The real meaning behing S/N dichotonomy descriptions.

[Kensei]

This is what one would usually find in S/N descriptions
Ns-innovative, big picture thinking, future oriented, imaginative.
Ss- practical, detailed, here and now, realistic.

So basically this is saying that sensors are boring, uncreative stuffies and that intuitives are the only ones that invent and change, and this is what causes much confusion among actual sensing types.

Here's what I think the real gist behind these traits are based on all the research I've done( I will not give links, so if you ask, you are probably N biased)

Innovative vs practical: by this trait opposition, they are talking about creating from scratch vs tweaking. Intutives prefer their inventions to be from scratch, seeing that as a more interesting place to start. Sensing types will often be drained by the abstract thinking that requires from scratch inventions. This does not mean sensors aren't creative, and yes they do use tried and true methods, but when they use these preinvented methods, they are more often tweaking or editing these tried and true methods and coming up with a whole new method through experimentations. So yes, intuitives invent, but sensors do too, just by using a tangible concrete base.

Big picture vs details: this is what makes intuitives look like the people that see beyond the present data and sensors just superficial dicks. Sensors see beyond information, they will just be focused on the near future rather than the overall vision. Think of the strategist and the hero. The hero will focus on one task, like blowing up the main villian's castle to stop the invasion of the good castle. The strategist will be more focused on the overall vision of bringing good to the land and will work in leaps going wherever their inspiration takes them rather than completing one individual task at a time like the hero would.

Future vs here and now: again, another thing assuming that intuitives see ahead and sensors are braindead when it comes to anything but the facts. Future oriented just means the person lives in the far future attending the needs of their future visions while the sensor lives in the present, attending to what needs to be done currently. Not that intuitives don't attend to present needs, but they will work best when focusing on the future. Eg. A sensor will stock up food to prepare for a battle after hearig the news of invasion. An inutuitive will stock up food to prepare for an anticipated invasion a week from now. Basically a sensor attends to what is known and an intuitive attends to what is anticipated if there isn't a known problem at hand.

Imaginative vs realistic: this is the one thing that crushes anyone's thoughts on identifying as a sensor, the fact that sensors have no imagination. Everyone has an imagination. Without imagination, there is no brain function when it comes to anything besides reality. Sensors have what is called a concrete imagination. Their imagination will be stimulated by something real rather than being stimulated by a concept. Eg. A sensor will imagine what it would be like to date a girl and adventure with her after observing her with his senses. An intuitive will be more apt the imagine soaring through space after discussing concepts in physics. It all depends on what triggers your imagination, leaving the definition of imaginative in mbti being one who imagines things rooted from that which cannot be perceived by
the senses.

Hope you liked my insights, and I reaize that I may be wrong, but if ypu believe me to be wrong please explain to me how I am wrong using logical non-type bias points. I will be open to any corrections. Also I hope that sensors that have been confused will finally understand themselves deeply after reading this. Thanks.

 

[Xann]

I thought this was great, and that this site needs more stuff like this. People really need to be reminded that human intelligence varies to a huge degree outside the boundaries of personality type, and quite obvious correlations can be made between how high and low levels of intelligence will manifest in different people regardless of their MBTI, rather than simply lumping low and high intelligence behaviors into the same MBTI categories. My only complaint is that you made the sensor concrete imagination only about dating a girl and left the intuitive imagination pondering physics, while you could have used a metaphor that explains how they could both ponder a particular aspect of physics in a different way.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Intutives prefer their inventions to be from scratch, seeing that as a more interesting place to start.

That might be more Ni .... as an Ne person, I feel like I am jumping off of "real" things and putting together solutions that are maybe innovative but not unimagined. That's kind of a personal strength - problem-solving by looking at real things in a kind of novel way.

Sensors see beyond information, they will just be focused on the near future rather than the overall vision.

Interesting - again, I think that's a bit more Ni biased, but I like your ideas here.

Imaginative vs realistic: this is the one thing that crushes anyone's thoughts on identifying as a sensor, the fact that sensors have no imagination.

My husband, as an ESTJ, prefers to be called realistic. Imaginative sounds airy-fairy and not very results-focussed to him. So, how one parses any given word is kind of based on your interpretive perspective of the value or connotation of that word choice.

 

[Kensei]

Lol yeah maybe I should'be explaimed it more. An intuitive certainly can imagine girls, it'll just be stimulated by something intanglible like the concept in love or infatuation. A sensor pondering physics would be thinking about tangible stuff such as atoms rather than equations.

I thought this was great, and that this site needs more stuff like this. People really need to be reminded that human intelligence varies to a huge degree outside the boundaries of personality type, and quite obvious correlations can be made between how high and low levels of intelligence will manifest in different people regardless of their MBTI, rather than simply lumping low and high intelligence behaviors into the same MBTI categories. My only complaint is that you made the sensor concrete imagination only about dating a girl and left the intuitive imagination pondering physics, while you could have used a metaphor that explains how they could both ponder a particular aspect of physics in a different way.

