. If she is, she lost any idea of efficiency, if she ever had it.

Thanks for posting.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

The more I read up on victims of CSA, the more I start thinking MIL's anger and control issues fully resorted from her molestation, not type.

From what I read, many CSA victims develop borderline personality disorder and/or PTSD.

Many CSA victims use anger to control their environment. As they heal, sometimes without therapy, their anger declines, as well as their need to control.

So an abused ISFP might well be controlling.

There is also a hereditary component to borderline PD, per what I read. As such, my wife's issues would be in line, given her mother's issues.

 

[cascadeco]

^ I should think so. It's why mbti does not and cannot cover a huge scope of personality and behaviors and defenses. If anything, these other elements that impact ones sense of self have a much more profound effect than mbti. Or, an equal weight. mbti is just the icing on the cake. It's why you can't readily type someone who is suffering from a mental disorder or trauma; the disorder is going to dominate a lot of the person.

 

[Seymour]

The more I read up on victims of CSA, the more I start thinking MIL's anger and control issues fully resorted from her molestation, not type.

From what I read, many CSA victims develop borderline personality disorder and/or PTSD.

Many CSA victims use anger to control their environment. As they heal, sometimes without therapy, their anger declines, as well as their need to control.

So an abused ISFP might well be controlling.

There is also a hereditary component to borderline PD, per what I read. As such, my wife's issues would be in line, given her mother's issues.

That makes sense to me. My mom's mom definitely had Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), which left my mom with issues of her own (serious depression being one of them). My one-time fiancé also had BPD, and for a while I was a real BPD magnet. Being a good listener, emotionally tuned in, and having plenty of shame/guilt buttons to press made me very attractive to them. I eventually learned to spot the signs and impose strict limits, but only after getting emotionally burned a few times.

If your wife is suffered from BPD (or more limited "pockets" of BPD), I'd recommend Stop Walking on Eggshells. I think it does a good job of being practical and not overly blaming. People with BPD actively suffer (they aren't just being manipulative or mean out of spite), and there's a fine line to walk if one is in a relationship with someone with BPD (whether it's as spouse, sibling, parent, child, friend, or whatever).

If not, I thought I'd mention the type dynamic theory of functions as one ages (even if I don't subscribe to it, myself). The theory is that one's type is the result of a "wound on the psyche," and part of the process of maturation is the integration of opposites. The theory is that as one ages, ones brings in one's opposite functions and integrates them into one's self. The theory states that first one develops the dominant, then the auxiliary, then the tertiary. There are some who argue that it's important for the inferior (at least) to stay mostly unconscious, so the unconscious has a way to intervene and communicate when the conscious functions's strategies aren't working. Others posit that the inferior is eventually integrated.

While I'm not opposed to such theories, it's important to note that there's no actual empirical data to back such things up at this point. Maybe time will provide such, but I remain skeptical.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

That makes sense to me. My mom's mom definitely had Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), which left my mom with issues of her own (serious depression being one of them). My one-time fiancé also had BPD, and for a while I was a real BPD magnet. Being a good listener, emotionally tuned in, and having plenty of shame/guilt buttons to press made me very attractive to them. I eventually learned to spot the signs and impose strict limits, but only after getting emotionally burned a few times.

If your wife is suffered from BPD (or more limited "pockets" of BPD), I'd recommend Stop Walking on Eggshells. I think it does a good job of being practical and not overly blaming. People with BPD actively suffer (they aren't just being manipulative or mean out of spite), and there's a fine line to walk if one is in a relationship with someone with BPD (whether it's as spouse, sibling, parent, child, friend, or whatever).

If not, I thought I'd mention the type dynamic theory of functions as one ages (even if I don't subscribe to it, myself). The theory is that one's type is the result of a "wound on the psyche," and part of the process of maturation is the integration of opposites. The theory is that as one ages, ones brings in one's opposite functions and integrates them into one's self. The theory states that first one develops the dominant, then the auxiliary, then the tertiary. There are some who argue that it's important for the inferior (at least) to stay mostly unconscious, so the unconscious has a way to intervene and communicate when the conscious functions' strategies aren't working. Others posit that the inferior is eventually integrated.

While I'm not opposed to such theories, it's important to note that there's no actual empirical data to back such things up at this point. Maybe time will provide such, but I remain skeptical.

Thanks again Seymour. Starting to make sense now. I will definitely look that book up.