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Mbti is Why, not what.

Kensei

New member
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
Messages
282
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
From all my studying of mbti I have found that mbti type isn't associated with what you do, but why you do it. Some people however still think mbti is a what subject, and thats why a lot of stereotypes arise and a lot of mistypes occur on places like PerC. My point is that thinkers can still cry or do things for the common good, it will just be for a logical reason, as well as not all feelers are crybabies, but they will do everything for a subjective reason. Se users will be creative to have a sensory impact on the outer world or to enjoy the moment and Si will be creative to connect with their past memories( you can usually see it in their art, because their creation will be connected to a past experience in some way). Also, perceivers can be hillariously organized because if they don't, than the authority in charge of them will take away their freedom to adapt, and judgers might be disorganized to adhere to authority and follow a system. My point is, when typing a fictional character, don't judge them by their actions, ask yourself why they did what they did and relate that answer to a function. Many people think batman is F because he was protecting the common good, but a wise person would realize that batman did that mainly to promote justice (Te user) and secondarily to get back at the world for them killing his father (tertiary Fi), batman is not INFJ.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
From all my studying of mbti I have found that mbti type isn't associated with what you do, but why you do it. Some people however still think mbti is a what subject, and thats why a lot of stereotypes arise and a lot of mistypes occur on places like PerC. My point is that thinkers can still cry or do things for the common good, it will just be for a logical reason, as well as not all feelers are crybabies, but they will do everything for a subjective reason. Se users will be creative to have a sensory impact on the outer world or to enjoy the moment and Si will be creative to connect with their past memories( you can usually see it in their art, because their creation will be connected to a past experience in some way). Also, perceivers can be hillariously organized because if they don't, than the authority in charge of them will take away their freedom to adapt, and judgers might be disorganized to adhere to authority and follow a system. My point is, when typing a fictional character, don't judge them by their actions, ask yourself why they did what they did and relate that answer to a function. Many people think batman is F because he was protecting the common good, but a wise person would realize that batman did that mainly to promote justice (Te user) and secondarily to get back at the world for them killing his father (tertiary Fi), batman is not INFJ.

With respect to MBTI, perhaps we should separate out the "do" part. Type is not the best predictor of behavior as there are so many other factors at play. However, it provides insight into how a person thinks which is enormously valuable information. If I can understand a little bit more about how they perceive the world and how they make decisions, it adds an important dimension into understanding them as people. So many issues and conflicts today tie back to our not understanding the thinking and motivations of others. MBTI type provides a window into the thought process. Just today, I had interaction with a couple of folks who literally screamed Te in their communication style - one of them with Ni and the other with Si. Understanding that helps me to understand how they think. I may not be able to predict their future behavior as much as anticipate the types of things they will focus on and how/why. I suppose this helps to make the world more predictable for me which is why that is appealing.

As an aside, it seems like Enneagram provides a more direct window into actual motivations for behavior than MBTI.
 

Kensei

New member
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
Messages
282
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
Yes that is exactly what I mean. Mbti does not tell a person what someone does, but why they want to do that, how they think. Btw the way, you said you had an interaction with two people that have shown a tremendous amount of Te, what can you derive from my communication just based on my posts of this thread? I'm just curious, I ask everyone the same thing, so don't think I am desperate for opinions.
With respect to MBTI, perhaps we should separate out the "do" part. Type is not the best predictor of behavior as there are so many other factors at play. However, it provides insight into how a person thinks which is enormously valuable information. If I can understand a little bit more about how they perceive the world and how they make decisions, it adds an important dimension into understanding them as people. So many issues and conflicts today tie back to our not understanding the thinking and motivations of others. MBTI type provides a window into the thought process. Just today, I had interaction with a couple of folks who literally screamed Te in their communication style - one of them with Ni and the other with Si. Understanding that helps me to understand how they think. I may not be able to predict their future behavior as much as anticipate the types of things they will focus on and how/why. I suppose this helps to make the world more predictable for me which is why that is appealing.