 

[Kensei]

Sure Ne ponders off of real things, but everyone uses their senses. By real things, you are probably talking about the concept associated with the real things. Ne makes connections, it is on the fine line between tangible and intangible, which means it will think about a real thing, connect something completely different to it forming a new thing, so yes Ne does a little editing like any sensor would do, but I still think connections are pretty much from scratch. A sensor would be a critical thinker and try to come up with possible creations rooted from one thing, Ne would make connections and combinations techically unrelated to the orgial start. Amd as for your husband, he may not view it as imagination, he may view it as critical thinking, especially being an STJ. Imagination can be anything made up, your husband may just e one of the more grounded sensors that don't place value in random pondering. SJs can be pretty unopen to anything that doesn't make results. Imagination is basically thinking, anything involving creation of future images, and for all sensors, this is stimulated by tangible things like the car in front of one. Intuitivesdo think in tangibles, but they will be more interested in imagining what impression they would get from a future event rather than what or future would be like. For sensors, the stimulation is a what or who, for intuitives the stimulation is a how or why.

That might be more Ni .... as an Ne person, I feel like I am jumping off of "real" things and putting together solutions that are maybe innovative but not unimagined. That's kind of a personal strength - problem-solving by looking at real things in a kind of novel way.



Interesting - again, I think that's a bit more Ni biased, but I like your ideas here.



My husband, as an ESTJ, prefers to be called realistic. Imaginative sounds airy-fairy and not very results-focussed to him. So, how one parses any given word is kind of based on your interpretive perspective of the value or connotation of that word choice.

 

[Kensei]

That might be more Ni .... as an Ne person, I feel like I am jumping off of "real" things and putting together solutions that are maybe innovative but not unimagined. That's kind of a personal strength - problem-solving by looking at real things in a kind of novel way.



Interesting - again, I think that's a bit more Ni biased, but I like your ideas here.



My husband, as an ESTJ, prefers to be called realistic. Imaginative sounds airy-fairy and not very results-focussed to him. So, how one parses any given word is kind of based on your interpretive perspective of the value or connotation of that word choice.

Sorry to double post, but I just had to say something else. I think what you ar describing as imagination is more of a P preference thN an N. P's are random processors that prefer to ponder and make stuff up as they go along. What your husband describes as airy fairy is not imagination itself, but random thinking associated with imagination. I've actually noticed that a lot of NJs place little value in "imagination" as it is interpreted, but SPs will ponder and hate to be called unimaginative because they think it makes them sound boring due to their preference for random processing rather than controlled thinking. Imagination is not airy fairy, it is basic creative thinking that anyone can have, it's just that it is associated with N behavior when really what is perceived as imagination often sounds very P ish or random to me.

 

[miss fortune]

I do ponder physics... like if there were a space mob if dropping bodies into black holes would be a viable means of destroying the evidence or if black holes have even more tricks up their sleeves

I would say that in part the difference would be temporally related (as in, when faced by an obstacle I am more likely to just figure out a way to make it work right now and get on with it instead of designing some long range solution that would prevent it from breaking again in a few weeks... when it breaks again then I'll fix it again) and another part is how information is gathered for processing... with a sensor it would be information pertained by the senses primarily instead of information from a thread of theory. to explain that better- I'm more comfortable with a theory after I've actually tested it out and have seen exactly how it works... there are some people who are content if it is theoretically sound. I could not feel right saying that it was a good theory if I wasn't completely sure that it worked by testing it.

everybody uses both thinking and intuitive functions, we just preferentially lean towards more frequently feeling comfortable with one or the other

 

[Kensei]

Thank you for your insights. Are you a sensor? You don't have a type posted, but you sound like a very intelligent and distinguished sensor.

I do ponder physics... like if there were a space mob if dropping bodies into black holes would be a viable means of destroying the evidence or if black holes have even more tricks up their sleeves

I would say that in part the difference would be temporally related (as in, when faced by an obstacle I am more likely to just figure out a way to make it work right now and get on with it instead of designing some long range solution that would prevent it from breaking again in a few weeks... when it breaks again then I'll fix it again) and another part is how information is gathered for processing... with a sensor it would be information pertained by the senses primarily instead of information from a thread of theory. to explain that better- I'm more comfortable with a theory after I've actually tested it out and have seen exactly how it works... there are some people who are content if it is theoretically sound. I could not feel right saying that it was a good theory if I wasn't completely sure that it worked by testing it.

everybody uses both thinking and intuitive functions, we just preferentially lean towards more frequently feeling comfortable with one or the other

 

[miss fortune]

Thank you for your insights. Are you a sensor? You don't have a type posted, but you sound like a very intelligent and distinguished sensor.

I am a sensor

leaving things like type as a mystery to everyone somehow pleases me, which is why I don't have a type down

 

[indra]

Even Jung thought N types were "uncommonly important" to the course of history.

I've come to terms with the way things are.

 

[fetus]

I am a sensor

leaving things like type as a mystery to everyone somehow pleases me, which is why I don't have a type down

xSTP?

 

[Kensei]

Yeah I can see where you're coming from. A lot of people are afraid to admit their type because of the stereotypes, and then there's a cunning snake like you that keeps things hidden to confuse people. Lol I'd probably do that too, but the showy part of my personality tempts me to just go like HELL YEAH I'M AN SP BITCHES. In that sense you might be an introvert since you can keep that hidden for so long. An extravert like me would be tempted to show one's type no matter what type one is. I'm sure other extraverts might keep their type hidden for other reasons, but man I admire your persistance in trying to remain a mystery to people.

I am a sensor

leaving things like type as a mystery to everyone somehow pleases me, which is why I don't have a type down

 

[fetus]

Also, this is a great post [MENTION=24567]Kensei[/MENTION] People who hate on Sensors really suck. We need N's and S's in this world to operate best. Without each other, things just wouldn't be the same.

I'm proud of my N--not in a way that puts down S's--but in a way that involves embracing who I am. Though I actually wish I was an S sometimes. And a T, and a J...hell, sometimes I do wish I could be something else for a day. But again, we all need each other to make the world go 'round.

 

[Kensei]

Lol thanks and you should be proud of your N, because your N gives you a unique perspective to offer the world. Myers once said that the types have "gifts differing". Ns offer vision and Ss offer a knack for figuring out how to make those visions a reality. I just think that most function descriptions are very generic and seemingly used by everyone in some way, and the letters descriptions can sometimes use concepts that can be confused for a completely different thing, especially the S/N dichotomy.

Also, this is a great post [MENTION=24567]Kensei[/MENTION] People who hate on Sensors really suck. We need N's and S's in this world to operate best. Without each other, things just wouldn't be the same.

I'm proud of my N--not in a way that puts down S's--but in a way that involves embracing who I am. Though I actually wish I was an S sometimes. And a T, and a J...hell, sometimes I do wish I could be something else for a day. But again, we all need each other to make the world go 'round.

 

[INTP]

N>S = attention focusing habitually to possibilities and sort of looking behind the scenes.
S>N = attentiong focusing habitually more to concrete things that are being sensed rather than more imaginative things like possibilities.

N types also have S and vice versa, but the diference is in the attitudes(habitual ways of doing X). Also because if you do one thing a lot, you get better at it. Its not to say that some people with S preference wouldnt be more fluent and "smart" in using N than some other person with N preference, it just means that he habitually relies on S more than N.

Everything else is derived from this difference, and most of the stuff in type profiles on the interwebs is just some crap based on stereotypes and misconceptions about type. Ofc there are some good ones around too, but creating a profile of a type doesent tell what the type is really about since type is not about stereotypical traits.

 

[miss fortune]

Yeah I can see where you're coming from. A lot of people are afraid to admit their type because of the stereotypes, and then there's a cunning snake like you that keeps things hidden to confuse people. Lol I'd probably do that too, but the showy part of my personality tempts me to just go like HELL YEAH I'M AN SP BITCHES. In that sense you might be an introvert since you can keep that hidden for so long. An extravert like me would be tempted to show one's type no matter what type one is. I'm sure other extraverts might keep their type hidden for other reasons, but man I admire your persistance in trying to remain a mystery to people.

I tend to show up in sensor threads and post on such topics... no hiding that from post stalkers I guess

however, I do prefer to be the gatekeeper to my identity

 

[Poki]

Disagree, NTPs tend to get stuck in the trees missing the big picture. STPs see the big picture, but really only care about details when it is needed.

N's like to propogating this whole big picture thing, but Si types which are stI'll N's get stuck on trees.

Difference is that Ns that claim big picture can only see what's in front of them so when they are visionary it's "the big picture" when an S is visionary....wait, your not visionary.

To many people confuse "my picture" with the big picture. If you can't see my picture you just can't see the big picture.

 

[Kensei]

Lol I wasn't stereotyping, I was generalizing, based on what actually happens amond sensors rather than the N's have imagination and S's are superficial deal. I tend to view it more that S's are concrete and N's are abstract, so that way you relate tangible, detailed thinking to S and intangible global thinking to N instead of just relating the ability and value of coming of with possibilities to N and just blatant, shallow processing to S. If this were true, then sensors like Henry Ford and Steve jobs would not have been able to do what they do, they wouldn't have brains. I don't doubt that the average N is smarter than the average S, but I think that sensors can be just as smart as intuitives. I don't disagree with you though, and I'm not debating, I was just voicing my opinion, so don't feel attacked. Thanks for your contribution to the thread anyways.

N>S = attention focusing habitually to possibilities and sort of looking behind the scenes.
S>N = attentiong focusing habitually more to concrete things that are being sensed rather than more imaginative things like possibilities.

N types also have S and vice versa, but the diference is in the attitudes(habitual ways of doing X). Also because if you do one thing a lot, you get better at it. Its not to say that some people with S preference wouldnt be more fluent and "smart" in using N than some other person with N preference, it just means that he habitually relies on S more than N.

Everything else is derived from this difference, and most of the stuff in type profiles on the interwebs is just some crap based on stereotypes and misconceptions about type. Ofc there are some good ones around too, but creating a profile of a type doesent tell what the type is really about since type is not about stereotypical traits.

 

[INTP]

Lol I wasn't stereotyping, I was..

Who said i was talking about you?