As an aside, it seems like Enneagram provides a more direct window into actual motivations for behavior than MBTI.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Yes that is exactly what I mean. Mbti does not tell a person what someone does, but why they want to do that, how they think. Btw the way, you said you had an interaction with two people that have shown a tremendous amount of Te, what can you derive from my communication just based on my posts of this thread? I'm just curious, I ask everyone the same thing, so don't think I am desperate for opinions.

I don't think I can derive much from them to be honest. I'm just reacting to your insights, which I thought were good.
 

Kensei

New member
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
Messages
282
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
Thank you. I've come along way in the field of mbti and I am proud of myself. 6 months ago I thought Se was about athletic ability and that being an N meant you were creative and insightful and that SJ's were just plain incompetent. I realize now that I was mistaken, and that's probably why I had to change my type multiple times. I've considered ENTJ, ESTP, ENFP, ENTP, and ESFP, switching back and forth between them because I didn't fot into any one box alone. I realize now that mbti isn't a box, but a way to understand your own mind and have better comtrol over yourself and your happiness. I never knew that my constant will do get into fights, do adrenaline pumping activities, and experience the world around me was until I went deeper into the theory. I also wasn't aware that I had intuition until that point either. I used to regard my behavior as what everyone one does in a primitive and apathetic way, but I get it now. I've learned to master myself, now the next step will be mastering my typing skills, which may take years.
I don't think I can derive much from them to be honest. I'm just reacting to your insights, which I thought were good.
 

reckful

New member
Joined
Jul 6, 2013
Messages
656
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5
From all my studying of mbti I have found that mbti type isn't associated with what you do, but why you do it. Some people however still think mbti is a what subject, and thats why a lot of stereotypes arise and a lot of mistypes occur on places like PerC. My point is that thinkers can still cry or do things for the common good, it will just be for a logical reason, as well as not all feelers are crybabies, but they will do everything for a subjective reason. Se users will be creative to have a sensory impact on the outer world or to enjoy the moment and Si will be creative to connect with their past memories( you can usually see it in their art, because their creation will be connected to a past experience in some way). Also, perceivers can be hillariously organized because if they don't, than the authority in charge of them will take away their freedom to adapt, and judgers might be disorganized to adhere to authority and follow a system. My point is, when typing a fictional character, don't judge them by their actions, ask yourself why they did what they did and relate that answer to a function. Many people think batman is F because he was protecting the common good, but a wise person would realize that batman did that mainly to promote justice (Te user) and secondarily to get back at the world for them killing his father (tertiary Fi), batman is not INFJ.

Well, you're correct, on the one hand, that any particular behavior by any particular individual can't reliably be used to determine their type, because as you noted, there are usually a multiplicity of possible motivations and other causes that might be the reason(s) for the behavior — including factors that have nothing to do with the person's type.

But on the other hand, there's no question that various kinds of behavior tend to be more typical of some types than others.

Jung certainly believed in associating behavior and type, and the first spoiler in this post includes several passages in which Jung associates extraversion and introversion with lots of behaviors.

And in fact, in one very significant sense, Jung thought that behavioral results was really what type was about. Jung believed that extraversion and introversion were products of evolution, and had evolved as two opposing psychological orientations for the purpose of producing two different types of people who pursued two opposing survival strategies — i.e., two different sets of behaviors.

Here's part of what Jung said:

Jung said:
There are in nature two fundamentally different modes of adaptation which ensure the continued existence of the living organism. The one consists of a high rate of fertility, with low powers of defense and short duration of life for the single individual; the other consists in equipping the individual with numerous means of self-preservation plus a low fertility rate. This biological difference, it seems to me, is not merely analogous to, but the actual foundation of, our two psychological modes of adaptation. ... [T]he peculiar nature of the extravert constantly urges him to expend and propagate himself in every way, while the tendency of the introvert is to defend himself against all demands from outside, to conserve his energy by withdrawing it from objects, thereby consolidating his own position. Blake's intuition did not err when he described the two classes of men as "prolific" and "devouring."

Evolution results from actual reproductive success — and that's a product of how the organism behaves. So as Jung saw it, introversion didn't evolve because Mother Nature wanted a substantial chunk of the human race to think a certain way. Introversion evolved because Mother Nature wanted a substantial chunk of the human race to act a certain way. And so it's hardly surprising that Psychological Types is full of vivid descriptions of many ways Jung said introverts and extraverts (not to mention T's and F's, and S's and N's) tended to differ in their behaviors.
 

á´…eparted

passages
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
People latch onto the "what" because it's mentally easier to organize and observe. That and humans love to put each other into a boxes.

The "why" is much less exciting at first blush, and stands out less when discussing it.
 

Kensei

New member
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
Messages
282
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
Yes I understand that certain behaviors are more common in certain types, its just that when you base someome's typing off of that, it's usually wrong. I was in the same boat, I was typing people that could trick the devil automatically as ENTP and typing dumb jocks as ESTP. Really though, it could be the other way around, the ESTP could be very intelligent in his concrete way and the ENTP could be dumb and make pointless and useless connections and theories just for the intellectual stimulation, but yes ENTPs are usually smarter than ESTPs.
Well, you're correct, on the one hand, that any particular behavior by any particular individual can't reliably be used to determine their type, because as you noted, there are usually a multiplicity of possible motivations and other causes that might be the reason(s) for the behavior — including factors that have nothing to do with the person's type.

But on the other hand, there's no question that various kinds of behavior tend to be more typical of some types than others.

Jung certainly believed in associating behavior and type, and the first spoiler in this post includes several passages in which Jung associates extraversion and introversion with lots of behaviors.

And in fact, in one very significant sense, Jung thought that behavioral results was really what type was about. Jung believed that extraversion and introversion were products of evolution, and had evolved as two opposing psychological orientations for the purpose of producing two different types of people who pursued two opposing survival strategies — i.e., two different sets of behaviors.

Here's part of what Jung said:



Evolution results from actual reproductive success — and that's a product of how the organism behaves. So as Jung saw it, introversion didn't evolve because Mother Nature wanted a substantial chunk of the human race to think a certain way. Introversion evolved because Mother Nature wanted a substantial chunk of the human race to act a certain way. And so it's hardly surprising that Psychological Types is full of vivid descriptions of many ways Jung said introverts and extraverts (not to mention T's and F's, and S's and N's) tended to differ in their behaviors.
 

RandomINTP

Injustice Needs To stoP
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
388
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
MBTI isn't why. MBTI is how.
 

á´…eparted

passages
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Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
MBTI isn't why. MBTI is how.

No, why is the closest to what it does. How isn't entirely wrong, but it frequently is. Reason being, how often involves external manifestations of cognitive functions, which is inconsistent and can't be used to generalize between types.
 

RandomINTP

Injustice Needs To stoP
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
388
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
No, why is the closest to what it does. How isn't entirely wrong, but it frequently is. Reason being, how often involves external manifestations of cognitive functions, which is inconsistent and can't be used to generalize between types.

I think you don't get my point.

How do we percieve? With Ni, Ne, Si or Se.
How do we judge? With Ti, Te, Fi or Fe.

The only reason MBTI even exists is in order to understand how different people work.

As much as it hurts saying this, there is no why. Go up to a perciever, and ask him why he is scatterbrained. I'll assure you, you won't get a real reason.

Why do some people think logical? Because it makes sense.
Why do other people not think but rather feel? Because instincts, that's why.

There isn't any real purpose why you and me were born. Your parents simply had sex, and then waited for nine months. Now you might say "because love", but why do we love? Why do we have emotions? Love is for reproduction, so we can preserve the species, but there is no definite answer to that.

"Why" is a question so complicated, us humans can't comprehend it, even with an IQ over 200.

Before I get off topic, I'll turn right and get to my point.
Carl Jung, Myers and Briggs, etc. wanted to understand how the human mind works, and that's why MBTI exists.
You, for example, are an ENFJ, because of how you think.
If it was about "why" you think, I have an absolute answer for you. You think because you exist.
"I think, therefore I am." --René Descartes
 
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